Creation vs. Evolution

[Daniel1611]

6Days has been corrected many times on these exact misconceptions. But YECs need their misconceptions because without them they have no objections to real science. This is all part of their pinhead pseudo science to try and make others think they know what they are talking about. Ultimately the only result of their sleazy tactics is to undermine their own credibility.

Pseudo science like Piltdown Man? Piltdown chicken? Or any other assorted frauds that academia taught for decades and that "science " publications like National Geographic loves to print? These guys constantly lie, misrepresent and flat out defraud the public to support their pseudoscience of "evolution."

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael,

I was curious about this;

Is it possible you could outline your difficulties in determining a position?

Would it be the 'maturity' or appearance of age?

Dear JoelB,

I'm not sure what you are asking here. Let me know.

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cheers: :singer:

 

[6days]

My*beliefs are indeed formed around the generally accepted science as supported by reason and evidence rather than adherence to ancient scripture. Without science I wouldn't really know where to begin, since it provides rational answers that might otherwise have seemed supernatural.

Isn't it 'strange' that modern science was largely founded by people with an adherence to that ancient scripture? It was scripture which inspired them to discover how and why God did things.

In the modern era there are still thousands of scientists who adhere to that scripture... they work side by side with Muslims, Atheists Hindus etc. Science is not your beliefs about the past.*

The fact that they have not apparently succeeded in falsifying common descent rather suggests that they are simply adhering mindlessly to a literal Genesis regardless of peer reviewed science and the more general accepted consensus.*

Well as you know, evolutionists have not falsified the common Designer... and as you know, we are fortunate that science is not done by consensus.

You are simply doing here what PZ Myers complained about in that video, trivialising and dismissing perfectly good examples of transitional fossils and evidence, pretending it doesn't exist when clearly it does.*

OK. ... let's try this.

List the best example of something you consider transitional. I might even agree with you, but more than likely I will try explain why your beliefs are trumping good science.*

If transitional evidence is added to the growing list then for YECs it miraculously becomes two missing forms either side in the gap where there once only used to be one.*

Hey... good thinking!! Then instead of millions of missing transitionals, we can say billions!

 

[6days]

IOW, they evolved resistance.

Sure.

Likewise cars have evolved...philosophy has evolved... school curriculums evolve. Evolved means change. The change does not support your molecule to microbiologist belief system. The change in bacteria usually, if not always causes the bacteria to become less fit. For example, ribosomal mutations that confer antibiotic resistance cause slower growth rates....hinder protein synthesis and the bacteria is less able to compete / survive in non antibiotic resistant environment. Also it's been found that often if a bacteria has resistance to one antibiotic, it is even more susceptible to other antibiotics. *

This "evolution" of bacteria better fits the Biblical model where organisms have the genetic info allowing them to rapidly adapt to new environments. *The vast majority of bacteria are useful and necessary for life on earth. That some have become harmful is consistent with God's Word and the corrupted creation.

 

[The Barbarian]

6days writes:

‘Yet Gould [Stephen J. Gould—the now deceased professor of paleontology from Harvard University] and the American Museum people are hard to contradict when they say there are no transitional fossils. … You say that I should at least “show a photo of the fossil from which each type of organism was derived.”*I will lay it on the line—there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight argument.’

Well, let's take a look again (6days has been repeatedly reminded that what he posted is a lie, but let's show him again):

Since we proposed punctuated equilibria to explain trends, it is infuriating to be quoted again and again by creationists—whether through design or stupidity, I do not know—as admitting that the fossil record includes no transitional forms. Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups."
.
Stephen Jay Gould, Evolution as Fact and Theory, Hen's Teeth and Horse's Toes: Further Reflections in Natural History, New York: W. W. Norton & Company, 1994, p. 260

No matter how many times 6days is reminded, he waits a while and then tries to peddle the same dishonesty again and again.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Hi Michael,

I was curious about this;

Is it possible you could outline your difficulties in determining a position?

Would it be the 'maturity' or appearance of age?

Dear JoelB,

The appearance of age of the Universe and Earth, and all of the planets were all made in a few days. God made Adam and Eve aged. Instead of babies, they were young adults. Same with the animals on Earth, they are made aged instead of all babies. Same with the aquatic life in the oceans and lakes. Even the chickens were created aged, instead of God creating an egg instead. God created an aged Earth. That's one thing that man just can't handle. God said He made the Sun and Moon in those few 6 days. Who are we to argue with our Maker??

May God Protect You From Wolves,

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :singer: :cheers: :cloud9:

​

 

[alwight]

Isn't it 'strange' that modern science was largely founded by people with an adherence to that ancient scripture? It was scripture which inspired them to discover how and why God did things.

They had to start from ignorance before knowledge replaced superstition.

