Creation vs. Evolution

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MichaelCadry

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Dear DavisBJ,

Hi!! I'm just writing to tell you that I miss you guys and I do love you all. I'm talking about you, of course, and Hedshaker, gcthomas, The Barbarian, and Stuart of course. He's been posting some, so I'm glad for that. It's not good not hearing from you all. Well, just wanted to let you know. I have some new posters here, but I still miss you all. We've already intertwined into each others' lives. So, we know each others' feelings and beliefs. Okay, I won't get more mushy.

Warmest Regards,

Michael
 

MichaelCadry

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I see,

Darwin may have been aware of the implications of his work on society, but why do you paint it in such a negative light? You are aware of the simple current situation that most western societies are very secular and yet clearly very far from social decay, right?

I haven't read the work of Gonzales and Richards so I won't address any particular conclusions they have reached. However I can easily point out the absolutely obvious non sequitur: natural complexity and interdependence does not necessitate a creator! When you look outside your window you can witness the beauty of nature before you - whether that nature was created instantly or has developed over billions of years does not change your appreciation of its aesthetics, right?

And you still haven't answered my question...


Dear TheDuke,

And Who do you think created all of those flowers and nature? It was God, of course! There is no Mother Nature. It is God doing everything through Himself and His angels. Don't you know anything? Nature did not just created itself. Who do you also expect tornadoes come from, and hurricanes, and blizzards, and earthquakes, rain, thunder, lightning?? Don't you know it is God? You are very hopeless to not know these things. There is Father Nature and His name is God, the Lord. I'm not trying to cause you any trouble. I'm just relaying what I know.

Wise Up,

Michael

:thumb:
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
But since “creationism” is just a term alluding to a set of beliefs about creation, there may be 687 different religious groups with unique idea about creation. Can each of these then look at the same fossil, geological, and mutation rate evidence, interpret it in such a way that it supports their own customized beliefs, and thus 687 diverse groups walk away confident that their beliefs are the correct ones?


Dear Davis,

I found you! I just put a message out to you. Why don't you post to me anymore? I do miss you even though I don't always agree with you. Alwight still loves me whether I agree with him or not. I wish you could do the same. I life and love is intertwined. We know each other as far as some of our beliefs. I do wish I had a picture of you though. Are you in your 40's? Just curious. Okay, will chat with you later.

Have A Wonderful Day And Make It Count!!

Michael

:thumb: :wave2:
 

MichaelCadry

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LIFETIME MEMBER
This is a bit disappointing to hear.
Your version of reality is one, where your god continuously fiddles with everything through his supernatural powers, even though our understanding of nature elegantly explains all that we see without the need for magic.

Does it mean that you generally don't want to believe in any natural processes without devine intervention?

wow, is this the normal Christian position?, now I'm really confused...

Why would god require any help?
And why is it so difficult to learn that "the devil will challenge us"?


God does not do magic. He does miracles and beauty. No, I don't believe in natural processes except that God works in mysterious ways. I believe in God as a Master Changer, Master Chemist, and Master Creationist, and also has an Incredible Imagination!!!

I KNOW that Jesus controls the tornadoes that we experience. Some places are destroyed, to bring those people to seek God, and other buildings/dwellings are left untouched. But woe to those who all get demolished. That is God's Way of saying, "I am against you, city."

You will find it all out when you face God and ask Him. You will be amazed and more educated. God's angels do a lot of work too, of course. Why do you think they exist? Just to do NOTHING?? God is like a corporation also. He is the Executive, and His employees are the angels.

I don't know why it is difficult for you to learn that the devil will challenge us. I posted to you what is written in the Bible. It is exactly what is happening today. Don't be confused. Learn things.[/QUOTE]

Praise The Lord God!!

Michael

:wave2: :thumb: :angel: :cloud9:
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hi, Michael,

I am doing fine, thanks. I saw an article of interesting news. For the first time, of the students just entering Harvard more of them identify themselves as atheists and agnostics than do the new students who say they are Protestant or Catholic.


