Can the Christians here accept the Biblical fact that God is one?
- Thread starter Elia
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We don't have three gods. We have one God.
I know that 1+1+1=3. But God is not 1+1+1::nono:.
And you still haven't answered my questions: n=?
Come on, you can do it...
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
So there we have it: The trinity, or the tri-unity, or the "combined unity", it is nowhere to be found in the Bible.
And what does the Bible tell us?
Yes, the Bible tells us that God is ONE!
"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4
"Listen, Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is One" Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." English Standard Version
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" New American Standard Bible
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." New International Version
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!" New King James Version"
"And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, "Which commandment is the first of all?" Jesus answered, "The first is, `Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, THE LORD IS ONE; and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.' The second is this, `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that HE IS ONE, and there is no other but he; and to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God."" Mark 12:28-34 Revised Standard Version
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." "You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version
"Here is the most important one. Moses said, 'Israel, listen to me. The Lord is our God. The Lord is one." "You are right in saying that God is one." New International Readers Version
"Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One." "You have correctly said that He is One," Holman Christian Standard Bible
"Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one:" "thou hast well said that he is one;" American Standard Version
"Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one." New King James Version
"Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one" "You have truly said that he is one," English Standard Version
"Jesus said, "The first in importance is, 'Listen, Israel: The Lord your God is one;" ""A wonderful answer, Teacher! So lucid and accurate—that God is one" The Message
"‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." "“You are right in saying that God is one" New International Version
"Now an intermediary implies more than one; but GOD IS ONE." Gal 3:20 Revised Standard Version
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but GOD IS ONE" King James Version
"A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but GOD IS ONE." New International Version
"Now an intermediary implies more than one, but GOD IS ONE." English Standard Version
"Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but GOD IS ONE." American Standard Version
"and the mediator is not of one, and GOD IS ONE" Youngs Literal Translation
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." James 2:19 Revised Standard Version
"thou -- thou dost believe that GOD IS ONE; thou dost well," Youngs Literal translation
"Thou believest that GOD IS ONE; thou doest well:" American Standard Version
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Holman Christian Standard Bible.
"*Thou* believest that GOD IS ONE. Thou doest well." Darby Translation.
"It’s good that you believe that GOD IS ONE." Common English Bible
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." English Standard Version
"You believe that GOD IS ONE; you do well." Amplified Bible
"You believe that GOD IS ONE You do well;" New American Standard Bible
So now the question arises: Why shove aside the Biblical fact that God is one, and try to replace it with "God is three", a concept that is NOWHERE to be found in the Bible?
Eliyahu light unto the nations
"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4
"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5
This message is sent to you from Mount Zion, Jerusalem, Israel.
"From Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Y-H-W-H from Jerusalem." Isaiah 2:3, Micah 4:2
In Isaiah 63:
How does Y-H-W-H have on 'garments' and 'apparel'?
What is His 'Holy arm'?
Who or what is the 'Angel of His presence/face'?
When is the 'day of vengeance'?
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
He does not, that is a metaphor.
Another metaphor.
Where do you see that?
That probably has passed already.
Eliyahu
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
The chief god Zeus had a son, also divine, Apollo.
So the son Apollo, and the father Zeus, how many gods were that?
Was that 1 x 1 = 1 god? Or were it maybe 1 + 1 = 2 gods?
Eliyahu
Isaiah 63:9 In all their affliction He was afflicted, And the angel of His presence saved them; In His love and in His mercy He redeemed them, And He lifted them and carried them all the days of old.
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
The word translated with "angel" means "messenger".
It was a messenger of God.
Eliyahu
Right. I'm looking for the Torah passage. Here it is. Two references in the cross reference of my Bible.
Exodus 23:20 "Behold, I am going to send an angel before you to guard you along the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared.
Exodus 23:21 "Be on your guard before him and obey his voice; do not be rebellious toward him, for he will not pardon your transgression, since My name is in him.
Exodus 23:22 "But if you truly obey his voice and do all that I say, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.
Exodus 23:23 "For My angel will go before you and bring you in to the land of the Amorites, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Canaanites, the Hivites and the Jebusites; and I will completely destroy them.
