popsthebuilder
New member
If it is for all to die then it ties to the subject of our individual eternal natures that you are promoting.
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Christians worship Christ; JW's do not!
- Thread starter Apple7
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This is why I don't like Paul's word.
It does not harmonize with Jesus' word.
Jesus repeats importance of producing fruit over and over.
I take Jesus' word over Paul's.
Jesus is the Lord, not Paul.
popsthebuilder
New member
So are you denying that King David was anointed by GOD?
Oh wait; you're denying that the word first in firstborn has anything to do with being first or born?
I'm confused.....so you are really trying to tell me that firstborn in reference to Jesus doesn't mean first or begotten/ formed /created? Jesus was formed in blessed Mary's womb. The Spirit isn't beggotten though, or created, but could still be referenced as firstfriuts.
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Something we've already established... Please keep up.
No it's not, because I haven't asked it before.
Meshak, here's a better way to ask it:
If believers will exist for all eternity, then how can something intended to last for eternity (those who do not believe who had the potential to believe) be destroyed?
Chill, Meshak. This is the most progress we've made in discussion since, well, ever. Why put an end to it so soon?
Who gave Paul the his gospel?
Paul says Jesus did. But I doubt it. He has so many things to say not harmonizing with Jesus' word.
End of discussion. take it or leave it.
popsthebuilder
New member
Oh.....because GOD is eternal only.
I aught to catch a lot of flak for this one.
I am not denying that we are raised up/ gathered together upon or prior to judgement.
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popsthebuilder
New member
Here is my point, Meshak.
How can something that is designed to last for all of eternity be destroyed, even by God?
glorydaz
Well-known member
I see what you cannot. God is Triune.
Father, the Word (Son) and Holy Spirit.
JUST ONE GOD with a Triune nature.
The persons of the Godhead are absolutely and totally coequal.
Jesus Christ is God the Word (being in the form of God).....equal with God.
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
He hid His glory by taking on the form of a servant (man).
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
When did they behold His glory?
Matt. 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. Luke 9:32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him. |
When God the Word became flesh as the Son, He took on the form of a servant.
Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
That servant was a human being in which the entire Godhead dwelt.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
He didn't cease being God Almighty when He took on humanity.
If you actually believed what is so clearly written, the light would shine and you would see.
popsthebuilder
New member
Wow there.... first GOD is omnipotent and omniscient i.e., can do anything.
Second; you presume GOD made a mistake my saying HE designed is to be imortal but we have both birth and death.
That is a dangerous point you are getting at. I hope you hit the mark.
What are you really getting at?
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popsthebuilder
New member
Yet you leave out the Spirit wholly.
See a problem yet?
I hope someone does.
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Isn't the Word of God truth?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Of course it is. And you've been given scripture to prove it.
Shalom.
Today is Rishon, Aviv 16, evening and morning, night and day.
I don't know that this is a path.
Shalom.
Jacob
glorydaz
Well-known member
Let me quote from myself.
Is there some reason you want to focus on the Spirit? We can do that.
But, at present, I am trying to open your eyes to the Word, who was with God, was God, and became flesh to dwell among us as Jesus Christ the Son of God.
The Word (God) became flesh by being conceived in Mary by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit didn't become flesh, but He did infuse Mary's ovum with Life. That LIFE was both Divine and Human. God and Man. God with us. Emmanuel.
popsthebuilder
New member
The God man you reference had a start that you just expounded upon.
The Spirit Doesn't.
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God's Truth
New member
Man IS his spirit.
Can God push something that is unpushable? NO.
Can God make a rock so big that he cannot lift it? NO.
Can God know something that is unknowable (such as the number of hairs on a fictional character's head)? NO, NO, AND NO!
Just because God is omnipotent and omniscient doesn't mean that He can do or know everything. It means that he can do or know everything that is possible to do or know.
Um, what? I never said it was a mistake. Where did you get that idea?
And yes, we are conceived, are born, grow up, and die, but if a man has a relationship with God, he is instantly transported to be with Him. If he does not, then he is instantly transported to hell, were he awaits judgement.
MY POSITION IS THIS:
That God created man to live life in two stages, the first stage being here on this earth, and the second in heaven with God. God designed man to live for eternity, even if it's apart from Him. God took a risk in doing so, but God is a God of risk.
Something that is designed to last for eternity would take more than an infinite amount of energy to wear it down, let alone destroy it.
THEREFORE, Man cannot be destroyed, because God placed eternity in his heart. Saying such goes against what the Bible says.
Only dangerous to your beliefs, but perfectly in line with what Scripture says.
Hit the mark? Jesus hit the mark for me. I don't have to do anything other than preach the message of the Bible.
My point is this:
YOUR POSITION, that man dies, is unconscious, and then (if he is an unbeliever) after the Great White Throne Judgement is destroyed, IS UNBIBLICAL.
Death is separation. That's it. That's all it is.
When someone dies, they are separated from their body, they are separated from loved ones, and they are separated from this world. To use an analogy:
Our bodies are anchors that keep our spirits here in this world. A believer's body only anchors him to the ground, preventing him from soaring off into heaven. When he dies, his spirit is detached from that anchor, and he is immediately transported to heaven, to be with God for the rest of eternity. However, an unbeliever's body anchors him to this world, preventing him from being dragged down into hell. When he dies, his spirit breaks away from his body, and is instantly transported into hell, where he awaits final judgement.
Believers die once, but have eternal life to look forward to.
Unbelievers die twice, once in this world, and once at the GWT judgement, where they are separated from God, because death is separation.
Physical death is separation of body and spirit/soul, spiritual death is separation of spirit/soul and God.
It's not unconsciousness, it's not annihilation. It's merely separation.
When an unbeliever dies, he does not cease to exist. Rather, he will exist for all of eternity, separated from God. This is what true torment is, being separated from one's Creator because they rejected Him.
They exist for the rest of eternity because God CANNOT destroy them. Not even God can destroy something that He designed to withstand infinite eternity.