Dear Davis,

Welcome Back!! I'm glad that you are doing well. I guess that doesn't surprise me about Harvard's students. They will be bummed with their futures, so I feel sorry for them, is all. I hope you are sure about your deduction here. Thanks for the info.

Your Brethren,

Michael

:wave: :thumb: :cloud9:
 
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MichaelCadry

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LIFETIME MEMBER
For the Newbies here:


From everready!!!

Evolution Is an Ancient Pagan Greek Idea



Contrary to what its supporters claim, evolution is not a scientific theory but a pagan belief. The idea of evolution first appeared in such ancient societies as Egypt, Babylon, and Sumer, after which it passed to ancient Greek philosophers. Pagan Sumerian monuments contain statements denying creation and claiming that living things emerged by themselves as part of a gradual process. According to Sumerian belief, life emerged by itself out of the disorder of water.

As part of their own superstitious religions, the ancient Egyptians believed that "snakes, frogs, worms, and mice emerged from the mud of the Nile flood waters." Just like the Sumerians, the ancient Egyptians denied the existence of a Creator and thought that "living things emerged by chance from mud."

The most important claim of the Greek philosophers Empedocles (fifth century BC), Thales (d. 546 BC), and Anaximander (d. 547 BC) of Miletus was that the first living things were formed from such inanimate substances as air, fire, and water. This theory posited that the first living things suddenly emerged in water and that later on some of them left the water, adapted to life on land, and began to live there. Thales believed that "water" was the root of all life, that plants and animals began to develop in water, and that humanity was the end result of this process. Anaximander, a younger contemporary of Thales, held the false belief that "man arose from the fishes" and the source of life began with a "primordial mass."

Anaximander's verse work On Nature is the first available written work based upon the theory of evolution. In that poem, he wrote that creatures arose from slime that had been dried by the sun. According to Anaximander's erroneous way of thinking, the first animals were covered with prickly scales and lived in the seas. As these fish-like creatures supposedly evolved, they moved onto land, shed their scaly coverings and eventually became human beings. (For further details, see The Religion of Darwinism by Harun Yahya, Abu'l Qasim Publishers, Jeddah, 2003) His illogical theory can be considered the first foundation of the present-day theory of evolution, for it has many similarities with Darwinism.

Empedocles brought earlier ideas together and suggested that the fundamental elements (i.e., earth, air, fire, and water) came together to create bodies. He also believed that man had developed from plant life, and that only chance played any role in this process. As mentioned earlier, this concept of chance and its role in creation form the principle basis upon which the theory of evolution is built.

Heraclitus (d. fifth century BC) made another illogical claim, that because the universe was in a process of constant change, there was no point in questioning the mythical account of its beginning and maintained that it had no beginning or end. Rather, it simply existed. In short, the materialist belief upon which evolution is based also existed in ancient Greece.

The deceptive idea of spontaneous generation was supported by many other Greek philosophers, particularly Aristotle (384-22 BC). This idea said that animals, in particular certain worms, insects, and plants, came about by themselves in nature and so did not need to undergo any fertilization process. Maurice Manquat, well known for his studies on Aristotle's ideas on natural history, once said:
Aristotle was concerned with the origin of life so much that he accepted spontaneous generation (the coming together of inanimate substances to spontaneously form a living thing) in order to explain certain events that could not be accounted for in any other way.

On careful inspection, one can see considerable similarities between the ideas of past and present evolutionist thinkers. The roots of the materialist idea that the universe has no beginning and no end, as well as the evolutionist view that living things emerged as the result of chance, lie in pagan Sumerian culture and were common among materialist Greek thinkers. The ideas that life emerged from water and a mixture known as "primordial mass," and living things emerge only because of chance, form the bases of these two ideas that are linked despite the passage of so much time.

