Catholicism: The Mother of All Religions

[Robert Pate]

I would say that the Catholic Church is the mother church.
They would have to. Since the Catholic Church is the global organization that the Apostle Paul farmed and spread toward Rome, the center of the Roman Empire.
Like's there no mention of the ten Apostles, even though there were at least ten of them; Twelve even.
Show where there's a distinction between the believers in Rome---or for any other city---and the church in Rome. You can't.
Also there's no mention of other churches we know existed anyway. Nowhere does Revelation purport to be chronicling all known churches.
True, unless you're willing to believe what the Church has believed from the earliest, that Peter's mention of writing from Babylon is a code for Rome, that, again, the whole Church believed from the earliest.
Not unless the Church says so. Yours is just an opinion with no weight behind it. The Church actually has an official teaching office, the college of bishops in communion with the pope and the pope himself (always a man and never a lady). What they say actually has weight behind it, because of the history of the organization and because the Scripture teaches that the Church should be overseen by bishops. These men (all men, never a lady among them) are them.
John was writing to test those who weren't Apostles to see if they taught as the Apostles taught. You should obey this scripture and test the spirits to see if they align with what the bishops teach in the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
The Church teaches all this. The Church further teaches that the true, accurate, historical expression of the One Christian faith is Holy Catholicism.
All I can say is that the Catholic Church is the Christian family, the official family of Christians. There are those like you who are only Catholic in heart but not bodily, and those like you the Church still embraces as fully Christian, as are those who are both in heart and bodily, Catholic. (The Church does not teach that those who are only Catholic bodily, but not in heart, are Christians.)

I am not Catholic in heart, mind, body or Spirit.

Where there is no Gospel there is no Spirit. The "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ is the heart and the center of the Christian faith. To believe the Gospel is to believe that we have been justified by faith alone. We are justified by faith alone because we are justified by Christ alone, Romans 3:26.

This is where we part company. It is by faith alone so that it can be by Christ alone. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, even sinners that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Eating wafers and drinking grape juice is not going to make you like Christ, this is why salvation is totally and completely outside of ourselves.

 

[Nihilo]

I am not Catholic in heart, mind, body or Spirit.

Yes you are. See below.

Where there is no Gospel there is no Spirit. The "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ is the heart and the center of the Christian faith. To believe the Gospel is to believe that we have been justified by faith alone. We are justified by faith alone because we are justified by Christ alone, Romans 3:26.

This is where we part company. It is by faith alone so that it can be by Christ alone. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, even sinners that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Eating wafers and drinking grape juice is not going to make you like Christ, this is why salvation is totally and completely outside of ourselves.

The Holy Catholic Church teaches and believes everything you just said, Robert. John 3:16 (KJV)

 

[beloved57]

I am not Catholic in heart, mind, body or Spirit.

Where there is no Gospel there is no Spirit. The "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ is the heart and the center of the Christian faith. To believe the Gospel is to believe that we have been justified by faith alone. We are justified by faith alone because we are justified by Christ alone, Romans 3:26.

This is where we part company. It is by faith alone so that it can be by Christ alone. God does not accept the works or the obedience of sinners, even sinners that are indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Eating wafers and drinking grape juice is not going to make you like Christ, this is why salvation is totally and completely outside of ourselves.

Both of you teach salvation by works, by what a man does! Pateism is derived from the Roman Catholic church!

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes you are. See below.
The Holy Catholic Church teaches and believes everything you just said, Robert. John 3:16 (KJV)

I am afraid not.

Council of Trent. Cannon #9.

"If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not any any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed of by his own will, let him be anathema."

 

[Nihilo]

I am afraid not.

Council of Trent. Cannon #9.

"If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not any any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed of by his own will, let him be anathema."

The Church teaches:

" Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. " 1st Peter 1:18-23 (KJV)

Does this sound like justified by faith alone, according to your understanding?

 

[Robert Pate]

The Church teaches:

" Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. " 1st Peter 1:18-23 (KJV)

Does this sound like justified by faith alone, according to your understanding?

Catholicism is very deceptive. They try to sound like Christians, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty they don't really have faith in Christ and his Gospel. What they have faith in is their works and the Catholic church.

"If anyone says that the commandments of God are, even are for one that is justified and constituted in grace IMPOSSIBLE TO OBSERVE, let him be anathema." Council of Trent. Cannon #18.

The apostle John said, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.

We are all sinners and are continuosly breaking God's law.

 

[Nihilo]

Catholicism is very deceptive.

Coming from you, this is of course very high praise.

They try to sound like Christians, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty they don't really have faith in Christ and his Gospel.

Here Robert accuses 1000 million Catholics of not being Christians.

What they have faith in is their works and the Catholic church.

No to the first, but yes to the second, but in this way: Catholics believe in the Catholic Church because they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and that Holy Catholicism is the true expression, of the One historic Christian faith (Ephesians 4:5 KJV), so believing in the Church for a Catholic, is an extension of that Catholic, believing in the Lord Himself (John 3:16 KJV).

"If anyone says that the commandments of God are, even are for one that is justified and constituted in grace IMPOSSIBLE TO OBSERVE, let him be anathema." Council of Trent. Cannon #18.

The apostle John said, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.

We are all sinners and are continuosly breaking God's law.

There's not even the appearance of any discrepancy between any of this, though there is the appearance of double negation in the first paragraph.

