Creation vs. Evolution

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6days

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In your response you are saying the antibiotic resistant strain are less fit, and you allude to the original population as the “other” bacteria who have not been genetically compromised and have therefore not become resistant to the antibiotic. But if the original (aka “other”) bacteria are not resistant to the antibiotic, in the second year, what population will a new antibiotic be targeted against? We already have an effective antibiotic against the original “other” bacteria.
Here is something for both of us.....
"In the lab we can routinely generate highly resistant populations, but this usually comes with a high fitness cost, and so rapidly reverts to an antibiotic sensitive form when we remove the antibiotic. However, in strains associated with clinical epidemics, we see that such strains are resistant, but crucially with little or no fitness cost. In some cases these these resistant bacteria may even be fitter than their ancestral forms, even in the absence of the antibiotic."

http://www.scilogs.com/the_gene_gym/bacterial-fitness/
 

The Barbarian

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Banned
Here is something for both of us.....
"In the lab we can routinely generate highly resistant populations, but this usually comes with a high fitness cost, and so rapidly reverts to an antibiotic sensitive form when we remove the antibiotic. However, in strains associated with clinical epidemics, we see that such strains are resistant, but crucially with little or no fitness cost. In some cases these these resistant bacteria may even be fitter than their ancestral forms, even in the absence of the antibiotic."

In the wild, mutations must survive the normal envirionment. And so, bacteria evolve new antibiotic resistance, they tend to be more robust than those which evolved in the lab.

No surprise there. Evolution works best in nature.
 

everready

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In the wild, mutations must survive the normal envirionment. And so, bacteria evolve new antibiotic resistance, they tend to be more robust than those which evolved in the lab.

No surprise there. Evolution works best in nature.

Evolution works best in a godless society, Communism, Atheism, & Humanism.


everready
 

seehigh

New member
Evolution started spreading like a cancer in the early 60's, its a doctrine of demons that has sent many souls to hell and will continue to do so until Jesus returns.


everready
Alllllll right then.

I was actually worried about some of those bad fairies and leprechauns over and Ireland when I was there.

But then the nuns told me they were just imaginary.

I'm so glad that they cleared up the issue about not worrying about imaginary entities.

BTW, evolution has been a workable theory watch longer since the 1960s.
 

everready

New member
Alllllll right then.

I was actually worried about some of those bad fairies and leprechauns over and Ireland when I was there.

But then the nuns told me they were just imaginary.

I'm so glad that they cleared up the issue about not worrying about imaginary entities.

BTW, evolution has been a workable theory watch longer since the 1960s.


And those evil spirits much longer than that.


everready
 

alwight

New member
The "new species" isn't incapable of producing viable offspring with the parent species because it's so vastly different. It's just because of a chromosomal duplication. This is your go-to "proof"? Lol!
It was the first I came across.
A new species of "goatsbeard" has been observed whether you like it or not.

"For example, there were the two new species of American goatsbeards (or salsifies, genus Tragopogon) that sprung into existence in the past century. In the early 1900s, three species of these wildflowers - the western salsify (T. dubius), the meadow salsify (T. pratensis), and the oyster plant (T. porrifolius) - were introduced to the United States from Europe. As their populations expanded, the species interacted, often producing sterile hybrids. But by the 1950s, scientists realized that there were two new variations of goatsbeard growing. While they looked like hybrids, they weren't sterile. They were perfectly capable of reproducing with their own kind but not with any of the original three species - the classic definition of a new species"
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/evolution-watching-speciation-occur-observations/
 

MichaelCadry

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
It was the first I came across.
A new species of "goatsbeard" has been observed whether you like it or not.

"For example, there were the two new species of American goatsbeards (or salsifies, genus Tragopogon) that sprung into existence in the past century. In the early 1900s, three species of these wildflowers - the western salsify (T. dubius), the meadow salsify (T. pratensis), and the oyster plant (T. porrifolius) - were introduced to the United States from Europe. As their populations expanded, the species interacted, often producing sterile hybrids. But by the 1950s, scientists realized that there were two new variations of goatsbeard growing. While they looked like hybrids, they weren't sterile. They were perfectly capable of reproducing with their own kind but not with any of the original three species - the classic definition of a new species"
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/evolution-watching-speciation-occur-observations/


Dear Alwight,

Excellent to hear from you. I'll bet life has it's surprises. I barely am getting on in the past couple days. I'll make a point of it to do so more often. My computer crashed today, and I had to call tech support three times before we finally got it mostly figured out. It's working fine now, except for the primary purpose that I called them in the first place. I can't get video to play when I call it up. The first guy fixed it and then he crashed my computer and couldn't help me anymore because I had Windows 10. I don't think it's even been out for a week so far. Anyway, I called another guy, and after a bit, he fixed everything in Safe Mode. Awesome dude. Sigh of relief!!

Thank God I did not have to reboot it from scratch. Believe me, I said a little prayer to Him. It was touch and go so often. The first tech demolished my computer and the second tech fixed almost everything, which is really wonderful.

