Creation vs. Evolution

[Kdall]

The article says "Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) indicates that all women have descended from a single woman, called mitochondrial Eve.1 This does not prove that she was the only woman alive at the time, but is consistent with it. High mutation rates indicate that this ancestor lived at about the time of the biblical Eve as well. "

Actually it proves that all people were descended from her. And Y chromosome Adam, who all males' Y chromosome genetics can be traced back to, is almost 100% certain to never have met her, or even lived in the same millenia.

Are you good with Eve and Adam not ever having mated?

 

[Kdall]

The article says "Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) indicates that all women have descended from a single woman, called mitochondrial Eve.1 This does not prove that she was the only woman alive at the time, but is consistent with it. High mutation rates indicate that this ancestor lived at about the time of the biblical Eve as well. "

Actually it proves that all people today were descended from her. And Y chromosome Adam, who all males' Y chromosome genetics can be traced back to, is almost 100% certain to never have met her, or even lived in the same millenia.

Are you good with Eve and Adam not ever having mated?


If you cannot find at least one non-YEC source either saying that

A. Mitochondrial Eve and Adam were probably alive at the same time, or
B. That either lived sooner than 70,000 years ago,

Then you've got nothing

 

[MichaelCadry]

I envy people who can play a 12 string.

But in terms of how old you "feel" the earth is----you are missing the point. There is substantial evidence from many, many sources that indicates the earth is in fact about 4.5 billions years old. You should not need "feelings" to understand that.

Dear Jonahdog,

You don't understand. My feelings help tell me what is true. Some scientists say that it is 4.5 Billion Years. How about a trillion? Let's go for that. Who is man to know what happened 1 Billion years ago, much less 4.5? Man is not God. My feelings tell me that God knows when He created Earth and the Universe. So I go with my feelings. My choice is that I'd rather wait until He tells me when I face Him, rather than pass judgement that it's actually been 4.5 billion years. Especially when He told us different in the Creation of the Bible. God could easily ensnare man to believe whatever He wants, to divide the people into what to believe, Him or Science? From what I understand, the Universe is still expanding flatly. I'll wait until Jesus returns. I'll find out faster that way!!

God Bless You Dearly!

Michael

:cheers:

:angel:

P.S. Yes, I know you are an atheist.

 

[MichaelCadry]

I envy people who can play a 12 string.

But in terms of how old you "feel" the earth is----you are missing the point. There is substantial evidence from many, many sources that indicates the earth is in fact about 4.5 billions years old. You should not need "feelings" to understand that.

Dear Jonahdog,

Scientists have tried to 'Date' other things and found their 'Dating' methods were incorrect after many, many years, so I don't believe ANY of their DATING.

Thanks anyway!

Michael

atrol:

:angel:

 

[Kdall]

Dear Jonahdog,

You don't understand. My feelings help tell me what is true. Some scientists say that it is 4.5 Billion Years. How about a trillion? Let's go for that. Who is man to know what happened 1 Billion years ago, much less 4.5? Man is not God. My feelings tell me that God knows when He created Earth and the Universe. So I go with my feelings. My choice is that I'd rather wait until He tells me when I face Him, rather than pass judgement that it's actually been 4.5 billion years. Especially when He told us different in the Creation of the Bible. God could easily ensnare man to believe whatever He wants, to divide the people into what to believe, Him or Science? From what I understand, the Universe is still expanding flatly. I'll wait until Jesus returns. I'll find out faster that way!!

God Bless You Dearly!

Michael

:cheers:

:angel:

P.S. Yes, I know you are an atheist.

Man is not God, and God did not write the Bible. Men did, and then made thousands of copies and translations of the original documents, of which we have none today. We can't know what the first and only true books of the Bible said.

I'm sure you know that Roman Emperor Constantine is responsible for picking all books included in today's Protestant canon? Do you have faith that one mortal man chose the correct inclusions? There are over 100 godpels. 4 were included.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael all it takes to find answers is seeking them out from people who study scripture, science, or both for a living.

Dear Kdall,

Brother, with all respect I tell you, some answers found by science people are not always true. Some answers purported by 'insane evangelical pastors' are not true also. Like Jim Jones or David Koresh, etc. Make sure you don't fall prey to either of those.

Praise God!!

