That is a great why to state it, religious paraphernalia. I would have never thought to use such terminology, although it is fitting.
Catholics keep relics and use prayer beads, just like pagans and tribal faiths.
Can a Roman Catholic be a Christian?
- Thread starter Lazy afternoon
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That is a great why to state it, religious paraphernalia. I would have never thought to use such terminology, although it is fitting.
Catholics keep relics and use prayer beads, just like pagans and tribal faiths.
Especially if you would like to divorce the word "Church" from all history, which seems to be what people not only want to do, but MUST do, in order to hold to their own private and wrong interpretations of Scripture and of the one Christian faith.
You should peruse the Catechism to make sure.
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Careful.
The "pagan influence fallacy" can be used (wrongly) to discredit the entirety of Christianity....not just Catholicism.
Peace.
For me, it does not and that is what matter to me, not some consensus view. Catholics have demigods on Saints who may absolve one, even their high priests have the power of absolution. All this comes from a pagan multi-deity mental process/ arrangement.
The best credit, as towards credential worthy is, to argue the divinity of Christ, without falling into polytheism; this has been done well by me, as well, many others in past posts.
The best credit, as towards credential worthy is, to argue the divinity of Christ, without falling into polytheism; this has been done well by me, as well, many others in past posts.
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
You have stated a misconception that you have about Catholicism above.
In Catholicism, there is only one high priest. Jesus Christ.
There are no other high priests.
I wonder how many other misconceptions you hold about the Catholic Church.
Peace.
The other thing that you MUST realize, whether you're not Catholic or Catholic, is that for almost exactly 1000 years there was no non-trivial disagreement that the Church of Scripture was the Church, period. The Catholic Church. How the world thought about and perceived the Church was simpler. Now here we are almost exactly 1000 years after the Schism of 1054, and the Catholic Church provides the exact way in which both she, and all those non-Catholics who "have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church," are all together, the same Church of Scripture.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Did Peter write this to just the Priesthood or to the entire church?
1 Peter 2King James Version (KJV)
2 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
1 Peter 2King James Version (KJV)
2 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
Catholic teaching is that we are all priests.
CCC 1268 The baptized have become "living stones" to be "built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood." By Baptism they share in the priesthood of Christ, in his prophetic and royal mission. They are "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that [they] may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called [them] out of darkness into his marvelous light." Baptism gives a share in the common priesthood of all believers.
No catholic wanted to tackle this question I asked, so I repeat it here:
I have believed in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for 30+ years. I believe that, though His death, He has paid for the sins of the world, past, present, and future. I believe Jesus Christ is God in the person of the trinity, as the Son of God. He is the creator of all. I have never doubted these things. I fell that I have total faith in these things.
However, if I have never been baptized and never will (I fully believe it was only for Israel) and have never taken the eucharist or the Lord's supper and never will (here again, belongs to Israel), am I saved?
I have believed in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for 30+ years. I believe that, though His death, He has paid for the sins of the world, past, present, and future. I believe Jesus Christ is God in the person of the trinity, as the Son of God. He is the creator of all. I have never doubted these things. I fell that I have total faith in these things.
However, if I have never been baptized and never will (I fully believe it was only for Israel) and have never taken the eucharist or the Lord's supper and never will (here again, belongs to Israel), am I saved?
The popes teach that, "God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments."
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
I am willing to answer your question. I have never heard you ask it before, but I will answer it.
But first, why are you changing the subject? Why don't you answer the question I put to you just a few posts ago first?
Here is what you said:
My question to you was: Where does the Bible teach that there is "nothing else included"?
I will gladly answer your tangential question after you answer that one.
(I don't find your new question to be that difficult to respond to.)
Peace.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I never start anything, only finish. Not a misconceptions holder either.
I prefer the other side of the 'Schism'.
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Hey SaulToPaul,
The reason is because the New Covenant priesthood is set up just like the Old Covenant priesthood.
1. There is one High Priest. (Replaceable in the Old Covenant because they died but not so in the New Covenant because it is Jesus Christ and He lives forever.)
2. There is a "universal" priesthood or "priesthood of all believers". This was present in the Old Covenant as well as in the New Covenant.
3. There is a "ministerial" priesthood that performs duties that are different from either of the two above mentioned. This was present in the Old Covenant (Levites) as well as in the New Covenant.
The reason the ministerial priesthood minister to the universal priesthood at Mass is because they have different roles. That's all. Just like it was in the Old Covenant.
Peace.
Bard_the_Bowman
New member
Hey Ktoyou,
I'm only guessing but I think maybe you are bi or multi-lingual. That is awesome but I think we are misunderstanding each other a little. I will try to clarify.
If you think that the Catholic Church has any high priest other than Jesus Christ you are wrong. It doesn't.
If you believe that..... it is a misunderstanding on your part or a misconception.
Peace.
Your question: Where does the Bible teach that there is "nothing else included"? (faith alone for salvation?).
1 Cor 15:1-4 All you need is to believe - faith. Nothing else is mentioned.
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 2:8-9 Nothing but faith - no works.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 1:13-14 Once you believe Paul's Gospel (above), you're sealed with the Holy Spirit and have permanent salvation.
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Act 16:30-31 Nothing but faith.
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
John 3:16 Many have gotten saved from this verse. Here again, all you need do is believe.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
_____________________________________________
Someone mentioned Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. In the Gospels, Christ was ministering ONLY to Israel - Matthew 10:5, Matthew 15:24, Romans 15:8, John 1:31. Of course, everything in the Gospels is truth and Christ's words are blessed. It's just that the Gospels weren't addressed to me or you, as Gentiles.
In another place, Christ said to keep the commandments to get saved - Mt 19:16-17. That's not for you or me either. Besides being for Israel, it conflicts with Eph 2:8-9, where Paul says that NO works are necessary for salvation. When things obviously conflict, it's usually because one didn't rightly divide, 2 Tim 2:15. I am a Gentile. Since Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles and Jesus Christ was a minister to Israel. I "try the things that differ" - see margin - Phil 1:10, then rightly divide the 2 verses and choose Pauls.
It must be your turn.
1 Cor 15:1-4 All you need is to believe - faith. Nothing else is mentioned.
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Eph 2:8-9 Nothing but faith - no works.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 1:13-14 Once you believe Paul's Gospel (above), you're sealed with the Holy Spirit and have permanent salvation.
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Act 16:30-31 Nothing but faith.
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
John 3:16 Many have gotten saved from this verse. Here again, all you need do is believe.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
_____________________________________________
Someone mentioned Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. In the Gospels, Christ was ministering ONLY to Israel - Matthew 10:5, Matthew 15:24, Romans 15:8, John 1:31. Of course, everything in the Gospels is truth and Christ's words are blessed. It's just that the Gospels weren't addressed to me or you, as Gentiles.
In another place, Christ said to keep the commandments to get saved - Mt 19:16-17. That's not for you or me either. Besides being for Israel, it conflicts with Eph 2:8-9, where Paul says that NO works are necessary for salvation. When things obviously conflict, it's usually because one didn't rightly divide, 2 Tim 2:15. I am a Gentile. Since Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles and Jesus Christ was a minister to Israel. I "try the things that differ" - see margin - Phil 1:10, then rightly divide the 2 verses and choose Pauls.
It must be your turn.
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