Well, since I'm off-topic, tomorrow I'm having a Middle Eastern sour soup called Kishik. It's made from painting Greek Yogurt on paper and covering it will screens, and dried in the sun. After that, you get a powder that you harvest, and you take that powder/kishik, and put it into a well-greased butter pan in which you have sauteed some green onions/sliced and a large clove of garlic. Sort of like making gravy. You stir it up with a fork and make sure there are no lumps in it, then you add some water into it and add salt til it's to your liking. The more salt you add, the sourer it gets. But don't add too much salt or you will have to throw out dinner. You break some pita bread and dip in in the kishik, and it fills you up well.

The next day, I am making jederah. It is with fine bulghur wheat, chopped onion, some cooked and drained ground beef. Must get a cup or so of bulghur wheat. You cook the butter and kishik in a hot pan first, and get all of the lumps in it. Then I add a can of garbanzo beans and about a cup of more of spinach. Frozen or canned works fine. Drain the liquid real well first. I'll finished the recipe some other time, because some people have said that I am sharing to many recipes. I just thought that these two unique recipes might touch your palette indeed.

We had fish, and it turned out delicious. Thick Cod fillets. Cooked the other night. It is getting to be scarce from being over-fished. Same with lobster and crab. Something has to be done about it, and I'm proud to say that something is going to happen shortly. Many of our problems will be solved.

How's that for staying on topic. You all have a really good week ahead and Make It Count And Fun!! If you want my recipes for those two dishes, just let me know in a PM.

When you first started talking about goatsbeard, I thought you were talking about Brad Pitt or some others!! LOL!! Ok, I will check back with you later.

God Bless You Tons, Al!!

Michael

:wave2: :thumb: :cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel:
 

DavisBJ

New member
Retraction

Retraction

Making absolutist statements as strong as these are usually leads to trouble. If I setup an isolated system that meets the usual criteria (no energy going in or out of the system, no mass entering or leaving the system, highly disordered to start, but then at a later time find it highly ordered), would you admit this is hyperbole?
Thinking a bit about my example of two containers with 10 gas molecules in each. My idea is OK from a statistical standpoint, but as an example of a violation of the second law of thermo it lacks the necessary element of a difference in energy eigenstates as the mixture changes. It is a technical point, and probably not worth expounding on here, but I felt it important to acknowledge the error.

My apologies to 6days.
 

Stuu

New member
The "new species" isn't incapable of producing viable offspring with the parent species because it's so vastly different. It's just because of a chromosomal duplication. This is your go-to "proof"? Lol!
So you appreciate one of the mechanisms of evolutionary change then.

Stuart
 

alwight

New member
Dear Alwight,

Excellent to hear from you. I'll bet life has it's surprises. I barely am getting on in the past couple days. I'll make a point of it to do so more often. My computer crashed today, and I had to call tech support three times before we finally got it mostly figured out. It's working fine now, except for the primary purpose that I called them in the first place. I can't get video to play when I call it up. The first guy fixed it and then he crashed my computer and couldn't help me anymore because I had Windows 10. I don't think it's even been out for a week so far. Anyway, I called another guy, and after a bit, he fixed everything in Safe Mode. Awesome dude. Sigh of relief!!

Thank God I did not have to reboot it from scratch. Believe me, I said a little prayer to Him. It was touch and go so often. The first tech demolished my computer and the second tech fixed almost everything, which is really wonderful.
Hi Michael, sorry about your computer problems, I kind of warned you if it ain't broke don't fix it, I hope your tech guys haven't been cashing in at your expense? Windows 10 is free if you are already running a recent earlier version.
That said since I had already managed to break my main computer while still in Windows 8.1, I was invited by Microsoft to go to 10 after I just reloaded a clean 8.1, so there wasn't too much to lose since there wasn't much on it. Bit of an anti-climax really, I've even upgraded two laptops now without problem or cost. :)
 

The Barbarian

BANNED
Banned
Barbarian observes:
In the wild, mutations must survive the normal envirionment. And so, bacteria evolve new antibiotic resistance, they tend to be more robust than those which evolved in the lab.

No surprise there. Evolution works best in nature.

Evolution works best in a godless society, Communism, Atheism, & Humanism.

You may be surprised to hear this, but biology doesn't give a flip for your social/political/religious theories.

It just is. Reality is pretty tough, but it has the virture of being true.
 

everready

New member
Barbarian observes:
In the wild, mutations must survive the normal envirionment. And so, bacteria evolve new antibiotic resistance, they tend to be more robust than those which evolved in the lab.

No surprise there. Evolution works best in nature.



You may be surprised to hear this, but biology doesn't give a flip for your social/political/religious theories.

It just is. Reality is pretty tough, but it has the virture of being true.

Reality of it is you've taken to worship nature rather than the creator.


everready
 

everready

New member
Nature IS reality.

Imaginary, sentient, omnipotent, omniscient, anthropomorphic entities are not. Except in the vivid imaginations of people.

Imaginary you say? Jesus has a name which is above every name, how many times in a day do you use his name?


everready
 
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