Creation vs. Evolution

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MichaelCadry

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The reason for asking those particular questions is that he is not understanding the one I'm asking. He still doesn't treat F&V correctly, nor the difference between 'ekpalai' and 'archeia' in 2 Pet 2&3. At least the KJV does!



You are very sincere, but if you have worked professionally in the languages, you know that the literary examples are the most valuable way to find out what kind of expression is being used. The Hebrew 'formless and void' only comes up twice in the OT. There is no backstory in Gen 1. But in Jer 4 there is. A culture, a people had been raised to a climax and then declined and now their capital city was F&V because they had turned away from God and rejected him. Therefore, I don't accept the idea that F&V in Gen 1 is just a material description of being flat or featureless.


Dear Interplanner,

I want to applaud you for not getting upset by my post. It takes a lot, I can imagine. It is really nice having you here!! I hope you like the questions asked here. I will write more when I have more time. Congrats!!

May God Bless Your Heart And Soul,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
What makes you treat science like a religion?
I don't see a thread on this forum labelled "afterlife vs. reincarnation"...


Dear TheDuke,

I didn't realize that I was treating science like a religion. I believe in both of what you say: afterlife and reincarnation. It is written, "And the rest of the dead did not live AGAIN until the 1,000 years were finished. See Rev. 20:5KJV.

May God Bless You Tons!!

Michael

:thumb:
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Dear TheDuke,

I didn't realize that I was treating science like a religion. I believe in both of what you say: afterlife and reincarnation. It is written, "And the rest of the dead did not live AGAIN until the 1,000 years were finished. See Rev. 20:5KJV.

May God Bless You Tons!!

Michael

:thumb:



Did you mean to say 'resurrection' but wrote 'reincarnation'? Reincarnation is the karmaic assignment to a certain caste of life in your next life, based on 'right behavior' in this one, in Buddhism.
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Did you mean to say 'resurrection' but wrote 'reincarnation'? Reincarnation is the karmaic assignment to a certain caste of life in your next life, based on 'right behavior' in this one, in Buddhism.


Dear Interplanner,

No, I meant to say 'reincarnation.' Read Rev. 20:5. "But the rest of the dead did not LIVE AGAIN until the thousand years were finished." That means that they will live again, come back, be reborn again, in a different body.

:thumb:
 

6days

New member
.
There are so many things in science that are barely reconcilable with scriptural literalism - why is evolution special???
I think you confuse science with your beliefs about the past. Evolutionism and creationism both examine the same fossils, geological layers, mutation rates etc then interpret them according to their belief system.
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I think you confuse science with your beliefs about the past. Evolutionism and creationism both examine the same fossils, geological layers, mutation rates etc then interpret them according to their belief system.


Dear 6days,

Wow! You are getting a lot of good rep. You have a star now, eh? Cool!! I'm very happy for you.

Creationism is something solid to believe in. It explains how we got here, why there's a Universe so vast, why there are animals and fish, it's just a simple truth, but some people won't accept it. God will give them their just rewards.

Praise God And Jesus, And The Holy Ghost/Spirit!!

Michael

:wave2: :thumb: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
 

TheDuke

New member
There is the closed, naturalist presupposition on one hand. It is modern thinking.

...


The NT does not hesitate to say that the universe is full of spiritual beings, entities, demons, and angels, and says that the existence of the church shows God's truth to these beings and that the Gospel can cause people to love each other across earthly differences, Eph 3:10.


Dear Interplanner,

I'm not entirely sure this was a response to me because I couldn't find an answer to my question, so excuse me if I'm interrupting another conversation.
You have considerably more understanding of theology than I do, so I cannot really respond adequately to what you had to say. However one point I did catch, namely that evolution somehow "reduces" humans to the rank of animals.
Unfortunately this is not the case, evolution is not needed for that, in fact the recognition that humans are animals is justified by anatomical analysis of human biology, of course with more modern tools such as cellular tissue analysis it becomes even more evident.

- Duke
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hey DavisBJ,

What's up with you? Cat got your tongue?? And where is Hedshaker, and The Barbarian, and Stuart, and many more. What post are you posting on now?? Let me know so that I can see what you have to say. I'm going to get some ice cream for now!!

Warmest Regards,

Michael
 

TheDuke

New member
Dear TheDuke,

I didn't realize that I was treating science like a religion. I believe in both of what you say: afterlife and reincarnation. It is written, "And the rest of the dead did not live AGAIN until the 1,000 years were finished. See Rev. 20:5KJV.

May God Bless You Tons!!

Michael

:thumb:

Dear Michael,

The reason I was asking is because you specifically said that you don't BELIEVE in evolution. It is absolutely possible to have an intellectual position that disagrees with scientific consensus, however belief (or by extension: faith) is a really bad approach to scientific exploration.

