Can a Roman Catholic be a Christian?

Crucible

Crucible

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That^

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Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

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Must post again: A brief excerpt from "Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth"
(source link):

QUOTE:

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from unity with the pope in 1054. The Protestant churches were established during the Reformation, which began in 1517. (Most of today’s Protestant churches are actually offshoots of the original Protestant offshoots.)

Only the Catholic Church existed in the tenth century, in the fifth century, and in the first century, faithfully teaching the doctrines given by Christ to the apostles, omitting nothing. The line of popes can be traced back, in unbroken succession, to Peter himself. This is unequaled by any institution in history.

Even the oldest government is new compared to the papacy, and the churches that send out door-to-door missionaries are young compared to the Catholic Church. Many of these churches began as recently as the nineteenth or twentieth centuries. Some even began during your own lifetime. None of them can claim to be the Church Jesus established.

The Catholic Church has existed for nearly 2,000 years, despite constant opposition from the world. This is testimony to the Church’s divine origin. It must be more than a merely human organization, especially considering that its human members— even some of its leaders—have been unwise, corrupt, or prone to heresy.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

FOUR MARKS OF THE TRUE CHURCH

If we wish to locate the Church founded by Jesus, we need to locate the one that has the four chief marks or qualities of his Church. The Church we seek must be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic.

The Church Is One (Rom. 12:5, 1 Cor. 10:17, 12:13)
Jesus established only one Church, not a collection of differing churches. The Bible says the Church is the bride of Christ (Eph. 5:23–32). Jesus can have but one spouse, and his spouse is the Catholic Church. His Church also teaches just one set of doctrines, which must be the same as those taught by the apostles (Jude 3). This is the unity of belief to which Scripture calls us (Phil. 1:27, 2:2). Over the centuries, as doctrines are examined more fully, the Church comes to understand them more deeply (John 16:12–13), but it never understands them to mean the opposite of what they once meant.

The Church Is Holy (Eph. 5:25–27, Rev. 19:7–8)
By his grace Jesus makes the Church holy, just as he is holy. This doesn’t mean that each member is always holy. Jesus said there would be both good and bad members in the Church (John 6:70), and not all the members would go to heaven (Matt. 7:21–23). But the Church itself is holy because it is the source of holiness and is the guardian of the special means of grace Jesus established, the sacraments (cf. Eph. 5:26).

The Church Is Catholic (Matt. 28:19–20, Rev. 5:9–10)
Jesus’ Church is called catholic ("universal" in Greek) because it is his gift to all people. He told his apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations" (Matt. 28:19–20). For 2,000 years the Catholic Church has carried out this mission, preaching the good news that Christ died for all men and that he wants all of us to be members of his universal family (Gal. 3:28). Nowadays the Catholic Church is found in every country of the world and is still sending out missionaries to "make disciples of all nations" (Matt. 28:19). The Church Jesus established was known by its most common title, "the Catholic Church," at least as early as the year 107, when Ignatius of Antioch used that title to describe the one Church Jesus founded. The title apparently was old in Ignatius’s time, which means it probably went all the way back to the time of the apostles.

The Church Is Apostolic (Eph. 2:19–20)
The Church Jesus founded is apostolic because he appointed the apostles to be the first leaders of the Church, and their successors were to be its future leaders. The apostles were the first bishops, and, since the first century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic bishops faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Scripture and oral Tradition (2 Tim. 2:2). These beliefs include the bodily Resurrection of Jesus, the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the sacrificial nature of the Mass, the forgiveness of sins through a priest, baptismal regeneration, the existence of purgatory, Mary’s special role, and much more —even the doctrine of apostolic succession itself. Early Christian writings prove the first Christians were thoroughly Catholic in belief and practice and looked to the successors of the apostles as their leaders. What these first Christians believed is still believed by the Catholic Church. No other Church can make that claim.

Pillar of Fire, Pillar of Truth

Man’s ingenuity cannot account for this. The Church has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic—not through man’s effort, but because God preserves the Church he established (Matt. 16:18, 28:20). He guided the Israelites on their escape from Egypt by giving them a pillar of fire to light their way across the dark wilderness (Exod. 13:21). Today he guides us through his Catholic Church.

The Bible, sacred Tradition, and the writings of the earliest Christians testify that the Church teaches with Jesus’ authority. In this age of countless competing religions, each clamoring for attention, one voice rises above the din: the Catholic Church, which the Bible calls "the pillar and foundation of truth" (1 Tim. 3:15).

Jesus assured the apostles and their successors, the popes and the bishops, "He who listens to you listens to me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16). Jesus promised to guide his Church into all truth (John 16:12–13). We can have confidence that his Church teaches only the truth.

END EXCERPT QUOTE


 
H

HisServant

New member
Cruciform said:
The document that I linked plainly demonstrates the wildly inflated numbers that anti-Catholic apologists tend to try and pass off as "historically factual." Don't bother.