Michael

:angel:

:up:

 

[Kdall]

Dear Kdall,

Brother, with all respect I tell you, some answers found by science people are not always true. Some answers purported by 'insane evangelical pastors' are not true also. Like Jim Jones or David Koresh, etc. Make sure you don't fall prey to either of those.

Praise God!!

Michael

:angel:

:up:

Most modern church authorities within both Catholicism and Protestantism would put Ken Ham on the 'insane pastors' list.

Koresh and Jones were responsible for two of the most famous cult-related mass murder/homicides in the 20th century. They weren't pastors that any outside of their small circle of followers believed in.

If you don't want to go to science, I also suggested theological/scriptural scholars. They as a whole have the best understanding of the Bible than anybody else

 

[MichaelCadry]

Data means the entirety of it. Not leaving out inconvenient parts. Well, at least to non-YECs

It's been a rough few hours for you on here buddy

Dear Kdall,

Do you think Adam never had sex with Eve? How else did she bear Cain and Abel, and later Seth?? Get your eyes into the Bible instead of all the nut job articles you read. Here's something to read:

Age of the earth
101 evidences for a young age of the earth and the universe

by Don Batten
Published: 4 June 2009(GMT+10)

there is much evidence for a young age of the earth

There are many categories of evidence for the age of the earth and the cosmos that indicate they are much younger than is generally asserted today.
Can science prove the age of the earth?

No scientific method can prove the age of the earth and the universe, and that includes the ones we have listed here. Although age indicators are called ‘clocks’ they aren’t, because all ages result from calculations that necessarily involve making assumptions about the past. Always the starting time of the ‘clock’ has to be assumed as well as the way in which the speed of the clock has varied over time. Further, it has to be assumed that the clock was never disturbed.

There is no independent natural clock against which those assumptions can be tested. For example, the amount of cratering on the moon, based on currently observed cratering rates, would suggest that the moon is quite old. However, to draw this conclusion we have to assume that the rate of cratering has been the same in the past as it is now. And there are now good reasons for thinking that it might have been quite intense in the past, in which case the craters do not indicate an old age at all.

Hey, it turns out I don't have to go right now. Thanks, bro!!

Michael

:angel:

:cheers:

 

[Kdall]

Dear Kdall,

Do you think Adam never had sex with Eve? How else did she bear Cain and Abel, and later Seth?? Get your eyes into the Bible instead of all the nut job articles you read. He's something to read:

Age of the earth
101 evidences for a young age of the earth and the universe

by Don Batten
Published: 4 June 2009(GMT+10)

there is much evidence for a young age of the earth

There are many categories of evidence for the age of the earth and the cosmos that indicate they are much younger than is generally asserted today.
Can science prove the age of the earth?

No scientific method can prove the age of the earth and the universe, and that includes the ones we have listed here. Although age indicators are called ‘clocks’ they aren’t, because all ages result from calculations that necessarily involve making assumptions about the past. Always the starting time of the ‘clock’ has to be assumed as well as the way in which the speed of the clock has varied over time. Further, it has to be assumed that the clock was never disturbed.

There is no independent natural clock against which those assumptions can be tested. For example, the amount of cratering on the moon, based on currently observed cratering rates, would suggest that the moon is quite old. However, to draw this conclusion we have to assume that the rate of cratering has been the same in the past as it is now. And there are now good reasons for thinking that it might have been quite intense in the past, in which case the craters do not indicate an old age at all.

Well, I've got to go for a couple hours. Will be back to answer more then. Thanks, bro!!

Michael

:angel:

:cheers:

Michael that clock you speak of could be speed of light, radiometric dating, plate tectonics, fossil record, and other such realities that 99.7% of scientists worldwide accept to be tried, tested, and true. All pharmaceutical and medical advancements in the past 50 years or so are based off of evolutionary theory, for example.

If you have are so firmly set to one unprovable belief and will not allow any fact to sway you, then you are too closed-minded to be convinced of anything that you don't already believe. I mean no personal disrespect by this, but if you aren't open to the possibility of other views having validity then why discuss at all? You already have all the answers in your mind.


PS: the moon has no atmosphere. You can literally see every impact that's ever hit it. Earth does, and only the most unbelievably massive craters leave traces behind more than a million years later. One such crater in under the ocean off of Yucatan. This is the impact crater made by the strike that was somewhat respomsible for the dinosaurs' extinction.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Man is not God, and God did not write the Bible. Men did, and then made thousands of copies and translations of the original documents, of which we have none today. We can't know what the first and only true books of the Bible said.