Could you perhaps clarify what about evolution upsets you so much?

PS: reincarnation, as I meant it, was the supposed alternative to what happens to everyone immediately after death, so your example isn't exactly what I had in mind...

-Duke
 

TheDuke

New member
I think you confuse science with your beliefs about the past. Evolutionism and creationism both examine the same fossils, geological layers, mutation rates etc then interpret them according to their belief system.

I'm sorry to inform you that you are very much in error!

I cannot comment about what creationism does, since I don't know all the details and I don't follow it closely.
However I can certainly explain to you what science does!

First and foremost: what do you mean with "evolutionism"? Are you really under the impression that there are religious beliefs involved in the scientific enterprise?
Secondly, evidence is never "interpreted" and most certainly not just in order to fit a pre-existing belief. The whole strength of science is that the theoretical model is always adapted and changed whenever new evidence is uncovered.

Cheers, Duke.
 

TheDuke

New member
Dear 6days,

Wow! You are getting a lot of good rep. You have a star now, eh? Cool!! I'm very happy for you.

Creationism is something solid to believe in. It explains how we got here, why there's a Universe so vast, why there are animals and fish, it's just a simple truth, but some people won't accept it. God will give them their just rewards.

Praise God And Jesus, And The Holy Ghost/Spirit!!

Michael

:wave2: :thumb: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:

Hi again,

Short question: what does that star over the reputation bar mean?

And if you can be troubled, how does creationism explain the vastness of the universe?

- Duke
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Dear alwight,

How are you doing 2nite?? It must be 8:30a.m. there? You wake up early. I get up at noon! I was on here until 5:30am last night. 6days will not take over this thread, so I guess I'm going to have to do the best I can. I miss the old gang, but I do see new people posting here. They have questions too. Well, I'd best get to answering TheDuke. I don't yet know what he has to say because I thought I would write to you first. U take good care of yourself and wish me some good blessings!!

Best Wishes!!

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER

Hi again,

Short question: what does that star over the reputation bar mean?

That means all of the green and blue boxes have exceeded a certain point, and then you get a star, and you start to get more blue and green boxes, and when you get enough, you get a second star, etc.

And if you can be troubled, how does creationism explain the vastness of the universe?

- Duke


Dear Duke,

The vastness of the Universe was done by God. If He can make a man from the ground, then He can create a humongous, vast Universe. How else can you explain how it all came to be? We have a BRILLIANT BEING Who is doing all of these things. Everything did not just happen. Only God speaking it to be into existence. He is a Master Chemist and has a Vast Imagination.

May God And Jesus Bless You!!

Michael

:wave2: :thumb:

 

Interplanner

Well-known member
Dear Interplanner,

I'm not entirely sure this was a response to me because I couldn't find an answer to my question, so excuse me if I'm interrupting another conversation.
You have considerably more understanding of theology than I do, so I cannot really respond adequately to what you had to say. However one point I did catch, namely that evolution somehow "reduces" humans to the rank of animals.
Unfortunately this is not the case, evolution is not needed for that, in fact the recognition that humans are animals is justified by anatomical analysis of human biology, of course with more modern tools such as cellular tissue analysis it becomes even more evident.

- Duke



That is a quote from Darwin's wife. Furthermore, Darwin understood he was "killing God" with it, and pulled back, when pushed into it by T. Huxley. He knew that it created a society in which there would be "no faith, no trust, no hope, no honor."

It is the shift of presuppositional base that I am referring to. When evolution was accepted, a 'closed system of natural causes and effects' was accepted, which actually has its roots in Eastern religious thinking, in the most advanced sense of pantheism, but I won't go further into that just now. That is what Darwin himself shuddered at unleashing.

Obviously, it is not what the Christian view is. A minute's reading of the Bible will show you that. The next question is, does nature itself validate either? Well, if you will look at the work of astrophysicists Gonzalez and Richards you will find this: a demonstration that the intricacy of earth's celestial and chemical features is so extremely fine-tuned that there must be a Creator. It is about improbabilities. Not only do each individual feature have improbabilities with more 00s than I can put in one screen here, but all 20 of them must work perfectly, harmoniously, continuously together for mankind to be alive.
 

Stuu

New member
a demonstration that the intricacy of earth's celestial and chemical features is so extremely fine-tuned that there must be a Creator. It is about improbabilities. Not only do each individual feature have improbabilities with more 00s than I can put in one screen here, but all 20 of them must work perfectly, harmoniously, continuously together for mankind to be alive.
But you will conveniently ignore the improbability of the alleged creator while weaving this web of logical fallacy.