 

[Robert Pate]

Coming from you, this is of course very high praise.
Here Robert accuses 1000 million Catholics of not being Christians.
No to the first, but yes to the second, but in this way: Catholics believe in the Catholic Church because they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and that Holy Catholicism is the true expression, of the One historic Christian faith (Ephesians 4:5 KJV), so believing in the Church for a Catholic, is an extension of that Catholic, believing in the Lord Himself (John 3:16 KJV).
There's not even the appearance of any discrepancy between any of this, though there is the appearance of double negation in the first paragraph.

Why do all Catholic churches have a life size image of the crucified Christ hanging on the wall? Jesus is not on the cross. Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of God as our intercessor and our mediator. Having victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36. Why not have Jesus sitting on a throne as the "King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16. Why does the pope sit on a throne and Jesus hangs on the wall?

Here is the answer. The Catholic church is anti-Christ. They do not believe the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. They are trying to do in their flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ. They are trying to rehabilitate Adam's old fallen nature by the works of the law. The Bible clearly teaches that man's old fallen nature was put to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:6 and that God has brought forth a new man and a new humanity in the resurrection of Jesus, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

 

[Nihilo]

Why do all Catholic churches have a life size image of the crucified Christ hanging on the wall?

1st Corinthians 1:23 (KJV) Take it up with Paul.

Jesus is not on the cross. Jesus is in heaven at the right hand of God as our intercessor and our mediator. Having victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil, God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ, Acts 2:36.

Our bishops teach this.

Why not have Jesus sitting on a throne as the "King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

The Church teaches this, and again, 1st Corinthians 1:23 (KJV) says "preach Christ crucified."

Why does the pope sit on a throne

So that everybody easily knows who he is.

and Jesus hangs on the wall?

1st Corinthians 1:23 (KJV)

Here is the answer. The Catholic church is anti-Christ.

Or, the Catholic Church is actually guided by Scripture (e.g. 1Co1:23KJV), and your opinions are not. So nobody should believe you. Because you're so transparently dishonest and duplicitous, to trumpet the Scripture, and to teach against it. Fork tongued.

They do not believe the Gospel that justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19.

The Church's magisterium does so believe and teach this and I can prove it. Anybody can prove it, using the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Every infallible teaching is contained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. These are the teachings on matters of faith, doctrine and morals, that the entire college of bishops in communion with the pope and every pope himself teaches authoritatively concerning the true expression, of the One historic Christian faith (Ephesians 4:5 KJV).

They are trying to do in their flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ. They are trying to rehabilitate Adam's old fallen nature by the works of the law.

Catholic clergy celebrate the Mass, the most important part of which is the Eucharist, which again is another example of the Church being led and guided by Scripture, which continually emphasizes the importance of the Lord's Supper as the pinnacle of Church worship.

The Bible clearly teaches that man's old fallen nature was put to death in Jesus Christ, Romans 6:6 and that God has brought forth a new man and a new humanity in the resurrection of Jesus, 2 Corinthians 5:17.

The popes also teach this clearly.

 

[Robert Pate]

1st Corinthians 1:23 (KJV) Take it up with Paul.
Our bishops teach this.
The Church teaches this, and again, 1st Corinthians 1:23 (KJV) says "preach Christ crucified."
So that everybody easily knows who he is.
1st Corinthians 1:23 (KJV)
Or, the Catholic Church is actually guided by Scripture (e.g. 1Co1:23KJV), and your opinions are not. So nobody should believe you. Because you're so transparently dishonest and duplicitous, to trumpet the Scripture, and to teach against it. Fork tongued.
The Church's magisterium does so believe and teach this and I can prove it. Anybody can prove it, using the Catechism of the Catholic Church. Every infallible teaching is contained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. These are the teachings on matters of faith, doctrine and morals, that the entire college of bishops in communion with the pope and every pope himself teaches authoritatively concerning the true expression, of the One historic Christian faith (Ephesians 4:5 KJV).
Catholic clergy celebrate the Mass, the most important part of which is the Eucharist, which again is another example of the Church being led and guided by Scripture, which continually emphasizes the importance of the Lord's Supper as the pinnacle of Church worship.
The popes also teach this clearly.

HOGWASH!

Show me a document where the popes teach that?

Catholicism is a religion of works because they believe that works justify.

Paul wrote, "But to him that does NO works, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith (not his works) are counted for righteousness" Romans 4:5.

What does the Council of Trent say? "If anyone says that Christ Jesus was given by God to men as a redeemer in whom to trust and not also as a legislator whom to obey, let him be anathema."

No one can obey Jesus, simply because it is impossible to do or keep the law.

 

[Nihilo]

What does the Council of Trent say?

"If anyone says that the commandments of God are, even are for one that is justified and constituted in grace IMPOSSIBLE TO OBSERVE, let him be anathema." Council of Trent. Cannon #18.

No one can obey Jesus, simply because it is impossible to do or keep the law.

See?

 

[Ktoyou]

The catholic church is a relic of the middle ages. It is the old first estate. In France where it is still the official church not more than half of people today believe it is anymore than an institution. Only about half believe in God, yet they like the Catholic church.a

 

[beloved57]

pate

Catholicism is a religion of works because they believe that works justify.

You believe the same thing. That man must exercise his freewill to get saved !

 

[Robert Pate]

The catholic church is a relic of the middle ages. It is the old first estate. In France where it is still the official church not more than half of people today believe it is anymore than an institution. Only about half believe in God, yet they like the Catholic church.a

Yet, there are millions and millions of Catholics that are lost.