In the modern era there are still thousands of scientists who adhere to that scripture... they work side by side with Muslims, Atheists Hindus etc. Science is not your beliefs about the past.*

As long as they use the scientific method and peer review I don't mind that they have spiritual inclinations if they must.

Well as you know, evolutionists have not falsified the common Designer... and as you know, we are fortunate that science is not done by consensus.

Evidence-free bald assertions are not testable nor falsifiable. Scientific conclusions may not always be correct but if there is no way falsify them then it is not science just worthless bald assertion.

OK. ... let's try this.

List the best example of something you consider transitional. I might even agree with you, but more than likely I will try explain why your beliefs are trumping good science.*

Just watch that video PZ Myers lists a long list of transitional species for the whale that creationists pretend don't exist.

Hey... good thinking!! Then instead of millions of missing transitionals, we can say billions!

You do already.

 

[MichaelCadry]

MichaelCadry,
re: "What do you mean that a site search came back negative?"

I did a search of this topic and received the reply that nothing was found.



re: "You do know it means those animals with cloven hooves."

Actually, Leviticus says the clean animals are those who have cloven hooves and who chew the cud. Both those characteristics need to present in order for the animal to be considered clean.



re: "...we are also not to eat any aquatic life that does not have a fin?"


The answer is yes, if the animal also doesn't have true scales. Leviticus 11:9-10: "These you may eat of all that are in the water: whatever in the water has fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the rivers; that you may eat. But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you."



re: "Do you have any of those rstrats?"

I do not knowingly eat any of the animals that are classified as unclean.

Dear rstrats,

Excellent for you, rstrats! I am working on changing my foods more carefully.

Praise God And Jesus, And The Holy Ghost!!

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cheers: :cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, don't you think that if God really had wanted messages transmitted to humanity that it could have been done rather more effectively than entrusting it to you?
It seems to me that it's you who has put yourself in the middle of a fantasy scenario of your own choosing, or how exactly was this thrust on you, angels?
Angels that only you have seen?
What exactly have you "witnessed" that cannot be said by the less trusting to simply be very bald and empty assertions derived only from inside your head?


Michael works in mysterious ways?


You used to tell us iirc that the Moon was Jesus/God's throne from where He looks down on us, and that the eternal lake of fire was actually at the centre of the Earth, or was it the sun?
Could you not be mistaken?

Dear alwight,

I don't know if I got to reply to this last paragraph of yours. Yes on all cases, except the eternal lake of fire was our Sun, but when it burns out, God will provide another Sun as long as forever goes. I could not be mistaken. I also said that Jesus said to us Himself, "I am the bright and morning star." {Rev. 22:16KJV} That's Venus. And He said, 'To him will I give the morning star, even as I have received it from My Father.' {Rev. 2:28KJV}.

Praises and Cheerio!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Thank you, Michael, for the refreshing honesty. In return, I have decided that after this post, I will undertake a self-imposed hiatus from this thread for a couple of weeks. I do it because I fear this exchange is getting too close to a “you are bullying me” type of situation, where your stance is shown to be idiotic again and again. When your personal perception of reality keeps getting demolished, then what is left? Rather than force you into that corner, I will leave you alone for at least a while. Later, if you are still engaging in obnoxious dishonesty, then I may revaluate my position.

I conclude by pointing out once again how easily you declare God has answered you, only to show that answer was just hot air. Less than one week ago, you declared:

Look at how meaningful that answer to prayer must have been in light of what you just posted.

Your vacation from DavisBJ commences now.

BJ,

A vacation? Yippee!! I know you are taking it for other reasons. I am hitting nerves that you don't want me to, like the tons of mistakes you are making in your life by the believing in God, Jesus, the Holy Ghost, John the Baptist, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Daniel, John of Patmos, the disciples, Paul, Cornelius, Moses, Abraham, Elijah... I could go on all evening. You are the mistake maker, and you have the nerve to jump all over me for my two mistakes. I really don't want to hear about your vacation! You're just afraid of being found out and you know it. You are so far down the pit, you don't know what to do, eh?

Enjoy your vacation!! You've just tried to 'trash' me all that you could and now you're tired and out of ammunition, and bullets are flying by your way, right? I sure wish you had it together yourself.

Michael

 

[6days]

Well, let's take a look again (6days has been repeatedly reminded that what he posted is a lie, but let's show him again):

Since we proposed punctuated equilibria to explain trends,*it is infuriating to be quoted again and again by creationists—whether through design or stupidity, I do not know—as admitting that the fossil record includes no transitional forms. Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups."Stephen Jay Gould, Evolution as Fact and Theory, Hen's Teeth ...

Waaaaa waaaaa waaaaa

Crocodile tears from the dishonest Barbarian.

You failed to note I was accurately quoting Colin Patterson who accurately quoted Gould.