I'm sure you know that Roman Emperor Constantine is responsible for picking all books included in today's Protestant canon? Do you have faith that one mortal man chose the correct inclusions? There are over 100 godpels. 4 were included.

Dear Kdall,

We have found Dead Sea Scrolls, and other scrolls also, that confirm some of our Scriptures. Now, I'm surely not thrilled with Constantine picking the books in the Bible. He also changed the Sabbath to be celebrated on Sunday, when it should be celebrated on Saturday. All of Christianity is affected by that. But, it's not the end of the world because of it. People can learn better and adjust back to the real truth, once they know better. Now, I can see where your hesitation comes from. But Kdall, your way gives us the promise that NO BOOK can be considered the Truth. You might notice that the 4 gospels that were included are quite similar to each other, so chances are good that they are true.

Well, Kdall, I am so glad you are a Christian and have found your way through the negatives and the positives. But you have no way to prove any thing that you believe and for you, no one else can either, because Constantine might have picked the wrong translations. That's rough. I'll just go ahead and stick with the Bible, and keep what you've said, in mind.

Thanks Brother, In Christ,

Michael

:angel:

:cheers:

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael that clock you speak of could be speed of light, radiometric dating, plate tectonics, fossil record, and other such realities that 99.7% of scientists worldwide accept to be tried, tested, and true. All pharmaceutical and medical advancements in the past 50 years or so are based off of evolutionary theory, for example.

Dear Kdall,

The clock I speak of is none of what you offered, but is instead, a priceless timepiece of God and Jesus. It doesn't depend on the speed of light, radiometric dating, etc. It is instead a brilliant, wise, unfathomable instance of True Excellent Genius that is almost impossible to understand. I don't buy the 99.7% of anyone. You have to watch where you are getting your information from. If science says 99.7%, it does not make it true.

If you have are so firmly set to one unprovable belief and will not allow any fact to sway you, then you are too closed-minded to be convinced of anything that you don't already believe. I mean no personal disrespect by this, but if you aren't open to the possibility of other views having validity then why discuss at all? You already have all the answers in your mind.

I can't say that I have all of the answers. But I am comfortable with most that I have, so that's a good, comforting thing for me. I am not close-minded. Why didn't Jesus dispute the story of the Creation while He was on Earth?? Or the whole Old Testament? He read from the book of Isaiah, for instance. God was with Him.

PS: the moon has no atmosphere. You can literally see every impact that's ever hit it. Earth does, and only the most unbelievably massive craters leave traces behind more than a million years later. One such crater in under the ocean off of Yucatan. This is the impact crater made by the strike that was somewhat respomsible for the dinosaurs' extinction.

This is all only according to the science that you have read. You will also note the Meteor Crater. And what is the Grand Canyon all about? You see, I live in Phoenix, AZ. It's nice here. Whatever temp. you like, you can move to different elevations here to get it. Snow, pine and maple trees up north, and cacti and hot temps. in the Valleys. Will close for now. Keep believing in God.

Michael

 

[Kdall]

Dear Kdall,

The clock I speak of is none of what you offered, but is instead, a priceless timepiece of God and Jesus. It doesn't depend on the speed of light, radiometric dating, etc. It is instead a brilliant, wise, unfathomable instance of True Excellent Genius that is almost impossible to understand. I don't buy the 99.7% of anyone. You have to watch where you are getting your information from. If science says 99.7%, it does not make it true.



I can't say that I have all of the answers. But I am comfortable with most that I have, so that's a good, comforting thing for me. I am not close-minded. Why didn't Jesus dispute the story of the Creation while He was on Earth?? Or the whole Old Testament? He read from the book of Isaiah, for instance. God was with Him.



This is all only according to the science that you have read. You will also note the Meteor Crater. And what is the Grand Canyon all about? You see, I live in Phoenix, AZ. It's nice here. Whatever temp. you like, you can move to different elevations here to get it. Snow, pine and maple trees up north, and cacti and hot temps. in the Valleys.