Thus, Muslims who think that evolution is logical support a theory whose roots are embedded in ancient ideas that have been shown to have no scientific basis. Moreover, such ideas were first proposed by ancient materialist thinkers and contain pagan meanings.

Actually, evolution is not restricted to ancient Sumerian culture or ancient Greek philosophers, for it forms the essence of such major contemporary belief systems as Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism. In other words, evolution is no more than a theory that is completely opposed to Islamic belief.

Some Muslims who support evolution, despite historical findings to the contrary, claim that the Qur'an supports this supposed "Creationist Theory of Evolution" and try to find the source of evolution in the Muslim world. They assert that this idea first emerged from Muslim thinkers and, when their works were translated into foreign languages, evolutionist thought appeared in the West.

However, the few examples given above clearly reveal that evolution is no more than a primitive belief dating back to ancient pagan societies. It would be a great mistake to try and show that evolutionist thought, built upon materialist foundations, can be ascribed to Muslims when there is absolutely no clear scientific and historical basis to support such a claim.

Posted by Yasin Ertuğrul Özdemir at 11:45 AM


Michael
 

rstrats

Active member
I wonder what the supreme being was doing for the trillion, trillion, trillion to the trillionth power years (just as a start) before the Genesis creation?
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I wonder what the supreme being was doing for the trillion, trillion, trillion to the trillionth power years (just as a start) before the Genesis creation?


Probably presiding over a different planet with animals and people on it. He's good at it. Doing things way different.

Michael

:banana: :wave2: :thumb:
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
I wonder what the supreme being was doing for the trillion, trillion, trillion to the trillionth power years (just as a start) before the Genesis creation?

Time is meaningless to God; irrelevant. do you think God has a calendar and a watch. Time only means something to us; man made -

Psalm 90:2 KJV - Psalm 90:10 KJV -
 

freelight

Eclectic Theosophist
Time does have meaning in 'context'......

Time does have meaning in 'context'......

Time is meaningless to God; irrelevant. do you think God has a calendar and a watch. Time only means something to us; man made -

Psalm 90:2 KJV - Psalm 90:10 KJV -


True, there is something about 'God' that is 'timeless',...yet 'God' still inter-acts, involves, and creates in TIME. The paradox is that there is both the 'timeless' and 'time' co-existing in their own spheres and dimensions.

The very fact there is 'creation' and 'evolution' (these are the same thing, just termed different)....reveals that 'God' has his creative play in space-time. That's what creation/evolution is.....life/energy/consciousness in movement.
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Time is meaningless to God; irrelevant. do you think God has a calendar and a watch. Time only means something to us; man made -

Psalm 90:2 KJV - Psalm 90:10 KJV -



Dear patrick jane,

You're right!! God is Timeless. And of course, He has no watch. Time does matter to Him though. Certain times when He is going to do something that He said He was going to do. Like Armageddon, or the Great Flood. He knows what time He will do those things. God is timeless indeed, but He is also Supreme and when He says something, it doesn't come back to Him undone. But Jesus said that only God KNOWS THE TIME when Jesus will return again. No one else knows, not even the Son, but only the Father. So time does mean some things to Him. I'm looking forward to Jesus' Return here. It will be SPECTACULAR!!! Thanks for posting, Patrick!!! You get preferential treatment. I will put more emoticons on the bottom!

May God Bless You Tons And More!!

Michael

:thumb: :wave2: :angel: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
True, there is something about 'God' that is 'timeless',...yet 'God' still inter-acts, involves, and creates in TIME. The paradox is that there is both the 'timeless' and 'time' co-existing in their own spheres and dimensions.

The very fact there is 'creation' and 'evolution' (these are the same thing, just termed different)....reveals that 'God' has his creative play in space-time. That's what creation/evolution is.....life/energy/consciousness in movement.



Dear freelight,

I think you're right about there being at least a possible 4th dimension. I believe there is a veil that God will lift and heaven will look different when you look up to see it, especially the moon and stars. We'll have to see what happens. He said He would do it and I do know it is soon. You just don't know how I know and I'm not going to tell you just yet.

