Creation vs. Evolution

[gcthomas]

Whether it be semantic information or not, the information can only degrade with noise.

To discuss semantic information, you have to first describe how 'meaning' is to be measured, and as far as I can recall, you have never done that. So your comment is meaningless. The Shannon measure of information generally increases with the addition of the noise entropy, as your reference to Weaver showed and I said a long time ago. That it doesn't match your needs is unfortunate, but there is a reason why most YECs avoid defining which sort of information measure they are using.

The semantic meaning of changes in DNA can be defined in terms of whether it increases or decreases the chances of success for the specific species/organism/gene. In which case those mutations that increase survival chances have more value to the species/organism/gene, implying that the information in that genome has improved for the environment in which it finds itself.

The Shannon information content of DNA is only if interest in a technical sense, since the amount of Shannon information doesn't indicate anything important about an organism (since the genome sizes of successful species varies much more that you'd expect.)

Are you ever going to get to your point, clearly and precisely? I'g guess no, since you've picked up Stripe's deceitful tactic of pretending to have answered difficult questions in a previous, yet unidentified, post even when it is not true.

 

[6days]

The Shannon information content of DNA is only if interest in a technical sense, since the amount of Shannon information doesn't indicate anything important about an organism (since the genome sizes of successful species varies much more that you'd expect.).

I don't think Yorzick is saying that its only a matter of the amount of info?.. although i haven't followed.
But as to your point...
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/G/GenomeSizes.html

 

[gcthomas]

I don't think Yorzick is saying that its only a matter of the amount of info?.. although i haven't followed.
But as to your point...
http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/G/GenomeSizes.html

Thanks 6days, your link supports my comments about gene duplication and insertions. :up:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Dear tudorturtl,

Thanks for the information. Yes, the way in which you can tell a true prophet is hearing what he has to say, and if the things comes to pass, you will know it is from the Lord God. I've done well all my life, except I made a couple mistakes. Well, I've got to go and head for the bed. I will be back tonight and answer everyone's posts. Thanks!!

Much Love, In Christ,

Michael

 

[6days]

Thanks 6days, your link supports my comments about gene duplication and insertions. :up:

it supports your point that size doesn't matter. The whisk fern has a huge genome but duplication adds no meaningful info. . And, quite possibly it supports Yorzicks point about noise.
There is no mechanism that can add meaningful info.

 

[alwight]

it supports your point that size doesn't matter. The whisk fern has a huge genome but duplication adds no meaningful info. . And, quite possibly it supports Yorzicks point about noise.
There is no mechanism that can add meaningful info.

Nobody has said that any added information would have to be meaningful off the bat, only that information can be added which could mutate.
Increasing information in a fern DNA which uses a simple fractal construction and repetition is very limited in possible sophistication and what could physically develop. Perhaps it has simply acquired added genetic code that actually is "Junk DNA"?:think:

 

[Jonahdog]

it supports your point that size doesn't matter. The whisk fern has a huge genome but duplication adds no meaningful info. . And, quite possibly it supports Yorzicks point about noise.
There is no mechanism that can add meaningful info.

and 6 days knows this based on an extensive review of the scientific literature, actual discussions with real scientists and of course The Bible.

 

[gcthomas]

Nobody has said that any added information would have to be meaningful off the bat, only that information can be added which could mutate.
Increasing information in a fern DNA which uses a simple fractal construction and repetition is very limited in possible sophistication and what could physically develop. Perhaps it has simply acquired added genetic code that actually is "Junk DNA"?:think:

I'm waiting for them to define what they mean by 'meaningful' or 'useful' information. They do nothing but squirm when asked — any discussion about information syntactic meaning must include a description of how the semantics bestows meaning. But the wriggling continues …

 

[MichaelCadry]

First of all we've already covered multiple times the problem of treating belief as a popularity contest. Just because more people believe something doesn't make it more true.

Furthermore I'm not sure it's fair to imply that 1.1 BILLION people is small...
There are 8.4 million people living in New York, that's not even including those who travel there for work or tourism yet. Is it really so implausible that out of those millions 1 other might ask the same thing as you around the same time?

Dear Tyrathca,

Who are you joking? There are a 2.1 billion Christians who believe in God and Jesus Christ, by far more than those who are atheists. So you think out of 2 Billion people, that one of them is going to ask God for 7 inches of snow a couple days beforehand?? C'mon!! Even if they did hope it would snow that day, they would not have asked for 7 inches specifically!

