Creation vs. Evolution

[Daniel1611]

For not being upset with it, you sure unleash a bunch of invectives against those who believe in it.

Why is that stupid?

Come on. Hydrogen evolving into people? Here in reality, things don't come to life like frosty the snowman.

 

[MichaelCadry]

:chuckle:

Evolutionists want everything to be evolution. So much so that they will take the creationist argument and pretend it is evolution.

Dear Sealeaf,

Chickens lay eggs and turtles also lay eggs. Is that what you mean?

Michael

 

[DavisBJ]

Come on. Hydrogen evolving into people? Here in reality, things don't come to life like frosty the snowman.

That's it? No specifics, just general venting?

 

[MichaelCadry]

The problem with Paschal's Wager is that belief in God is not sufficient to be saved:

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Dear The Barbarian,

You are right. I didn't understand what Pascal's Wager meant. I do know that Faith, without works, is dead.

Thanks for the heads-up.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

The problem with Pascal's Wager is that it applies equally to all religions. And one could even argue that perhaps God rewards those who accept the world for what it is, think critically, and value logic and reason over blind faith, and therefore...just to be safe...you should live accordingly.

Dear Jose Fly,

God rewards those who value and logic and reason, and faith in Him, so just to be safe, you should live accordingly. Thanks Jose for caring.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

I whole heartedly agree. KNOWING is far superior to believing.

Dear StanJ,

Yes, KNOWING is far better than just believing. We are both to that point in our lives.

Michael

:cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Clearly you are a Presuppositionalist Stan.:sherlock:

"Presuppositionalists compare their presupposition against other ultimate standards such as reason, empirical experience, and subjective feeling, claiming presupposition in this context is:
a belief that takes precedence over another and therefore serves as a criterion for another. An ultimate presupposition is a belief over which no other takes precedence. For a Christian, the content of Scripture must serve as his ultimate presupposition… This doctrine is merely the outworking of the lordship of God in the area of human thought. It merely applies the doctrine of scriptural infallibility to the realm of knowing."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presuppositional_apologetics

I make no apology for using another Wiki page here as a reference.
You may not have come across another poster here called Hilston, who to my knowledge hasn't posted here recently btw, who, like you simply presupposes that the Bible must be the one and only possible source for a religious belief and that no greater explanation, verification or rationality is necessary.
For Presuppositionists it is simply irrational not to accept the Bible and everything it says as literally God's word.
Hilston btw was/is a very articulate wordsmith but for me an utterly baffling person requiring no empirical rationality at all, just an apparently mindless presupposition.


Oh come on, it's hardly cricket to surprise people in the street, shove a microphone up their nose and then try to bamboozle them with nonsensical reasons to doubt evolution, based apparently on not actually being able to see it happening. :doh:

Why exactly must Darwinian evolution actually be observed to be an accurate explanation of the evidence anyway?
Darwinian evolution is what it is, a naturalistic explanation of the evidence, which btw convinces me rather more than an un-observed supposed miraculous creation event a few thousand years ago.
Do we look at just some of the evidence, say rock strata or the geological column, perhaps containing specific marine fossils in one layer and terrestrial ones in another and not reasonably conclude that this is chronological evidence of past events simply because we didn't actually observe it happening?
Why should we not reasonably conclude the great age of the Earth at least from such evidence, and more, even if we didn't actually witness it happened. It's entirely reasonable imo to make rational intelligent deductions using more than one of our limited senses.

It seemed to me like you meant my mindset, but never mind.

You are a Presuppositionist Stan, I don't think I'll ever understand that.
Otoh I am not, I want to see reasonably convincing rational evidence before I believe. Ancient scripture is not something I personally find convincing while apparently it makes no difference to you because you have simply presupposed your belief in it regardless.

If you could rationally demonstrate with perhaps rather less bias the clear rationality that other beliefs lack then that might help here, but all you have is the usual bald assertions it seems.
Clearly to hope that you would ever allow yourself to have any doubts now after all these years that you have invested in it, would probably be futile.
You have presupposed your religious beliefs and built a barrier to deflect any science that might just dent your shiny YEC armour of belief.