This ....
Collin Patterson, paleontologist said "If I knew of any, (evolutionary transitions) fossil or living, I would certainly have included them (in my book) . You suggest that an artist should be used to visualise such transformations, but where would he get the information from? I could not, honestly, provide it, and if I were to leave it to artistic licence, would that not mislead the reader?’
......
‘Yet Gould [Stephen J. Gould—the now deceased professor of paleontology from Harvard University] and the American Museum people are hard to contradict when they say there are no transitional fossils. … You say that I should at least “show a photo of the fossil from which each type of organism was derived.”*I will lay it on the line—there is not one such fossil for which one could make a watertight argument.’
.......
The reason is that statements about ancestry and descent are not applicable in the fossil record. Is Archaeopteryx the ancestor of all birds? Perhaps yes, perhaps no: there is no way of answering the question."

 

[6days]

(Creationist father's of modern science) had to start from ignorance before knowledge replaced superstition.

You need brush up on your history. They replaced aristotolean superstition with the knowledge that God created things with purpose and design. *They fathered many fields of science with the knowledge and belief that purpose and order could be discovered.*

In the modern era there are still thousands of scientists who adhere to that scripture... they work side by side with Muslims, Atheists Hindus etc. Science is not your beliefs about the past.

As long as they use the scientific method and peer review I don't mind that they have spiritual inclinations if they must.

Likewise.... I don't mind if atheists, Muslims and even agnostics perform science using the*scientific method and peer review. I don't mind that they have spiritual inclinations (if they must

Evidence-free bald assertions are not testable nor falsifiable. Scientific conclusions may not always be correct but if there is no way falsify them then it is not science just worthless bald assertion.*

100% agree.

 

[MichaelCadry]

I am sorry Michael, but while I applaud your motive here and your initiative, I do not agree that all else is trivial. Methodology is at least as important as the goal, if not more so. And accuracy about the reality around us is of utmost importance no matter what the goal.

Dear noguru,

No, you're not sorry. And you don't applaud my motive or initiative. You are just twisted on purpose. You say instead whatever suits you to make you look good. Who are you joking really, noguru??

Your methodology for being "accurate" has much to be desired. You are not thorough in your own research nor have you developed useful critical thinking skills. Also you think that the "authority" of another person who claims to be a Christian is somehow a free ticket to authority and therefore accuracy.

Like I've said, I've been wrong about a couple things. How much ham, and pork and bacon, and crab legs, clams, oysters, etc., do you eat every year? That's one of my mistakes. I am fixing it by changing my diet. How about you?

Now as to my mistake no. 1, I am uncertain right now if I am a YEC or and OEC. That being the case, the rest of what I say is true. So how much accuracy do you need?? Did you read my book all the way through? How can you comment on what you don't fully know? You're just relying on DavisBJ to do all the reading, eh. Well, that didn't help either. God's Kingdom is not going to fall regardless of what BJ wants to say. His Kingdom shall be on Earth, as it is in Heaven. In other words, I've told you, my blunder doesn't make a big difference, like you think it does. Do you think that God cares if I am a YEC or OEC? He will tell me to a fine-tune when I face Him in Heaven. Go thou, O perfect one.

If you consider what you are doing here, perhaps you might be open to seeing the error in your methodology.

What I am doing here is trying to prepare others for the Lord's Coming, and all shall see His Glory on Earth. People will lose their faith and God does not want that to happen. He wants me to let people know that they are loved and forgiven, and that they should not listen to the devil, who will try to take away their inheritance from them. You have no idea what will go on, noguru. Hold on to your faith FIRMLY until you are with the Lord in Heaven. NEVER SAY DIE. NEVER GIVE UP, NO MATTER WHAT THE DEVIL SAYS!! You don't know what is going to go on noguru. You are oblivious to the immediate future because you are stuck in your little world of you're the cat's meow out of everyone. Will Elias come before the Lord Jesus' Return just as he came by way of John the Baptist, who prepared the way of the Lord on Earth. People will learn tons more from my book than you think. I can tell by the excerpts that BJ quoted here a few posts back that yes, the truth is getting to others. And whether I am OEC or YEC in the book or in my life, doesn't matter a lot considering all else that is in my book. I don't know why God is doing this. Perhaps He wants both OECs and YECs to understand He loves them both very much. I know He does. And He loves you too, noguru, but He does not like everything you do. Well, I've got other posts to go to. Will chat again quite soon!

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel:

 

[MichaelCadry]

This is inaccurate Micheal, science is not relying on "Holy Scripture" in this example. People who are investigating "Holy Scripture" are relying on science to aid in the authentication/verification of any claims about such text.