And here you have just admitted that your method of divining god's will is unreliable, since in the example you basically say that god inadvertently answered the other person wrong. He makes a snow storm to answer you which the other person would also see and naturally think it was god answering them (since how are they to know that a "prophet" has taken precedent).

Where are you coming FROM? God told me to write the reporter and tell him that He would bring 7" of snow upon his building, so HE/the reporter would believe that God was really with me. You are grasping at straws with your errant rhetoric.

By the way if you are a prophet then why do you need to rely on snow storms for god to answer you? I thought prophets were meant to have a direct line to god's will not this crude method (smoke signals are a more effective form of communication than this!).
Actually I think that most people believe at least one thing stupid. You agree with me by the way since (I presume from the way you talk about them) you think non-christian beliefs are stupid. Most people in the world are not Christian so therefore....
So I'm meant to ignore something huge like that and focus only on when you correctly guessed the snow once? And how many times have you guessed snow fall or made other predictions before you got it right that time?

The snow was for the reporter's sake, not mine. I already believe in Him. I don't think anyone is 'stupid.' I try not to use that word. I just believe they are errant. There are a lot of Christians in this world. How many pure atheists? I did not 'guess' when the snow would fall. The Lord told me what He would do or put it in my heart to ask for it.

I don't need to RELY on snow storms. That is what God spoke to me and told me He would do. It put an awful scare in the reporter and I got a 3-hour interview from him because of the snow. So it worked just fine, in that respect. You are nuts with your smoke signals.

If you make enough predictions some of them will turn out to be right eventually due to just random chance.
If you're a prophet with a direct line to god then no you really aren't allowed a few mistakes especially about the major stuff only you are meant to be able to predict. You're meant to be held to a higher standard than a random dude guessing. And it is disingenuous of you to put forward one minor prediction as evidence while not mentioning your more major predictions (because they failed).

A proper test of anything is to judge all it's success AND it's failures, if you only ever measure the successes you get a very skewed view. In your case we should look at ALL of your predictions and then judge whether you are actually any good at them.

You do know what you can do, right? If you think I will never make a mistake, even though I am a witness/prophet, you are nuts. How is a person supposed to never be wrong? No, not even a prophet is able to do that.

I'm sure you can scan a copy to PDF (since you can scan to print) and then I'm sure you can upload it to some hosting site. If you're not sure how to do those things 1. read your printers instruction manual 2. Google it.
Failing that take a digital photo of it.
I'm fairly sure dropbox (free) would suit your needs for file sharing. If you can at least get a digital copy of it though I can find some means for you to share it provided you can put an attachment on an email.

Failing all that surely you can ask god for some help?

I'll see what happens. Since they have updated this site, I have no idea what I can do successfully. I'm doing my best. I presently have no idea how to upload an image to this TOL website.

Can you at least give the details of the article/s? Perhaps they put their stuff online for us anyway.

I will wait until I am ready to post a .pdf of both my letter to the reporter and then, also, my copy of the news article in the New York Post.

Sorry but not going to happen, regardless of you sending me your address. Doing so would basically break every rule I have about my personal information on the internet. My private information does not get shared to anyone online except if I already know them or it is a financial transaction. Stop asking.

I'm very protective of my anonymity here, I have never shared my name here either (even privately) and I even tend to be vague about my profession (probably unnecessary). So I'm never going to be comfortable with addresses. It's nothing personal.

Don't worry, I will stop asking. What, I have only asked twice, right? It is time saved for myself. I know what has happened in my life, and I am very pleased with quite a lot of it. It has been unbelievable, but true. That's why I don't expect you to believe me. Just see if time's passing proves me correct ... that Jesus' Second Coming is at the doorstep {extremely soon}.

Best Regards,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, If it were meant to be a sign as you seem to think it was then snow falling at a time when snow might reasonably be expected to fall anyway, but then it just isn't such a sign at all.
I realise that you think it was but not for me. If you could perhaps point to a news article where there was some astonishment about snow falling in NYC then that might be a start?

Alwight, the Lord told me 2 days before the snow would actually fall. He told me that the snow would fall within 48 hours of the reporter receiving my letter saying so. So it was all QUITE miraculous!!

I don't disbelieve all of the OT I simply don't understand a literal interpretation and then the mindless adherence of all of it. I have no doubts that much of it was meant to be allegorical or metaphor from the beginning.

It is ALL True, I can assure you. Even Jesus did not say anything was different in the first five books of the Bible, including Genesis. Jesus also quoted from the Bible, from the book of Isaiah. So if the OT was false, He would have let us know. My God is not a liar!! He might be mysterious though!!