Morton's Demon:
"When I was a YEC, I had a demon that did similar things for me that Maxwell’s demon did for thermodynamics. Morton’s demon was a demon who sat at the gate of my sensory input apparatus and if and when he saw supportive evidence coming in, he opened the gate. But if he saw contradictory data coming in, he closed the gate. In this way, the demon allowed me to believe that I was right and to avoid any nasty contradictory data. Fortunately, I eventually realized that the demon was there and began to open the gate when he wasn’t looking."
(Glenn Morton)

Dear alwight,

I have had God visit me, and angels, and the Holy Ghost, and have had a number of visions. You won't believe me either, even though I'm not just basing my beliefs on an ancient book called the Bible. So what can I do? I just love you anyway.

One Who Has Been There And Back,

Michael

:angrymob:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael, can I live forever and ever, too?

Dear DavisBJ,

If you put yourself in the hands of God and Jesus Christ, you can live forever and ever also.

Michael


:angrymob:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Only a complete fool says in their heart that there is no God. Most evolutionists know they're wrong deep down. I used to be a big believer in evolution but I knew deep down it was garbage and I finally admitted it. Only a total fool says in their heart that there is no God.

Dear Daniel1611,

Thanks for your proclamation. It is wonderful for you and I am so happy for you also. You were redeemed/saved after hard odds against you and you deserve to be with God forever!!

Thanks For Having Been There!!

Michael

:cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

My experience was the mirror image of yours. I was raised in a strong religious home, and I was fervent in my beliefs. But ultimately I saw weaknesses in religion that I could no longer countenance.

We do differ inasmuch as I don’t feel a need to demonize those who differ with me. Having been on both sides, I can understand why there can be completely sincere people in both camps.

Dear Davis,

Oh, I didn't know you used to be raised in a strong religious home. I'm not sure you ever mentioned that to me. Wow! Then it is really hopeless for me to try to convince you otherwise. I am shocked. Well, this is a horse of a different color. I'm sorry you did not receive what you were looking for in a strong, religious home. I sure did luck out. I've been visited by the Lord, had angel visits, Holy Ghost visits and a number of visions. Lucky me. It's because I believed and love Him so deeply, I think, which is why all of this happened to me.

God Bless You DavisBJ, Sincerely,

Michael

:angel: :angel: :angel:

 

[DavisBJ]

Dear DavisBJ,

If you put yourself in the hands of God and Jesus Christ, you can live forever and ever also.

Michael


:angrymob:

Great. I am a little bit tall (6’ 3”), and when I was a teen everyone said I should go out for basketball. I tried it. I sucked at it. So I quit.

But ever since, I have wanted to do something really spectacular in the way of basketball. If I live forever, I am going to take a bit of time for myself, and go to the far end of the basketball court, and throw full-court shots through the hoop. But since I will have time, I am gonna do it with my back to the hoop, with my eyes shut. I am gonna keep going until I get 500 consecutive backwards, over the head, eyes shut, full court, baskets. I figure it might take me a couple billion years to do it, but hey, that’s less than a billionth of a trillionth of forever, right?

 

[StanJ]

Great. I am a little bit tall (6’ 3”), and when I was a teen everyone said I should go out for basketball. I tried it. I sucked at it. So I quit.

Same here almost. 6'4" and I sucked at basketball. Bad hand eye coordination, but I was good at softball!

 

[MichaelCadry]

I only see them when OTHERS comment on their posts by quoting them.

Well it's not a prediction, just a hope. I've been here before, over two years ago, and did get my fill back then, when I left. It's been slow on the other forums I'm on so came back here. Don't know how long I'll stick around, but so far it's worth it.

Dear StanJ,

I'm glad you came back and I do hope that you'll stay. You've been a marvelous addition to this thread, that's for sure!

May God Bless You Here!!!
Michael

:cloud9: :guitar:

 

[patrick jane]

very informative thread -

 

[MichaelCadry]

Did I not admit to that Alwight?

Didn't expect you to Alwight. Just made my own observation. I may look for something to see how accurate Wiki actually is on stuff it publishes?