Oh yeah, and science was just studying the Great Flood because the Christians asked them to? Science and Theology do mix often, let's face it. Science was wrong about the Piltdown {Filed down is more like it}, carbon-14 dating, and Lucy, whom they did not have a full skeleton of her, so they made some parts {in the legs?} out of wood to have a complete skeleton, trying to fake people out. I'm done with this redundant conversation, but I can keep up with it as long as you like.

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cheers:

 

[MichaelCadry]

So Michael, let me get this straight.

You are afraid of hell and damnation, but you are not afraid of being inaccurate?

Isn't everyone inaccurate about some things almost every day or week, or month? Pick your time-frame. How about you? Have you made any mistakes before.

I'm not afraid of hell and damnation. God and Jesus protect me from that. It is possible that during the 3 and 1/2 days after my death, I will be sent to Hell for that short time, to go through the fire, and overcome Hell also. I will make it and never give up my birthright to any devil. Especially after years of fighting with him. You don't know what my life has been like since I was 18 years old. Forty years so far. Forty one years come this Oct. 12th.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

So Michael, let me get this straight.

You are afraid of hell and damnation, but you are not afraid of being inaccurate?

Also, I want you to know that it won't let me give you any more good rep pts. just yet. That's all for now.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Again, I do not see your protests here as negating my conclusions about your choices and methodology. You are inept at most things Michael, and science is only one of those many things.

The facade I speak of is in regard to your level of confidence in any position you take on a matter. Not in you "not being you". Do you understand? It is not that you are not being you, it is the level of confidence that you advertise (to the public) about your opinions.

That's because I know that most of what I say are facts. Just because I'm not sure about one of them does not change anything as much as you think or how God thinks. I learn from my mistakes and am thankful for that because it just helps me more. These two witnesses can cause all manner of plagues upon the Earth as they wish. Noguru, I told you that I have written proof that God has visited me and He is WITH ME. He sent 7 inches of snow for me so a reporter would know that God was with me after all. He was terrified and was phoning constantly even up until I got home from work at ABC-TV, New York. I lived in Manhattan. It was expensive. I made it. Lived on Staten Island also for awhile. In fact, the snow began to fall on the morning that I was riding the ferry and the snow started falling. At first, I was bummed, but a voice in my ear said, 'this is the snow that God promised you to uphold you.' God has also backed me up by sending heavy rains on places, and an electric storm on a Temple in Miami Beach, where Uri Geller was addressing some Jewish people and was bending spoons and moving watch hands with his right hand and his mind {forehead}. I told a policeman at the police dept. that lightning would strike a corner of the Temple that evening. Well I was across the street watching the horrendous electrical storm and I repented of God striking a corner of the building, because someone might get hurt. So, after a while, the storm ceased. No rain. Just lightning. I should have just let God hit the bldg. so I'd be proven right. But what is most important?? I'll end this for now. I'm telling you stuff that isn't even in my book, but it is new stuff that also happened to me. I have not included everything in my book or it would be many pages longer and people wouldn't want to read a long book, more than likely. God guides me just fine, noguru!

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cheers:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Again, I do not see your protests here as negating my conclusions about your choices and methodology. You are inept at most things Michael, and science is only one of those many things.

The facade I speak of is in regard to your level of confidence in any position you take on a matter. Not in you "not being you". Do you understand? It is not that you are not being you, it is the level of confidence that you advertise (to the public) about your opinions.

I have a bit more to say about this post of yours, noguru. I am not INEPT just because YOU say so!! You just hope everyone will believe you. I understand enough about science and I learn more every day. But I don't always agree with it. Yes, I understand about not being me. I am confident with most all that I say. How about you, noguru? Can you say the same thing?

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Your quandary is based on a misunderstanding. It is not a fact.

Sexual reproduction appears first in animals that reproduced asexually. And the variation, which was novel at one point, was passed on in breeding populations. If you truly understood what is proposed in these areas of study, you would not have even asked this question.

You are really full of baloney, aren't you, noguru? God created them, male and female. Do you recall anything like that?? Not asexual, you donkey. What a booper!!

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

If the flying spaghetti monster created it all, why would it matter how long it took? Could He have not done it in a day?

God is not a flying spaghetti monster only to someone treating Him irreverently and you know it Hedshaker. I can't believe how you are talking. What joy do you get out of speaking blasphemies about God?

All creatures evolved, that's why it's called evolution. Humans share a common ancestor with the great apes. It's not that difficult to understand.

All creatures did not evolve! That's why evolution is just a big farce. And God created Humans separately from those great apes. You should know better. You're going to have to come up with something good when you face God, which you will. He will not like what you've been doing.

I love you Hedshaker, but not your awful talk against my God.

Well you best inform the scientific community so they can organize your Nobel prize. Good luck with that

He'll get a Nobel prize before you will!!

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel: :cheers: :singer: :cloud9: