Creation vs. Evolution

[6days]

Wow, it seems only a YEC can make a statement that is wrong on every possible level, I don't even know where to begin.....

maybe it will help if you first define what YOU consider a religion, since I really can't see humanism being anywhere near it.

Especially "SECULAR" humanism, come on, mate, it's in the bloody title

Then, the part that almost knocked me off the chair, North Korea - a humanist state, like seriously, what have you been smoking lately.....

The phrase "secular humanism" became prominent after it was used in the*United States Supreme Court*case*Torcaso v. Watkins.*In the 1961 decision, Justice*Hugo Black*commented in a footnote, "Among religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the*existence of God*are*Buddhism,*Taoism,Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism, and others."
Wiki

 

[6days]

Gotta love it when creationists post quotes that are almost half a century old ....

Only to show you had fabricated what someone said in order to create a strawman.

 

[Jose Fly]

Nice try 6days. :chuckle:

 

[patrick jane]

You know, I was baffled when they finally revealed the identity of this eyewitness.

Do you happen to know why they don't just refer to him as the "perpetrator" instead?

The Duke -

View attachment 20776

View attachment 20777

 

[iouae]

"The most puzzling event in the history of life on earth is the change from the Mesozoic, the Age of Reptile, to the Age of Mammals. It is as if the curtain were rung down suddenly on the stage where all the leading roles were taken by reptiles, especially dinosaurs, in great numbers and bewildering variety, and rose again immediately to reveal the same setting but an entirely new cast, a cast in which the dinosaurs do not appear at all, other reptiles are supernumeraries, and all the leading parts are played by mammals of sorts barely hinted at in the preceding acts." (George Gaylord Simpson, Life Before Man, New York: Time-Life Books, 1972, p. 42.)

Embarrasingly hard for Evolutionists to explain, very easy for Creationists.
God destroyed one world and created another.

The above is why all evolutionists are closet Creationists.

They cannot explain how completely new flora and fauna seemingly appear out of nowhere. Not one plant or one animal, but whole new biomes.

Ps 104

there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein. [dinosaurs??]

27 These wait all upon thee; that thou mayest give them their meat in due season.

28 That thou givest them they gather: thou openest thine hand, they are filled with good.

29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. [mass extinction]

30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. [new biome created after each mass extinction]

 

[iouae]

Exodus 20:11*For in six days the*Lord*made the heavens and the earth, and all that is in them,

The current heavens (air and its creatures) and earth (land and its creatures) were made in 6 days.

 

[Jonahdog]

The current heavens (air and its creatures) and earth (land and its creatures) were made in 6 days.

Wrong, but maybe you can take a make-up test.

 

[iouae]

There are a number of witnesses to the glory of God.

1) Psalm 19:19 The heavens declare the glory of God; [cosmology, astronomy]

2) and the firmament sheweth his handywork. [biology, geology, palaeontology]

3) the sciences [microbiology, astronomy.. etc.]
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

4) The Bible.

Sometimes Creationists score own goals by insisting on their interpretation of scripture while three other god-given witnesses are screaming the opposite.

 

[6days]

There are a number of witnesses to the glory of God.
1) Psalm 19:19 The heavens declare the glory of God; [cosmology, astronomy]

Yes!*

The universe helps confirm the Bible.

2) and the firmament sheweth his handywork. [biology, geology, palaeontology]

True, biology, *geology, paleontology etc help confirm the truth of God's Word.

3) the sciences [microbiology, astronomy.. etc.]

Exactly! Science can be and should be a form of worship for us.

4) The Bible.

Of course! But I would have put the Bible as #1 instead of 4th. We interpret the world around us through the lens of God's Word and not man's opinions. *
As paleontologist Kurt Wise says, even though the evidence supports a young earth...we believe that because of God's Word. The Bible is our ultimate source of truth.*

 

[Hedshaker]

Bibleism

Not in the English dictionary yet I don't think, but we can work on it...... :cigar:

 

[iouae]

As paleontologist Kurt Wise says, even though the evidence supports a young earth...we believe that because of God's Word. The Bible is our ultimate source of truth.*