Michael I can explain to you in detail about Arizona's sandstone canyons/valleys have unique erosion patterns[hint: the multiple elevations play a role], the crater, how cacti are highly specialized desert life, exactly the altitude where those pines will start and stop growing, etc. But you don't trust it and therefore don't consider it to be even possibly true. There's no point.

Merriam-Webster defines "closed-minded" as:

obstinately resistant to argument or to unfamiliar or unwelcome ideas

It is instead a brilliant, wise, unfathomable instance of True Excellent Genius that is almost impossible to understand. I don't buy the 99.7% of anyone. You have to watch where you are getting your information from. If science says 99.7%, it does not make it true.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Michael I can explain to you in detail about Arizona's sandstone canyons/valleys have unique erosion patterns[hint: the multiple elevations play a role], the crater, how cacti are highly specialized desert life, exactly the altitude where those pines will start and stop growing, etc. But you don't trust it and therefore don't consider it to be even possibly true. There's no point.

Merriam-Webster defines "closed-minded" as:

obstinately resistant to argument or to unfamiliar or unwelcome ideas

Dear Kdall,

If that's the stuff you want to tell me, fine. It is easily looked up in Wikipedia. As far as what God will do 2morrow, it will take more to sway me. Are you sure you are not closed-minded. We will test you. Do you know that I had 3 angels visit me in the space of 3 weeks almost 40 years ago this month? Did you know the first one said to me, "Fear God, and give Him glory, for the 'hour' of His judgment is come upon all of the earth, and worship Him Who made the heaven and the earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." That's what I'll leave you with. Do you believe me?? Of course, you will say Yes because you're trying to prove a point, but do you REALLY believe my words? That is good because you have no idea what time is upon you.

God's Best For You, Kdall,

Michael

 

[Kdall]

Dear Kdall,

If that's the stuff you want to tell me, fine. It is easily looked up in Wikipedia. As far as what God will do 2morrow, it will take more to sway me. Are you sure you are not closed-minded. We will test you. Do you know that I had 3 angels visit me in the space of 3 weeks almost 40 years ago this month? Did you know the first one said to me, "Fear God, and give Him glory, for the 'hour' of His judgment is come upon all of the earth, and worship Him Who made the heaven and the earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." That's what I'll leave you with. Do you believe me?? Of course, you will say Yes because you're trying to prove a point, but do you REALLY believe my words? That is good because you have no idea what time is upon you.

God's Best For You, Kdall,

Michael

Michael I would actually be very skeptical of anyone making such claims. I don't want to offend you so I won't elaborate, but anyone who takes somebody's claim of having been visited by angels at face value is unwise. There is no proof that can be given for or against your statements, so "I don't know" is the best answer I can give based on evidence

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear Kdall,

Well then, I must say that there is no proof that can be given for or against your beliefs either. It is just science making a claim that is refutable with the passing of time. With the passing of time, mine is provable, for it rests upon the 2nd coming of Christ. If that happens soon, then you will know that I was visited by the angels and that the rest of my book, which is in the downtown Phoenix Library, is true also. I knew we'd reach an agreement. You don't know any thing that's happened to me in my life. Of course you cannot be sure if I'm telling you the truth. But like God said, here is how you can prove a prophet is real: if what he says come true with the passing of time, then he is a True Prophet, and if not, then he is not. It's that simple. Give it all some time Kdall. You've only been told one of quite a number of things that have happened to me. I am going to get something to eat, and I will first tell you how you can read about the experiences I've had for yourself. You can read my book, which is only 88 pages long and is double-spaced. And it's FREE. Barnes&Noble and Amazon.com each want over $15 a copy. I have 3 editions of my book in the Library. They are also in the Library of Congress. President Obama has a copy. So does Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. To go to my website, go to jesusreturningverysoon.com
Once there, left-click on 'Book Copy', then click on 'SKU-text2.pdf. The first two pages that come up are blank, for autographing or notes. The third page in the Title Page of my book: "What Your Eyes Have Not Seen" by Michael W. Cadry. You can scroll through the pages using your up and down arrow cursor keys. You can also download it to your computer printer to make your own copy. It's a real good read, I've been told. Thanks for being square with me. I am not put off by ANYTHING you've said to me, and I think you are a good person!!

God Be With You In The Future!!

Michael

 

[6days]

Man is not God, and God did not write the Bible.

All scripture *is 'God breathed' inspired.*

Men did, and then made thousands of copies and translations of the original documents, of which we have*none*today.

