Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!
- Thread starter Apple7
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genuineoriginal
New member
According to the context, he is not being worshiped as God in any of those verses.
God's Truth
New member
Only God is to be worshiped.
Jesus is exalted to the highest place, he is sitting on the throne and is far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age, but also in that which is to come. Everything is under His feet and he is head over everything.
...but you don't think he should be worshiped?
genuineoriginal
New member
Yes.
God put everything under Jesus' feet, with the exception of God Himself.
1 Corinthians 15:27 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. |
Jesus never said we are to worship Him as God, but He did say that the Father was to be worshiped.
John 4:23 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. |
God's Truth
New member
Hello GO,
Right; God did not put Jesus above Himself, but He put Jesus on His throne with Him.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I don't agree. Everyone knew Jesus was claiming to be God. It's only people today who can't see that.
John 10:30-33, John 5:18
Apple7
New member
The lexicons make this declaration.
I don't require help.
However, you do...
There is no Salvation apart from the worship of the Triune Creator.
Even the OT prophets understood this important fact.
I know that you do not understand the Scriptures. I do not know how you can help me with that.
Apple7
New member
First off, you can stop quoting a Trinitarian English rendering when you don't believe in it to begin with.
That is commonly called hypocrisy...
Today is Revi'i, Fourth, Aviv 12, Evening and Morning, Night and Day. (already)
I actually do not know what you are talking about.
Apple7
New member
But you are not in flesh, but in (en) Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells (oikei) in you. But if anyone has (echei) not the Spirit of Christ, this one is not His. But if Christ is in (en) you, the body indeed is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of the One having raised Jesus from the dead dwells (oikei) in you, the One having raised the Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies live through the indwelling (enoikountos) of His Spirit in you. (Romans 8.9 – 11)
Locations of ‘oikei’:
• Romans 7.18
• Romans 8.9, 11 (Spirit of God dwells)
• 1 Cor 3.16 (Spirit of God dwelling)
Locations of ‘enoikountos’:
• Romans 8.11
• 2 Tim 1.14 (Holy Spirit dwells)
Romans 8.9 – 11 informs the reader that The Holy Spirit (Spirit of God) is separate from the Spirit of Christ by employing entirely different verbs in their description.
The Holy Spirit uses the verbs, ‘oikei’ & enoikountos’, meaning that a ‘cohabitation’ event is occurring. This is a literal Person-to-person event. The Holy Spirit resides within a person.
Contrasted to this is the Spirit of Christ, which is promoted via the preposition ‘en’ (in), and the verb ‘echei’, to have or hold.
Jesus is a created being fathered by God through Mary.
If He was not a righteous faultless man of the human race then His death did not atone for sin.
Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
LA
If He was not a righteous faultless man of the human race then His death did not atone for sin.
Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
LA
God's Truth
New member
We are only given one Spirit when we are saved; we are given the Holy Spirit.
So that is more proof that Jesus' Spirit is the Spirit of God come as a man's.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?
Galatians 4:6 Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."
Ephesians 3:17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love,
God's Truth
New member
When we are saved, we receive the Holy Spirit, see Acts 5:32.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God,
See 2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
The Saved become the temple of God. When we are saved we are given the Spirit of God. Since we are given the Spirit of Jesus, Jesus is God.
The scriptures tell us that when we are saved Jesus lives inside us, see 2 Corinthians 13:5.
How do you think that we have three in us if they are not all the same?
There is only one Spirit, see Ephesians 4:4.
Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God, Jesus is God and is the Holy Spirit.
The Father will live inside you.
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. John 14:23
For we are the temple of the living God. 2 Corinthians 6:16
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. Romans 8:9
Ephesians 2:22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?
Jesus will live inside you.
John 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. John 14:23
so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. Ephesians 3:17
Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9
Romans 8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?
The Holy Spirit lives in you.
1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?
John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
John 1:33
I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
2 Timothy 1:14
Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.
The Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit lives in us. They are one and the same. We do not have three different Spirits living in us, for the scriptures say there is one Spirit.
Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called--
Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God,
See 2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."
The Saved become the temple of God. When we are saved we are given the Spirit of God. Since we are given the Spirit of Jesus, Jesus is God.
The scriptures tell us that when we are saved Jesus lives inside us, see 2 Corinthians 13:5.
How do you think that we have three in us if they are not all the same?
There is only one Spirit, see Ephesians 4:4.
Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God, Jesus is God and is the Holy Spirit.
The Father will live inside you.
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. John 14:23
For we are the temple of the living God. 2 Corinthians 6:16
You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. Romans 8:9
Ephesians 2:22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
1 Corinthians 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?
Jesus will live inside you.
John 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."
Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. John 14:23
so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. Ephesians 3:17
Revelation 3:20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. Romans 8:9
Romans 8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?
The Holy Spirit lives in you.
1 Corinthians 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?
John 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.
Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."
John 1:33
I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
2 Timothy 1:14
Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.
The Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit lives in us. They are one and the same. We do not have three different Spirits living in us, for the scriptures say there is one Spirit.
Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called--
Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
Apple7
New member
Apple7
New member
You want to ignore scripture and deny The Holy Trinity, by making The Son the Holy Spirit.
This does not work, as already detailed to you...
God's Truth
New member
There is only one Spirit that is given to the saved.
Do you have the Spirit?
Which one?
Changing the definition of "worship" to fit your doctrine only makes you deceitful.
Here is the definition of worship:
Worshipping anyone or anything but God is called IDOLATRY. Showing honor or respect for people in positions of authority is not worship.
Paul calls Jesus God. (Titus 2:13)
Jesus existed in the form of God. (Philippians 2:5-8)
God the Father says to the Son, "Your throne, God, will last forever." (Hebrews 1:8)
John calls Jesus (the Word) God (John 1:1)
----
IF:
Jesus is not God
THEN:
Jesus is not worthy of worship.
The word "worship" comes from the root words "weorthscipe" (Old English) and "worth-ship" (English).
"Weorthscipe" means "worthiness, acknowledgment of worth."
No godly man or being ever accepted worship from men even when they were mistaken. For example Paul and Barnabas were worshipped, and they rejected it. (Acts 14:8-18)
----
IF:
Jesus was just "a god," and not YHWH, like the JW's claim
THEN:
Jesus is not worthy of worship.
There shall be no foreign god among you; Nor shall you worship any foreign god. - Psalm 81:9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm81:9&version=NKJV
(for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), - Exodus 34:14 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus34:14&version=NKJV
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.“You shall have no other gods before Me.“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. - Exodus 20:2-6 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus20:2-6&version=NKJV
And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus said to him, [JESUS]“Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”[/JESUS] - Matthew 4:9-10 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew4:9-10&version=NKJV
IF:
No one but God is to be worshipped
AND IF:
Godly men (ie created beings) rejected worship
THEN:
Why did Jesus, who according to the JWs is NOT God, but just a created being, and a godly man, ACCEPT WORSHIP?!
AND:
Why was Jesus' message so focused on Himself, when [No one but God is to be worshipped] and [godly men (created beings) rejected worship and attention, instead diverting it to God]?
Spoiler
BECAUSE:
JESUS IS YHWH, AND IS THEREFORE WORTHY OF WORSHIP.
Are you speaking out of both sides of your mouth now, speaking doublespeak?
First you say you worship created beings, then you say you only worship YHWH?
Make up your mind.
We worship the ONE GOD, who is the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.
One God, Three Persons.
Basing a doctrine on ONE SINGLE VERSE is an extremely BAD IDEA.