That all sounds pretty awful Michael, but despite all this going on, what on earth would be the necessity of a dramatic emergence from clouds? Showbiz?
Planes will fall from the skies?
People will die of thirst?
Some more fortunate people will be Raptured away out of harm's way apparently?
To a place where they can gloat and cheer on God?

Yes alwight, it will be pretty awful. What did you expect? That is would be a joyride? I'm sure most planes will find a safe place to land without Air Traffic Controllers. Six million Jewish people died in the Holocaust. That is quite a stir!! So do you think it would be better at the time of Armageddon? It's gonna be worse, you can bet your life. We will not be up there gloating and cheering on God. We will be up there feeling sad about the things happening on the Earth, but it is necessary and the Will of God. It was all foretold over 2,000 years ago, and it will happen. So much of it has already happened!

And you wonder why I think your idea of God is an awful tyrant who I'd have no wish to spend an eternity with or with such people.

You forget that your wish is His command. If you think that is so bad, then see what burning in fire is like. A picnic, eh? Alwight, you've got to think more clearly. You and others here are in jeopardy of burning in fire, yet you'd rather instead believe that's not as bad as being in Heaven forever and looking down at what is happening on the Earth. It is a bad way to think and you just are not realizing what you are setting yourself up for.

I base what I believe on actual facts and evidence, while I also know that snow falls regularly in NYC, but what you believe is a fantasy requiring nothing but a rather bonkers belief.

You can think that I am 'bonkers' all that you want. It isn't going to change what happens to you and others!

Warmest Regards and Cheerio, Mate!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

The problem is Michael, it is not us that is wrong, it is you. Time and time again you have been wrong, wrong, wrong! When you first joined this board Armageddon was going to occur within a few weeks or months at the most, remember? Well guess what? By this coming Summer you will have been here 3 years and there isn't the slightest hint of an Armageddon happening any time soon, nor is there going to be. Yet you still claim you are right and that others here should ditch their rational thinking and believe your nonsense just on your say so. Please get real. It isn't too late. Just snap out of it.

Dear Hedshaker,

What do you mean 'time and time again?' I've made two mistakes. One time believing that there was more than one Adam, and the other time predicting a season that the Lord Jesus would return. That is two mistakes out of all 3 years that I've been here, and years before I was here still that I've made no mistakes. Why do you think I need to 'snap out of it?' Do you realize that over 2 billion Christians also believe that Jesus will return soon?! You are outnumbered, dude. Even Islam believes that Jesus will return soon. That is another 1½ billion people, out of almost 7 billion people on Earth.

And further more, a few inches of snow does not prove the existence of your invisible friend, not by a long chalk.

Wake up Michael, and give it a rest with the childish hell fire threats, no one is buying it.

Relax Michael, no one is going to hell. It's a silly old myth and it's not real.

Hedshaker, have you been able to say that 7" of snow would happen on a certain day? God is definitely with me, despite the few mistakes I've made. He is not with you, since that is what you choose.

You will definitely find out that hell is not a silly old myth. Poor you! That is what Christians believe and there are tons more Christians than there are atheists. I would tell you to 'Relax' too, but I think otherwise!!

Much Love & Cheerio, Hedshaker,

Michael

 

[Hedshaker]

Dear Hedshaker,

What do you mean 'time and time again?' I've made two mistakes. One time believing that there was more than one Adam, and the other time predicting a season that the Lord Jesus would return. That is two mistakes out of all 3 years that I've been here, and years before I was here still that I've made no mistakes. Why do you think I need to 'snap out of it?' Do you realize that over a billion Christians also believe that Jesus will return soon?! You are outnumbered, dude.

You are also wrong when you claim Armageddon will happen soon. Well, sorry but soon as come and gone a thousand times over. Face it Michael, you're not mistaken about anything, you're just plain wrong, about everything.

Hedshaker, have you been able to say that 7" of snow would happen on a certain day? God is definitely with me, despite the few mistakes I've made. He is not with you, since that is what you choose.

And as I say, a few inches of snow means nothing and certainly does not prove your invisible friend is real. What would you have said if it didn't snow that day? Let me guess.... another mistake, right. Pull the other one.

You will definitely find out that hell is not a silly old myth. Poor you! That is what Christians believe and there are tons more Christians than there are atheists. I would tell you to 'Relax' too, but I think otherwise!!