Creation and evolution are similar, but they are not the same. Evolution deals with life evolving from nothing. Creation deals with a Supreme God/Being Who CREATED ALL OF THE STUFF WE HAVE!! So figure it out. I'm not singling you out, freelight. This message is for everyone, that's all. Just THINK ABOUT IT!!!

May God Turn Your Life Around Only As Needed,

Michael

:thumb: :angel: :angel: :cloud9:




 

TheDuke

New member
Dear Stuart,

It is a fact that some people will experience diseases to cause them to pay for what they've done in a previous life. They could be Hitler or Mussolini, or a supporter of either one. Also, people have to die somehow, so disease it allowed. Satan gets to cause people disease and God only reverses disease at His Own discretion. The devil has to be allowed some things on Earth, like weeds, which is something God gives him. Why are there weeds, just like why is there cystic fibrosis, cancer, COPD, emphysema, heart attacks, etc. People have to die some way, or the Earth would really be overpopulated. Does all of this answer your questions? Some people just reap what they sow and get their just desserts. What they've done in a previous life. Man cannot learn everything in just one lifetime. He has to learn through quite a number of reincarnations. We are learning a lot during this generation. The same way that God lets people be atheistic. God doesn't want them this time around. Maybe they will learn better in their next lifetime.

It does say, "And the REST OF THE DEAD did not LIVE AGAIN until the thousand years were finished." See Rev. 20:5 KJV.

You're going to have to learn what you didn't in this lifetime and hope you learn it in the next lifetime. It's basic knowledge.

Michael

I think what Stu was talking about is the obvious injustice of a deity that punishes people by making them suffer in this life, especially in view of the fact that this suffering is caused by clearly understandable natural causes.
Your explanation doesn't add to clarity, since it offers no distinction between an illness being the result of a person's "previous life", the devil's whim or a simple infection.
Also would you characterize the effects of old age as a disease or not?
 

TheDuke

New member
Dear Duke,

The reason the Universe is so vast is because there are MANY who have died since Adam and Eve, and when you die, your energy and light gets to live on a star. And when you are a spirit in Heaven, you get to travel to different galaxies to explore and enjoy all of our galaxy and once you've seen that, there is another galaxy to explore and enjoy, and it goes on almost forever. Just like the angels, we are when we die. Notice what is written in Dan. 12:3 KJV. "Those who turn many to righteousness shall be as the stars forever and ever."

Much Love,

Michael

That's a very poetic picture and I like it. One problem is that the bible quote is a metaphor and the number of stars in the universe is more numerous than all people who have ever lived by quite a few orders of magnitude.

Furthermore, I thought you said that people are reincarnated...
 

TheDuke

New member
Dear TheDuke,

And Who do you think created all of those flowers and nature? It was God, of course! There is no Mother Nature. It is God doing everything through Himself and His angels. Don't you know anything? Nature did not just created itself. Who do you also expect tornadoes come from, and hurricanes, and blizzards, and earthquakes, rain, thunder, lightning?? Don't you know it is God? You are very hopeless to not know these things. There is Father Nature and His name is God, the Lord. I'm not trying to cause you any trouble. I'm just relaying what I know.

Wise Up,

Michael

:thumb:


Dear Michael,

I'm fully aware of your faith and I'm not here in order to disprove your god. I'm merely pointing out that we have the knowledge to explain so much in nature.

For instance, all the weather phenomena + earthquakes that you've mentioned have very obvious natural causes, which we understand, measure and can even predict to some degree of accuracy that is improving as the computational power of our equipment increases.

Don't you find it strange that tornados are only encountered in some parts of the world? Reliably only in those parts and never anywhere else.
Don't you find it strange that you god who is capable of a global flood simply refuses to combat the desertification by just a little bit of rain? How many people are miserably starving to death because of that...

I really hope that you will one day discover the extent of our understanding of nature and cease to attribute every single thing that happens to devine causes - it's just not necessary.