Exodus 33:14 And He said, "My presence shall go with you, and I will give you rest."
Exodus 33:15 Then he said to Him, "If Your presence does not go with us, do not lead us up from here.
I don't quibble over differences in terms due to language translation ... to me the English name of LORD is the English equivalent to the
ancient name of the Most High God / Y-H-W-H.
Therefore,I agree with everything above ... except that the LORD Jesus Christ is not Y-H-W-H.
In Isaiah 43:11 GOD/Y-H-W-H clearly says that HE is the the savior ... and LORD Jesus was the promised ONE (Emmanuel) who came appearing as flesh for the first time as the savior of mankind.
John 1:18 KJV makes it clear that it was the first time ever any human being had ever seen Y-H-W-H appearing in the fleshly form of a mortal man as the off-spring of the invisible God.
No man at any time has seen God, the begotten son ...but he (John the B) has declared him.
But people had seen Y-H-W-H in OT times, but at that time HE was appearing among men as a super-natural heavenly body not mortal flesh.
In fact, Y-H-W-H appeared to 74 men at one time.
Exodus 24:9-12 KJV
And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire ...the body of heaven in HIS clearness...
... they saw God and did eat and drink
And the LORD (Y-H-W-H) said unto Moses, "Come up to me into the mount..."
LORD/Y-H-W-H Jesus in flesh is The Father LORD/Y-H-W-H who appeared first.
He even told us that he and the Father are ONE!!!
You call Jesus a liar if you don't believe what he said.
Zeus and Apollo = 0 gods.
YahuShuan
New member
Well Elia, I don't believe I ever have. I don't put Him in a little tiny box of men's interpretations either. Not yours, and not the christians either. I would not dare limit Him to not being able to create a sinless being and inhabit it as He so wished. I know He can and will do whatever HE chooses to do. If He wanted to visit Abraham and be in a human form, so be it. If He wanted to show us how HE as The Father desired to be loved and how to walk in the Torah HE gave, then so be it. We sure couldn't do it ourselves, any of us, without being SHOWN HOW.
So far I have watched you falsely tackle verses such as this one: Pro 30:4 Who has gone up to the heavens and come down? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name, And what is His Son’s Name, If you know it?
Leaving out the obvious, so I ask, what is HIS SON'S NAME if you know it?Then I would ask, in this verse:
Jer 8:8, 9 “How do you say, ‘We are wise, and the Torah of יהוה is with us’? But look, the false pen of the scribe has worked falsehood. The wise shall be put to shame, they shall be broken down and caught. See, they have rejected the Word of יהוה, so what wisdom do they have?
My question is...What did those "false pens" do way back then to polute what Yah had them put to script??? Show me where you people did the right thing and made the way straight again. If you can not, then what wisdom do YOU have that another would not?
Elia
Well-known member
Bs’d
If anybody says JC is the same as Y-H-W-H then you are stuck with the fact that God is his own son and at the same time his own father.
Then you are stuck with the fact that when JC prays to his father, God is praying to himself.
Luke 22:41-42: “and He knelt down and began to pray, saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."
So here God has a different will than himself???
Even in heaven JC is subjected to the Father, according to Corinthians 15:28, Matthew 20:23, Fillipens 2:9, and others.
So God is subjected to himself???
When JC was hanging at the cross, he cried out: “My God, my God, why did you forsake me?” Matthew 27:46
So God forsake himself???
Collossians 3:1; “set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.”
God is sitting on his own right hand???
God died at the cross, slaughtered by his own creatures?
If so, who resurrected him?
Remember there is only one God: Y-H-W-H who IS one.
Eliyahu light unto the nations
"Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE!" Deut 6:4
"All the peoples walk each in the name of his god, but as for us; we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God forever and ever!" Micah 4:5
This message is sent to you from Mount Zion, Jerusalem, Israel.
"From Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Y-H-W-H from Jerusalem." Isaiah 2:3, Micah 4:2
Elia
Well-known member
Bs'd
"God is ONE!" is no man's interpretation, it's a BIBLICAL fact.