Oh here we go, and we'll be finding out soon, right? Like the soon we've already been waiting years for. Give it a rest Michael, no one is taking you seriously. You've already run out of soons.

And here is something else you've been told time and time again. Truth by popularity is a logical fallacy.... look it up if you don't believe me, it's called argumentum ad populum. It doesn't matter how many Christians there are, they could all be wrong. I sincerely believe they are.

 

[alwight]

Michael, If it were meant to be a sign as you seem to think it was then snow falling at a time when snow might reasonably be expected to fall anyway, but then it just isn't such a sign at all.
I realise that you think it was but not for me. If you could perhaps point to a news article where there was some astonishment about snow falling in NYC then that might be a start?

Alwight, the Lord told me 2 days before the snow would actually fall. He told me that the snow would fall within 48 hours of the reporter receiving my letter saying so. So it was all QUITE miraculous!!

You are simply confusing coincidence with something you want to be true and miraculous. A miracle might be 7 inches of snow falling on the fourth of July, unless the tilt of the Earth had changed.

I don't disbelieve all of the OT I simply don't understand a literal interpretation and then the mindless adherence of all of it. I have no doubts that much of it was meant to be allegorical or metaphor from the beginning.

It is ALL True, I can assure you. Even Jesus did not say anything was different in the first five books of the Bible, including Genesis. Jesus also quoted from the Bible, from the book of Isaiah. So if the OT was false, He would have let us know. My God is not a liar!! He might be mysterious though!!

Except your assurances butter no parsnips Michael while I don't believe you have received any accurate information direct from God, you only believe you have. The OT is the mainly unverifiable writings of ancient middle-eastern people nothing more.

That all sounds pretty awful Michael, but despite all this going on, what on earth would be the necessity of a dramatic emergence from clouds? Showbiz?
Planes will fall from the skies?
People will die of thirst?
Some more fortunate people will be Raptured away out of harm's way apparently?
To a place where they can gloat and cheer on God?

Yes alwight, it will be pretty awful. What did you expect? That is would be a joyride? I'm sure most planes will find a safe place to land without Air Traffic Controllers. Six million Jewish people died in the Holocaust. That is quite a stir!! So do you think it would be better at the time of Armageddon? It's gonna be worse, you can bet your life. We will not be up there gloating and cheering on God. We will be up there feeling sad about the things happening on the Earth, but it is necessary and the Will of God. It was all foretold over 2,000 years ago, and it will happen. So much of it has already happened!

Absolute nonsense, Michael. Please do explain the necessity of such carnage, what rational purpose is served by any of it? Whatever God does is OK simply because God does it? Right and wrong are only what God says it is?

And you wonder why I think your idea of God is an awful tyrant who I'd have no wish to spend an eternity with or with such people.

You forget that your wish is His command. If you think that is so bad, then see what burning in fire is like. A picnic, eh? Alwight, you've got to think more clearly. You and others here are in jeopardy of burning in fire, yet you'd rather instead believe that's not as bad as being in Heaven forever and looking down at what is happening on the Earth. It is a bad way to think and you just are not realizing what you are setting yourself up for.

Come on Michael, do try to be realistic. What is the point of God inflicting terrible eternal pain on people who never asked to called into existence and now apparently can't even die their way out. Think it through for once, that just isn't going to happen, it's ignorant silly dark ages thinking.

I base what I believe on actual facts and evidence, while I also know that snow falls regularly in NYC, but what you believe is a fantasy requiring nothing but a rather bonkers belief.

You can think that I am 'bonkers' all that you want. It isn't going to change what happens to you and others!

Warmest Regards and Cheerio, Mate!!

Michael

You have done nothing to dissuade me that you aren't bonkers Michael while your track record as a prophet sucks, as Americans will say. lain:

 

[Jose Fly]

The whisk fern has a huge genome but duplication adds no meaningful info. . And, quite possibly it supports Yorzicks point about noise.
There is no mechanism that can add meaningful info.

An utterly meaningless argument, given that creationists can't provide a means by which we can tell which of two genomes has more "genetic information".

 

[6days]

I'm waiting for them to define what they mean by 'meaningful' or 'useful' information.

Definition of meaningful: having importance or value.....the opposite of junk.... the opposite of meaningless.

 

[6days]

Nobody has said that any added information would have to be meaningful off the bat, only that information can be added which could mutate.

That poor old whisk fern can't handle any more mutations. It once was a flowering plant more beautiful than orchids, but mutations have reduced it down to an ugly weed.... Not really, but you get the point. Mutations corrupt and destroy.*

Increasing information in a fern DNA which uses a simple fractal construction and repetition is very limited in possible sophistication and what could physically develop.