Cheers, Duke
 

TheDuke

New member
God does not do magic. He does miracles and beauty. No, I don't believe in natural processes except that God works in mysterious ways. I believe in God as a Master Changer, Master Chemist, and Master Creationist, and also has an Incredible Imagination!!!

I KNOW that Jesus controls the tornadoes that we experience. Some places are destroyed, to bring those people to seek God, and other buildings/dwellings are left untouched. But woe to those who all get demolished. That is God's Way of saying, "I am against you, city."

You will find it all out when you face God and ask Him. You will be amazed and more educated. God's angels do a lot of work too, of course. Why do you think they exist? Just to do NOTHING?? God is like a corporation also. He is the Executive, and His employees are the angels.

I don't know why it is difficult for you to learn that the devil will challenge us. I posted to you what is written in the Bible. It is exactly what is happening today. Don't be confused. Learn things.

Praise The Lord God!!

Michael

[/QUOTE]

Yes I'm beginning to understand you better and better. Read my last comment about continuous devine intervention.

I can assure you that I'm not at all confused, miracles are magic!
 

TheDuke

New member
For the Newbies here:


From everready!!!

Evolution Is an Ancient Pagan Greek Idea



Contrary to what its supporters claim, evolution is not a scientific theory but a pagan belief. The idea of evolution first appeared in such ancient societies as Egypt, Babylon, and Sumer, after which it passed to ancient Greek philosophers. Pagan Sumerian monuments contain statements denying creation and claiming that living things emerged by themselves as part of a gradual process. According to Sumerian belief, life emerged by itself out of the disorder of water.

As part of their own superstitious religions, the ancient Egyptians believed that "snakes, frogs, worms, and mice emerged from the mud of the Nile flood waters." Just like the Sumerians, the ancient Egyptians denied the existence of a Creator and thought that "living things emerged by chance from mud."

...

Posted by Yasin Ertuğrul Özdemir at 11:45 AM


Michael


Dear Michael,

I find this quite outrageous!

Do you not know what biological evolution is and what it is not?

As interesting as these details of ancient religions about the origin of some animals may be, this has absolutely nothing to do with the science of evolution.

Just for clarification:


Biological evolution deals with the diversification of living organisms and NOT with their origin.
Statements like "living things emerged by chance from mud" is not just inaccurate, or misleading. That is a grotesque distortion, so far removed from what evolution actually is, that it's no wonder you don't believe in it.

Come on, seriously: Neither I nor any secular person on the globe makes the claim that living things just "emerge" by "chance" from water/air/dirt/rocks or whatever.

I would strongly recommend you to get a bit acquainted with the actual theoretical framework of evolution before you continue to convince yourself how ridiculous it is by portraying some nonsense.

Cheers.
 

Stuu

New member
Define your terms before you write off a creator. I don't know anyone who rejected a creator once the terms were clarified. this is why Dawkins blurted out his reaction to intelligent design: 'if there is a god, he is infinitely more intelligent than what the theologians have been saying.' Ie, he somehow had a very reduced idea of the infinity of God from whomever he was reading or hearing from. I don't know how that would ever happen from reading the Bible, but he did.
You're the one inventing a fantasy creator. How about you tell us what it is, and what the probability of its existence is, given that evolution over billions of years is a fact comprehensively explained by natural selection, and there is not one scrap of unambiguous evidence for anything like the creator described by Judeo-christian and other Abrahamist zealots like yourself.

Stuart
 

Stuu

New member
It's not my fantasy. It's theirs. They scotch-taped a god theme on it because it is such a fantasy. It is a complete disruption of the 'lab-table' of evolution for such an event to happen. All theories of evolution would have to have segment A and segment B and completely different explanations for each. What ever existed during A would have been totally disrupted.
You've got no idea about the history of this planet, have you.

There are books you know. I would recommend the ones not written by religious fantasists.

Stuart
 
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