Stuart
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER

Dear Michael,

The reason I was asking is because you specifically said that you don't BELIEVE in evolution. It is absolutely possible to have an intellectual position that disagrees with scientific consensus, however belief (or by extension: faith) is a really bad approach to scientific exploration.

Could you perhaps clarify what about evolution upsets you so much?

I don't believe in evolution because I believe that God has His Hands on any minute changes that are made in plants, animals, mankind, etc. He controls the genomes, genes, DNA, RNA, nuclei, protons, etc. He is the Master Chemist. There is nothing He cannot do. So do you ask your Maker 'why did you make me? I don't believe in natural selection either. God can do all these things with the angels that help Him. Don't you know??

PS: reincarnation, as I meant it, was the supposed alternative to what happens to everyone immediately after death, so your example isn't exactly what I had in mind...

-Duke

To be honest, Duke, I do believe that when you die, your spirit goes into a womb and you are born as a new baby, done so you will learn the lessons you didn't learn in your past lives. It is important that you grow and learn. How are you going to help God if you're a nitwit? That's why God teaches us all of these centuries more and more, until we are strong enough to go to Heaven and not fall from it. You have to learn that the devil will challenge you. But his voice is just not true in your thoughts. He just likes to give you negative ideas, etc. and accusations, etc. See Rev. 12:10KJV and Rev. 12:12KJV.

Michael

 

Stuu

New member
The 'Theia' theory is that an accident put the earth and moon in perfect alignment and rotation to result in the celestial mechanics we have today, suitable for human life as we know it.
But, O believer in fantasy conspiracy theories, isn't evolution by natural selection all about the living species adapting to the environment, and not the environment being set up for the living species? That explains things perfectly. Fantasy god tales don't actually explain anything.

Can you say exactly what you mean by 'an accident put the earth and moon in perfect alignment and rotation to result in the celestial mechanics we have today, suitable for human life as we know it'?

If you can't, perhaps it would have been better that you had not cast that heavenly fantasy pearl before us heathen swine.

Stuart
 

Stuu

New member
He controls the genomes, genes, DNA, RNA, nuclei, protons, etc. He is the Master Chemist. There is nothing He cannot do. So do you ask your Maker 'why did you make me?
Why does your god give some people the DNA that makes them have cystic fibrosis? Why does your god never cure people with cystic fibrosis? Have those people done something horrifically wrong?

Stuart
 

TheDuke

New member

Dear Duke,

The vastness of the Universe was done by God. If He can make a man from the ground, then He can create a humongous, vast Universe. How else can you explain how it all came to be? We have a BRILLIANT BEING Who is doing all of these things. Everything did not just happen. Only God speaking it to be into existence. He is a Master Chemist and has a Vast Imagination.

May God And Jesus Bless You!!

Michael


Hey Michael,

I'm not contesting the power of your god, I'm merely inquiring about the reasoning behind the creation of an entire universe of such magnitude, even though (if I understand correctly) the position of creationism is that everything was created with us in mind. Hence, what's the point of such a big universe that is pretty much irrelevant for our existence - what is the explanation you have for that?

Furthermore, in case you are curious, there exist a few hypotheses about the physical mechanisms responsible for the origin of matter in the universe.

Of course cosmology is beyond the original subject of this thread, I was just curious how you explain that.

- Duke
 

TheDuke

New member
That is a quote from Darwin's wife. Furthermore, Darwin understood he was "killing God" with it, and pulled back, when pushed into it by T. Huxley. He knew that it created a society in which there would be "no faith, no trust, no hope, no honor."

It is the shift of presuppositional base that I am referring to. When evolution was accepted, a 'closed system of natural causes and effects' was accepted, which actually has its roots in Eastern religious thinking, in the most advanced sense of pantheism, but I won't go further into that just now. That is what Darwin himself shuddered at unleashing.

Obviously, it is not what the Christian view is. A minute's reading of the Bible will show you that. The next question is, does nature itself validate either? Well, if you will look at the work of astrophysicists Gonzalez and Richards you will find this: a demonstration that the intricacy of earth's celestial and chemical features is so extremely fine-tuned that there must be a Creator. It is about improbabilities. Not only do each individual feature have improbabilities with more 00s than I can put in one screen here, but all 20 of them must work perfectly, harmoniously, continuously together for mankind to be alive.


I see,

Darwin may have been aware of the implications of his work on society, but why do you paint it in such a negative light? You are aware of the simple current situation that most western societies are very secular and yet clearly very far from social decay, right?

I haven't read the work of Gonzales and Richards so I won't address any particular conclusions they have reached. However I can easily point out the absolutely obvious non sequitur: natural complexity and interdependence does not necessitate a creator! When you look outside your window you can witness the beauty of nature before you - whether that nature was created instantly or has developed over billions of years does not change your appreciation of its aesthetics, right?

And you still haven't answered my question...
 
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