How so? There were some very knowledgeable people on there who were kinda lost. The point was to show how much faith those people actually use that THEY themselves cannot support, yet we as Christians are always asked to support our faith with so-called facts. I wonder how you would have done had you been approached in this video?

The point is people like you and I have our minds set on what we believe, but MANY, as is indicated in this video, don't really know why they believe how they do yet evolutionary apologetics will use stats that say MOST educated people believe in Evolution. They sure didn't look very educated, if to me. :crackup:

I don't know because I am NOT of that opinion. I'm NOT God and I do NOT purport to even be anywhere near understanding Him other than what His Written Word tells me. I can tell you that as He did create a man and woman that would have been considered in their late teens but were only a few minutes old, and a universe that was a day old but obviously appeared much older, I'll leave the details as to HOW He did it to Him. Man's attempt in trying to understand through his own very limited abilities, is just plain arrogance.

Yes Alwight, charged and accepted, and I've dealt with the scriptural issue as well.

According to who's rational? I have doubted many thing in my life, but God has proved Himself always regardless of how unfaithful I have been. Can you say the same about your faith in this science?

I think quoting Glenn Morton here is very disingenuous, given he became apostate and fell off ALL his beliefs. If his own cognitive dissonance got the better of him so be it. I'm not to worried about one so-called believer that turned out NOT to be. So called Empirical rationalists are also surprised at how bad his flip flop was or is. In any event do the right thing for the wrong reasons is always wrong for the person doing it, not for the cause he is committed to. Many false Christians have used God's word to preach, but look at what God says in Is 55:11 (NIV)

Dear StanJ,

You said just the right things to get you into Heaven. Congratulations!! Your scriptural reference is also impeccable. Thanks for being there.

God Bless You Tons,

Michael

:angrymob:

 

[MichaelCadry]

They're all full of it. They teach kids garbage and pass it off as science. They get defensive when you point it out, but essentially they teach that everything came from nothing by itself once upon a time. It's a stupid idea and they know it's stupid. The academics that study evolution specifically are mostly just a bunch of Trekkie's promoting their religion of evolution.

Dear Daniel1611,

Congratulations, Daniel!! You made your decision to change to believing in God and Jesus at just the right time! You'll find out what I mean soon!! Welcome to Jesus Saves!!

God Bless Your Soul,

Michael

:cloud9: :angel: :angel: :angel:

 

[MichaelCadry]

very informative thread -

Dear Patrick jane,

Hey, glad to see you here!! It's been a while, pj. Thanks for your remark about this thread. It's full of great people. I just love all of the friends I've made here, whether they believe in God and Jesus, or not. Here's hoping that some will change their minds after checking out both sides. That's all I can hope for this thread. It seems to be helping, to be honest!!

God Be With You, Patrick,

Michael

:guitar: :cloud9:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Great. I am a little bit tall (6’ 3”), and when I was a teen everyone said I should go out for basketball. I tried it. I sucked at it. So I quit.

But ever since, I have wanted to do something really spectacular in the way of basketball. If I live forever, I am going to take a bit of time for myself, and go to the far end of the basketball court, and throw full-court shots through the hoop. But since I will have time, I am gonna do it with my back to the hoop, with my eyes shut. I am gonna keep going until I get 500 consecutive backwards, over the head, eyes shut, full court, baskets. I figure it might take me a couple billion years to do it, but hey, that’s less than a billionth of a trillionth of forever, right?

Dear DavisBJ,

I never knew you were that tall!! I'm sure you would rather be exploring the Universe than playing basketball, if you make it to Heaven. You will have lost all interest in basketball. Your spirit will live on a star as it says in Daniel 12:3. Please read it, Davis.

Tons Of Love Coming Your Way!!

Michael

:cloud9: :cloud9: :angel: :angel:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

I have to go for a couple hours. Hope to get back to you then!!

Michael

 

[DavisBJ]

Dear DavisBJ,

... You will have lost all interest in basketball. ...

Michael

What?? No basketball?? When I have waited all these longs years, and now you say it ain’t gonna happen? I know what I’m going to do. Just like Huck Finn, I’m going to choose to go to that other place, where the boss has a trident and horns, and things are much more interesting than just strumming harps.