I understand your point..... however it could be argued that *the "simple construction" is actually beyond the sophistication level of anything man has created.*

Perhaps it has simply acquired added genetic code that actually is "Junk DNA"?

Perhaps. Or, perhaps it really was a beautiful flower a few thousand years ago that has lost information due to mutations.

 

[Crucible]

Full and non-negotiable acceptance of evolution is foolish for a person who believes in the Abrahamic God.

He is a creator god, and there is no implication that He made the universe through a process of evolution. That doesn't mean to say evolution isn't impossible with God, but it does mean that many of Christian's defaulting position to what is essentially an atheist's theory of biological origin is giving more credit than what one should be giving.

 

[Tyrathca]

Where are you coming FROM? God told me to write the reporter and tell him that He would bring 7" of snow upon his building, so HE/the reporter would believe that God was really with me. You are grasping at straws with your errant rhetoric.

When did this happen Michael and who confirmed the 7 inches for you?

I don't need to RELY on snow storms. That is what God spoke to me and told me He would do. It put an awful scare in the reporter and I got a 3-hour interview from him because of the snow. So it worked just fine, in that respect. You are nuts with your smoke signals.

Where is this 3 hour interview? What news agency was it for and when was it published?

You do know what you can do, right? If you think I will never make a mistake, even though I am a witness/prophet, you are nuts. How is a person supposed to never be wrong? No, not even a prophet is able to do that.

You are supposedly in contact with an infallible god, if you are actually reliable at discerning what he says and thinks you shouldn't EVER be wrong about his predictions. I.e. if you claim god said something would happen then it doesn't happen either god isn't infallible or you aren't any good at figuring out what he says. So which is it? Is god sometimes wrong or are you a bad prophet?

Normal regular people can be wrong, but prophets aren't meant to be regular people because if we can't trust one of your predictions how can we trust ANY of them? You're just a regular person not a prophet Michael (that's why you got your predictions wrong)

I'll see what happens. Since they have updated this site, I have no idea what I can do successfully. I'm doing my best. I presently have no idea how to upload an image to this TOL website.

I will wait until I am ready to post a .pdf of both my letter to the reporter and then, also, my copy of the news article in the New York Post.

You're very very light on details Michael, you're not making something up to "impress" us atheists again? Can't you at least share some simple details? What are you afraid we'll find? Or won't find maybe...

Anyway does this mean you have a pdf copy of each already? If so then I will contact you with a method to easily share it (All you need to know is how to use email). I await your confirmation.

Just see if time's passing proves me correct ... that Jesus' Second Coming is at the doorstep {extremely soon}.

What do you mean by EXTREMELY soon, Michael? I'd normally call days to at most weeks extremely soon but that's just me. Surely by saying this you at least have a rough idea (otherwise you shouldn't have even said soon, let alone extremely soon). So what is it? Days, weeks, months, years, decades, centuries, millennia, eons, hell freezes over first?

 

[6days]

The Biblical model is that creatures can rapidly adapt or even speciate.

Via what mechanisms?

I'm glad you asked....

Evidence in the case of evolution versus creation generally better supports the creation account. However most people do not realize that. Most people have never been taught anything about the creation model. So evidence is always interpreted in light of the only model that they have been taught, the evolution model.

One example of the misunderstanding that most evolutionists have is regarding the ability of animals to quickly adapt to changing environments. Especially in the past, evolutionists thought change and speciation was a slow gradual process taking millions of years. The creationist model calls for the ability to rapidly change and even rapid speciation. Adaptation~ speciation usually happens when natural selection, 'selects' information that already exists in the genome. It is a process identified by a creationist (Edward Blyth) before Charles Darwin popularized the notion. It is a process similar to that of breeding animals... artificial selection. Selection is a process that usually eliminates unwanted information... It does not create new information.

As an example Darwin noted different species of finches in the Galapagos Islands. Evolutionists thought that these species have developed over the course of up to 5,000,000 years. That time frame was not based on science, but on the belief that everything evolved from a common ancestor over the course of millions and millions of years. Real science involving observation has now shown that these different species likely developed over the course of a few hundred years.

But even a few hundred years is a very long time. Speciation can happen over the course of just a few generations.... a matter of several years. Sticklefish have speciated / rapidly adapted in a very short time period.