From...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Wise

"Biologist and popular atheist author Richard Dawkins called Wise a truly honest creationist because he is willing to accept creationism even if he admitted "all the evidence in the universe" was against it.[8] Dawkins, referring to Wise's testimony, criticized what he perceived as intellectual dishonesty:

Kurt Wise doesn't need the challenge; he volunteers that, even if all the evidence in the universe flatly contradicted Scripture, and even if he had reached the point of admitting this to himself, he would still take his stand on Scripture and deny the evidence. This leaves me, as a scientist, speechless... We have it on the authority of a man who may well be creationism's most highly qualified and most intelligent scientist that no evidence, no matter how overwhelming, no matter how all-embracing, no matter how devastatingly convincing, can ever make any difference.[8]"

Thankfully I don't have to choose between Cosmology, Palaeontology and Theology. To me they all concur and blend seamlessly. All 4 witnesses I listed in a previous post say the same thing, to me.

 

[Hedshaker]

Of course! But I would have put the Bible as #1 instead of 4th. We interpret the world around us through the lens of God's Word and not man's opinions. *

Which is itself an opinion :think:

 

[Hedshaker]

Kurt Wise doesn't need the challenge; he volunteers that, even if all the evidence in the universe flatly contradicted Scripture, and even if he had reached the point of admitting this to himself, he would still take his stand on Scripture and deny the evidence. This leaves me, as a scientist, speechless... We have it on the authority of a man who may well be creationism's most highly qualified and most intelligent scientist that no evidence, no matter how overwhelming, no matter how all-embracing, no matter how devastatingly convincing, can ever make any difference.[8]"

Kurt Wise Isn't alone on that one as popular creationist sites also subscribe. Kurt Wise is just honest enough to admit it openly . Can't argue with that :think:

 

[iouae]

Exactly! Science can be and should be a form of worship for us.


Of course! But I would have put the Bible as #1 instead of 4th. We interpret the world around us through the lens of God's Word and not man's opinions.

When I find that Cosmology is screaming "Old earth".
When I find that Palaeontology is screaming "Old earth".
When I find that Science is screaming "Old earth".
Then I would not ignore these witnesses but re-examine my theology.

I would ask myself if I have a wrong interpretation if I perceive my theology to be saying "Young earth".
I would allow all 4 witnesses to speak to one another till I reach a consensus, as does a jury. They cannot contradict.

 

[6days]

Thankfully I don't have to choose between Cosmology, Palaeontology and Theology. To me they all concur and blend seamlessly. All 4 witnesses I listed in a previous post say the same thing, to me.

Only God's Word can be considered the ultimate source of truth.*

Cosmology, paleontology and Theology are supporting evidence.*

Interpretations of evidence though must be made using the lens of God's Word. *For example we believe in the resurrection because The Bible tells us...we don't accept the resurrection based on biologist opinions *

 

[6days]

When I find that Cosmology is screaming "Old earth".
When I find that Palaeontology is screaming "Old earth".
When I find that Science is screaming "Old earth".
Then I would not ignore these witnesses but re-examine my theology.

I would ask myself if I have a wrong interpretation if I perceive my theology to be saying "Young earth".
I would allow all 4 witnesses to speak to one another till I reach a consensus, as does a jury. They cannot contradict.

You are confusing secular opinions with data.
You are putting man's opinions on the same level as the absolute truth of God's Word.
Btw...cosmology, paleontology, genetics, biology etc all scream That God's Word is true. We live in a young universe...a perfect creation now suffering degradation from the curse of sin.*

 

[iouae]

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/690958main_p1237a1.jpg

The universe 13.2 billion years ago from Hubble's extreme deep field view.

 

[MichaelCadry]

http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/690958main_p1237a1.jpg

The universe 13.2 billion years ago from Hubble's extreme deep field view.

Oh, iouae,

You believe 13.2 billion years because you've been told so. You could have said 13.2 million years and you'd still be wrong. Don't you think that God could instantly create whatever our eyes are supposed to see, just as long as they don't find the 'end' of the Universe. What would be there? That is why you can never know until you are in Heaven and ask God. If you get a stronger telescope, God will stretch the Heavens that much more so that you never find an end. I don't trust any spectrum test as far as I can throw it. That's just another Carbon-14 dating error, or the Piltdown Man deception; both highly touted to be the absolute truth by evolutionists and the like. There is no 13.2 billion year old Universe. God just created it all as old as it needed to be. God could have created Adam as a man in his 50s, and Eve in her 20s. Age has nothing to do with what God will actually do. I figured you still don't know what I'm saying in this paragraph, but I am trying to be clear. Many things can be taken wrongly. That's the problem with poor communication. Breaks up a lot of friends and couples, even married ones. It's just a shame. Communication is so extremely urgent when you speak to everyone.

I'm surprised to find out that they didn't say 13.2 Trillion years old. They just make up what sounds astounding and unreasonable, so that no one can say otherwise. Do you think Science knows the distance from Earth to the furthest point in the Universe, as far as what our telescope says?? Light-years, that's all I hear. It's pretty long, those light-years that get thrown around like they last an hour. No one probably understands me, but I don't believe half of this retort and nonsense, so it doesn't matter.

If God wants to make Betelgeuse seem to be the Age of 500 million years, then He could you know. I know Him better than you, but whatever He utters out of His mouth can be done by Him. You do not know the uttermost Extremeness! of God's Power, irregardless of how people dare to speak about Him, trying to debase Him as some kind of man to talk down on. Some people are going to be unpleasantly surprised when He decides to make Himself known to all!! Oh the Horror!!!

I know the Lord God somewhat well because He has visited me succinctly two times, and I've had three extreme angel visits, and a number of visions/out-of-body experiences. So it's not cause I've got some great brain. It's because I have been given much help by God. So that my testimony of what I have seen and heard I can speak to all now. For all of your 'mental superiority,' you are going to find out that fancy words don't get you into Heaven. You might as well tie a noose around your neck, like Judas Iscariot did when he hanged himself after betraying Jesus. But that's a whole another story!!

Well, this is getting long, so I'll get going. You know that I like you, iouae, and I have since you first posted on this thread. You have said a lot I disagree with, but you say a lot of what I Agree With. So this is what makes it all so intriguing, wonderful, awesome and pleasing to have a site to chat at. No one knows how Thankful they should be for Knight for all that he's done to bring this about. May God Bless Him Extraordinarily For His Works!!

Much Love Coming Your Way Again,

Michael

:angel: :cloud9: :cloud9: :angel: :guitar: :rapture:
​

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Derf,

Things are working fast and exceptional right now, as far as the speed goes. Working wonderful. Sometimes, when a lot of people are trying to post to this thread kind of often, overlapping, etc., it takes a lot longer to post. But always remember to give it time to post. Give it a good minute. I learned that out early on. I made my fair share of mistakes posting it twice instead of once. You'll notice a few deleted files on this thread if you look at the total. Oh, by the way, I was saying how close I was with God because He spoke to me on two occasions powerfully and in person. He also initially sent me 3 angels, each one week apart, to tell me certain words. I'm not rewriting it all here because it would take too long. If you remind me in a post to me by tomorrow, I will give you the web address of my website where you can read my book for free or print out a copy for yourself. Remind me 2morrow. It is already 4:30a.m. here and I've got to get to bed. I have been visited by the Lord and a number of angels, besides these GREAT visits I've had. I've also had a number of visions. In other words, I have had other visits from the Lord and from angels, but nothing like when it happened initially. Maybe I'm becoming more used to Him. He has told me that I represent one of two witnesses to confirm His Words that Jesus is Returning Soon. I can tell by all that has happened since I was 18 years old that He is definitely no hallucination or mistake. You might not believe me. I don't care though. I'm not trying to be bogue, but I have faced it all at least 13.2 billion times already. You see what I mean?? A LOT!! If no one believes me, does that mean that it isn't true?? I'm of incredibility and yes, awesomely gifted beyond measure, and I only am a humble man, not high and mighty, but instead loving and meek.

I'd best get going. This is getting long. Will chat with you again soon. I have so much to do here on this site, because I did not check in yesterday night, so I am way behind.