Also, don't forget to post the numbers of Catholics executed and murdered by Protestants during the Middle Ages as well. [HERE][HERE][HERE]

HERE is a list of the Catholic martyrs murdered by Protestants just during the English Rebellion of Henry VIII.


Small weight coming from a known public liar like yourself (Ex. 20:16; Prov. 19:5). Google "ad hominem fallacy," since that is the logical error you're engaged in here. :yawn:
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And you still did not acknowledge your fabrication in your original response... so you fill it with crap to try and deflect people from your intentionally misleading reply.

Screwtape really is the best name for you.
 
R

Robert Pate

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There is only one true church.

The true church is a spiritual church. There are no buildings, nor is there a paid staff.

The true church is made up of blood bought believers in Jesus Christ.

They believe that they have been redeemed, sanctified and justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus 1 Corinthians 1:30.
 
Catholic Crusader

Catholic Crusader

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HisServant said:
The Pope is a Romanist... he is NOT a Christian by any stretch of the imagination.
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LOL. He's more of a Christian in his pinky then you'll ever be your whole life.

Sherman said:
..........The admonition in scripture is quite simple.

]Acts 16:31 -- And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.........
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The devil believes, and trembles, according to scripture (James 2:19 ). Your post sucks.
 
Nihilo

Nihilo

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beameup said:
That's not what Jesus told us.
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Actually, what the Lord said in John 16:13 (KJV), He said to His Apostles. This is why we believe that the Apostles taught authoritatively the Christian faith. John 16:13 (KJV) is not a promise to me or to you, that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth, apart from the Church, which is founded upon the Apostles' doctrine (which means "teaching," cf. Acts 2:42 KJV).
 
Tambora

Tambora

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HisServant said:
Every Romanist I encounter makes the same claim, but when it is explored historically, it falls apart.

1.) It was illegal to be a Christian in Rome for the first 3 centuries after Jesus resurrection... if you were found to be a Christian, the sentence was death. (thrown to the lions and all that).

2.) None of the Apostles, except for Paul ever went to Rome... and Paul could get away with it because he was a Roman citizen and afforded certain privileges.

3.) Peter never went to Rome.. unless he had a time machine or transporter. His mission was to the 'circumcised'.. to the Jews.. there were very few Jews in Rome so it would also make no sense for Peter to go there.

4.) The Papal history for the first 3 centuries is a complete fabrication by Eusebius.. and he admits it in his writings.

5.) Rome is under a perpetual curse by God for its conquest and occupation of Israel.

6.) Archaeology proves that there was never a mother church in Rome. When Christianity did take root in Rome, it was to the poor slaves brought to Rome for far away conquests. They maintained their separate enclaves, separate churches and cemeteries and had a huge language barrier.

7.) The entire idea of a mother church in Rome was Romes fabrication, when Constantine supposedly converted and ordered Christianity to be the religion of the empire.. then he set his existing class of pagan priests to morph 'the way' to harmonize it with Roman sensibilities... what came out was a hybrid of Christian and Mithraic beliefs. This is why sacrimentalism came into christianity out of the blue... why eldership was converted into a priesthood (Rome had thousands of pagan priests on its payroll.. it just couldnt dismiss them.. so it force converted them. We also have evidence of pagan temples having their pagan god references chiseled off and replaces with pseudo Christian-Mithraic iconography... etc.

Romanism was invented in the 3rd century and has very little to do with Jesus and the Apostles teachings.
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Good post.

God said to be separate from the pagans, and not do as they do.
The RCC combined pagan practice with Christian practice.

God said to tear down and break into pieces the idols of the pagans.
But the RCC set up galleries and museums to display them, and even prominently displays in St. Peter's Square the monument (obelisk) brought to Rome and dedicated to, of all people, Caligula, one of the most famous non-Christian despots in history.
 
B

Ben Masada

New member
Robert Pate said:
There is only one true church.

The true church is a spiritual church. There are no buildings, nor is there a paid staff.

The true church is made up of blood bought believers in Jesus Christ.

They believe that they have been redeemed, sanctified and justified by the doing and the dying of Jesus 1 Corinthians 1:30.
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Yes, which never happened as the purpose why he died is concerned. (Jeremiah 31:30; Ezekiel 18;20)
 
L

Lazy afternoon

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themuzicman said:
Really? What else is needed besides grace and faith?
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Walking with Christ in reality, with a whole heart,not pretending or guessing.

It can be very difficult but achievable.

Deu 30:2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;


LA
 
Cruciform

Cruciform

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Can a Protestant sectarian who is in deliberate separation from Christ's one historic Catholic Church be a Christian?
 
J

jgarden

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Matthew 7:1-3 1. Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

:the_wave: :the_wave: :the_wave: :the_wave: :the_wave: :the_wave: :the_wave: :the_wave: :the_wave:
 
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