Another example of rapid speciation (creationist model) comes from a study of guppies in Trinidad. One of the researchers speaking from the evolutionary perspective says " ‘The guppies adapted to their new environment in a mere four years—a rate of change some 10,000 to 10 million times faster than the average rates determined from the fossil record" IE. He says that the actual observed rate does not match the evolutionary assumptions of million of years in the fossil record.
science; Predator-free guppies take an evolutionary leap forward (Morell)

Rapid changes are bewildering to evolutionists..... but make perfect sense in the creationist model. God created most things with a very polytypic genome ( programmed variation) . They can change and adapt to various situations because of the wide array of info in their DNA.

Other examples of the ability of animals to adapt quickly:
Fruit flies grow longer wings...
... evolutionists are 'alarmed'
New Scientist 165 wrote:
"Flying out of control—alien species can evolve at an alarming rate"
:Elaine:

Frogs seemingly 'evolve' in 1 generation...
... Evolutionists are surprised.
Science Daily wrote:
"However, the results show that in many cases, species with eggs and tadpoles placed in water seem to give rise directly to species with direct development, without going through the many seemingly intermediate steps that were previously thought to be necessary ":jump:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0910142632.htm

And the best one showing.....
... Evolutionists are unscientific.
Bird species changes fast but without genetic differences (species-specific DNA markers)...
"Rapid phenotypic evolution during incipient speciation in a continental avian radiation" Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
The researchers suggest that the lack of genetic markers may mean the changes in these birds happened so fast that the genes haven't had a chance to catch up yet!!!! :doh:

That's a few of the many examples of adaptation and speciation that support the Biblical model, contradicting the evolutionist model of slow gradual change over millions of years.

 

[Yorzhik]

You are very entitled to that opinion Yorzhik, but since it was only a response to a very stupid question, I'll not be fretting too much.

My question got to the heart of the matter, so I understand why you see that as stupid.

The bottom line was that what is transcribed matches closely to the original information, just as I already said.

But not perfect, thus the correction systems.

That doesn't imply any deliberate design, it implies a natural process that evolved a better transcription process, to fix and repair mistakes, not to combat outside interference from an unpredictable transmission element.

And the eyes glaze over again. Too bad.

But in any case the point is that I made you go looking for a citing and save me the bother of covering any and all such possible details, as per your usual tactic.

:darwinsm: Yeah, you said something wrong just so I could show you how wrong you were. Great plan. Keep doing that.

I learnt from it that no transmission losses are addressed only errors in the initial transcription are fixed.
Presumable a divinely created process would simply be perfect and wouldn't need any such secondary fixing, right? Didn't God create perfection?

So you really think there are no correction systems after mRNA is formed? Are you sure about that? If there is a correction system after mRNA is formed, would that cause you the tiniest bit of pause about your trust in mutation+NS creating all the diversity of life we have on earth today?

I wouldn't trust a YEC like you to give any honest factual answers and will have to be coerced into providing a citing that can be scrutinised, which is what happened here, if you still haven't noticed. Else all we get is more smoke and mirrors.

:darwinsm: Seems like when I get "coerced" I give honest and factual answers. You can admit that at least.

I still don't understand this "fear" you seem to think I carry around, but it's probably nothing compared to the fear of your God and His eternal Lake of Fire that might await you should you ever allow yourself to carry around any rational doubt.

Because just mentioning the word "supernatural" even if the context isn't about it creates a response in you that ignores context completely and launches you into an anti-supernatural diatribe. That kind of irrational response can only be due to anger and hate or fear. Since your posts are so full of unintentional humor, I'm sure it must be fear because anger and hate are depressing to read about.

I tend to believe a scientific consensus, with evidential support that I can check, long before I'll ever believe any of your reality denying bald assertions and creationist claptrap Yorzhik, so shoot me.

Anytime evidential support comes up you scream CONSENSUS! because the evidence is almost always against you. You never believe consensus based on evidential support because you never look at the evidence. If you did look at the evidence you'd discuss it instead of your eyes glazing over when I bring it up.

I don't have any better responses to your supernatural YEC nonsense and I don't need any since you can't and won't accept that any rational scientific consensus just might be accurate, because it feeds you with doubt and fear and your YEC tyrannical God will know right?

I'll believe any consensus supported by the evidence. Bring some evidence and I'll consider it.

But, wow, what a bunch of emotion you have pent up. Tyrannical God? Where does that come from?

Except that it isn't a "messaging system" it is a transcription system as indicated by your own link, or do you want to find a better one now? lain:

So you are saying that DNA is protein? That's demonstrably false.