I Pray From God To Send Love To You And Your Loved Ones,

Michael

 

[iouae]

Oh, iouae,

You believe 13.2 billion years because you've been told so. You could have said 13.2 million years and you'd still be wrong. Don't you think that God could instantly create whatever our eyes are supposed to see, just as long as they don't find the 'end' of the Universe. What would be there? That is why you can never know until you are in Heaven and ask God. If you get a stronger telescope, God will stretch the Heavens that much more so that you never find an end. I don't trust any spectrum test as far as I can throw it. That's just another Carbon-14 dating error, or the Piltdown Man deception; both highly touted to be the absolute truthby evolutionists and the like. There is no 13.2 billion year old Universe. God just created it all as old as it needed to be. God could have created Adam as a man in his 50s, and Eve in her 20s. Age has nothing to do with what God will actually do.

I'm surprised to find out that they didn't say 13.2 Trillion years old. They just make up what sounds astounding and unreasonable, so that no one can say otherwise. Do you think Science knows the distance from Earth to the furthest point in the Universe, as far as what our telescope says?? Light-years, that's all I hear. It's pretty long, those light-years that get thrown around like they last an hour. No one probably understands me, but I don't believe half of this retort and nonsense, so it doesn't matter.

If God wants to make Betelgeuse seem to be the Age of 500 million years, then He could you know. I know Him better than you, but whatever He utters out of His mouth can be done by Him. You do not know the uttermost Extremeness! of God's Power, irregardless of how people dare to speak about Him, trying to debase Him as some kind of man to talk down on. Some people are going to be unpleasantly surprised when He decides to make Himself known to all!! Oh the Horror!!!

I know the Lord God somewhat well because He has visited me succinctly two times, and I've had three extreme angel visits, and a number of visions/out-of-body experiences. So it's not cause I've got some great brain. It's because I have been given much help by God. So that my testimony of what I have seen and heard I can speak to all now. For all of your 'mental superiority,' you are going to find out that fancy words don't get you into Heaven. You might as well tie a noose around your neck, like Judas Iscariot did when he hanged himself after betraying Jesus. But that's a whole another story!!

Well, this is getting long, so I'll get going. You know that I like you, iouae, and I have since you first posted on this thread. You have said a lot I disagree with, but you say a lot of what I Agree With. So this is what makes it all so intriguing, wonderful, awesome and pleasing to have a site to chat at. No one know how Thankful they should be for Knight for all that he's done to bring this about. May God Bless Him Extraordinarily For His Works!!

Much Love Coming Your Way Again,

Michael

:angel: :cloud9: :cloud9: :angel: :guitar: :rapture:
​

Hi Michael

I believe that on the first day God created light.
I do not believe God created the heavens and the earth AND light.
That leaves me free to believe there was a gap between the creation of the heavens and the earth and the first day.
This gap can be as long as science says.
If it says 13.75 billion years, or 5 billion, I have no reason to fight science on this. If science said 10000 years, I would believe that.

I am as much into science as you are into cooking. If I were to ask you to believe that meat and wine are evil - that would be the same as asking me to believe that science is evil.

Looking through a telescope is not hard. And the bigger the telescope, the further one sees. The further one sees, the longer it has taken light to get here. And 13.75 billion years is not close to 6000 years. A kiddies telescope from Toys-R-Us can see stars, the light of which has taken more than 6000 years to get here. Expansion of the universe is so slight over this distance as to be irrelevant. So expansion is not fudging the numbers by much.

And looking at the strata of rocks, it is as clear as anything that there are rocks near the surface with human fossils, and below these rocks devoid of human fossils. And this occurs worldwide. Thus there was a time on earth before humans. Human fossils are only found in the relatively shallow strata, showing the majority of earth's history had no humans. So C14 dating and Piltdown man are not a factor in my belief. I believe before the flood there was less radiation, so less C14 formed, which gives longer ages to pre-flood fossils.

The scriptures say God cannot lie (Titus 1:2). That means He cannot stage the heavens or the rocks to look different to their real ages either. Why would He? He has nothing to hide.

God loves to see His children arguing about His word on forums such as this. These are not salvation issues. God loves to see His children so passionate about Him that they would take time out of their day to talk about Him. I think He loves to see atheists and agnostics contributing here too.

I have been in cult churches where all believe the same thing and nobody fights over doctrine. Now THAT is scary.

Michael, It is lovely hearing from you as always.