Yes I know: "Then say to Pharaoh, ‘This is what Y-H-W-H says: Israel is my firstborn son, 23 and I told you, “Let my son go, so he may worship me.” But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.’” Ex 4
After those false scribes came prophets of God which gave the Jewish people the Torah again.
There is no indication that those false scribes changed the Torah.
Even if they did, after them came another prophet of God, Ezra, who presented to Israel the Torah, and of course, with Ezra being a prophet, he wouldn't give them a corrupted Torah.
Eliyahu
YahuShuan
New member
I agree that Yahuweh our Elohim is One. I don't advocate a "trinity" nor a "tri-unity", so you are not reading me correctly or are simply on a one track path here for no reason. You never answered the following: "Not yours, and not the christians either. I would not dare limit Him to not being able to create a sinless being and inhabit it as He so wished. I know He can and will do whatever HE chooses to do. If He wanted to visit Abraham and be in a human form, so be it. If He wanted to show us how HE as The Father desired to be loved and how to walk in the Torah HE gave, then so be it. We sure couldn't do it ourselves, any of us, without being SHOWN HOW."
Your version of God limits Him to a Greek linear way of thought, not Hebrew block logic. If you can't see Messiah ben David AND Messiah ben Yoseph in Yahu'Shua whose very Name means salvation comes from Yah, then I don't really know what to tell you. Not that you would listen anyway, but your learning comes from men...we who are believers ASK the Father and HE sends the "teacher", "comforter", the "Ruach ha Kodesh" to teach us who trust in HIM with our whole hearts. We no more need another rabbi than you need another tzitzit that don't matter. Yahu'Shua is our Rabbi, Yah is Our Father. And we "keep" and "guard the Commands". You ain't talkin to just another christian here brother. I repented and turned from my wicked ways. You have yet to do so. And until you say, regarding Messiah Yahu'Shua, "blessed is He who comes in the Name of Yah", you will not see Him again. Blood was required to satisfy the Covenant broken by Israel...Blood was paid by the Son of Yah...NOT ISRAEL. Your blood is being shed because you are out of obedience and did not listen to the most major Prophet ever sent to you, the One Isaiah prophecied about, and in His words..."you would not". So Jeremiah prophecied about you all the more, and included the nations, and the christians that spawned from Jerusalem. Hey...if christianity is wrong about the Messiah, then YOU are in trouble! It is the JEWS that spoawned it, isn't it. Can't blame that Messiah on "christians" can you. You guys did it. More of those "false pens" Elia? See, if you guys did it once, it seems to me you can't stop from doing it huh. By trying to disprove Messiah Yahu'Shua you only tell us that your words can not be trusted. Just like when the christians call Him "Jesus"...we both know that was not His Name, nor could it have been. Two groups...both liars. So which do we believe? NEITHER! We believe in Yah, His Word, His Son, that Word being made flesh and walked among us, HE lives in us. Us who believe HIM that is.
"No indication that those false scribes changed the Torah"...and you can prove that??? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
YahuShuan
New member
Elia...You used these verses: Exo 4:22 “And you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus said יהוה, “Yisra’ĕl is My son, My first-born,
Exo 4:23 so I say to you, let My son go to serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, see, I am killing your son, your first-born.” ’ ”
What are the four levels of interpreting those verses? FOUR LEVELS. You only give one.
Exo 4:23 so I say to you, let My son go to serve Me. But if you refuse to let him go, see, I am killing your son, your first-born.” ’ ”
What are the four levels of interpreting those verses? FOUR LEVELS. You only give one.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Ktoyou,
You are correct.
God classifies all people into one of three categories,
1. Jew, more properly translated Judean
2. Gentile
3. Church of God, ekklesia, called out of God.
the church of God are those who were Judean or Gentile but answered God's call and became one of the called out of God.
I Corinthians 10:32
oatmeal
oatmeal
Well-known member
Elia,
Your post is true.
You have the scripture, you see the logic of scripture and believe the scripture.
The points you have raised are as legitimate as Jesus Christ himself.
Thanks for loving truth so much so as to share it with others.
oatmeal
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