We have thousands of ancient manuscripts including early papyrus ones to compare confirming accuracy. (Test methods bibliographical, internal and external test methods)

We can't know what the first and only true books of the Bible said.*

As Christians we can have confidence that our Bibles contain the accurate and true and complete Word of God*

I'm sure you know that Roman Emperor Constantine is responsible for picking all books included in today's Protestant canon?

Funny you think others would "know" the same false things you believe true... but aren't. Constantine did not pick which Books are in the Bible. *2Peter 3:16 shows early Christians recognized the writings of Paul as scripture. *Other early authors show early Christians acknowledging other Books as scripture. The council of Carthage perhaps helped gather together into one Book, the 27 separate Books Christians already knew were inspired. ( The 39 Books of the OT are confirmed by Christ and other Bible authors)

There are over 100 gospels. 4 were included.

4 Gospels were inspired scripture. Kdall could write a book and call it a gospel. There would be good reasons why your 'gospel' and all others are not included in our Bibles.

 

[Kdall]

All scripture *is 'God breathed' inspired.*



We have thousands of ancient manuscripts including early papyrus ones to compare confirming accuracy. (Test methods bibliographical, internal and external test methods)



As Christians we can have confidence that our Bibles contain the accurate and true and complete Word of God*


Funny you think others would "know" the same false things you believe true... but aren't. Constantine did not pick which Books are in the Bible. *2Peter 3:16 shows early Christians recognized the writings of Paul as scripture. *Other early authors show early Christians acknowledging other Books as scripture. The council of Carthage perhaps helped gather together into one Book, the 27 separate Books Christians already knew were inspired. ( The 39 Books of the OT are confirmed by Christ and other Bible authors)



4 Gospels were inspired scripture. Kdall could write a book and call it a gospel. There would be good reasons why your 'gospel' and all others are not included in our Bibles.

The Q source is among Biblical scholars agreed to be, along with Mark, directly copied into Matthew and Luke. Only some of the latter two is original, and that proves at least two authors for both Matthew and Luke. That brings their validity into question. Especially when you consider that the Gospel of Thomas is very different. It has been found complete in original Greek and also Coptic, proving it's at least as old as the canonical gospels. It was excluded at Nicaea for being considered too Gnostic in nature. While it is only sayings attributed to Jesus and contains no events, it's widely considered more accurate than Matthew, Luke, and John.

 

[6days]

The Q source is among Biblical scholars agreed to be, along with Mark, directly copied into Matthew and Luke. Only some of the latter two is original, and that proves at least two authors for both Matthew and Luke. That brings their validity into question. Especially when you consider that the Gospel of Thomas is very different. It has been found complete in original Greek and also Coptic, proving it's at least as old as the canonical gospels. It was excluded at Nicaea for being considered too Gnostic in nature. While it is only sayings attributed to Jesus and contains no events, it's widely considered more accurate than Matthew, Luke, and John.

Sure..... according to atheistic sources like rationalwiki. But your comments simply aren't factual... and its also an attempt to move the goalposts. *'Gospel' of Thomas is no more scripture than your comments. Perhaps start yet another thread on the topic...and with an open mind you will learn and understand why Muslims like gospel of Thomas... but it isn't 'God breathed' scripture.

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear 6days,

Wonderful job! Thanks!! Kdall reminds me of noguru. The Christian without the right beliefs. Evolution is given more credence than the Creation story written in the Bible. But we can't believe the Creation story because everything in the Bible has been tainted by Constantine. Heeehehehehee!

God Is With You,

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

I wanted to include this response on this thread, because it might be helpful.


Of course, God's angels and servants do a lot of the work. They have the spirit of God within them, so it is just as if God did it Himself. Of course, dude! God gives the commands and they do not come back to Him undone. God knew me while I was still in the womb of my mother, and even before that, to be honest. No ego here. It's just how it is. God knew 6days and you while you were still in your mother's womb also. Of course He does it through angels and they report to Him. We, on Earth, are being prepped to become servants to God in Heaven. We will help do the work in Heaven. For this reason, it is written, "Blessed are they which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works (in Heaven) do follow them." {see Rev. 14:13KJV}. God takes His own off of the Earth to spare them the things that must come.

God Bless Your Heart,

Michael