Calvinism: Only Some People Have the Ability to Believe the Gospel

[MennoSota]

You did nothing but evade the issue. The Apostle Paul plainly stated that those who are perishing were blinded to the light of the gospel.

No one can be blinded unless they can first see the light!

Your whole theology, from beginning to end, is dependent on the idea that those who were already blind to the light of the gospel can be blinded again!

Are you really this dense?

Have you ever known a person who was blind at birth?
You are working hard to excuse and twist what Paul says in order to justify your false teaching. I addressed the text and I showed that Paul teaches about God choosing, not men having free will.
Jerry, it seems you are blind to the scriptures.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Have you ever known a person who was blind at birth?
You are working hard to excuse and twist what Paul says in order to justify your false teaching. I addressed the text and I showed that Paul teaches about God choosing, not men having free will.
Jerry, it seems you are blind to the scriptures.

You are not only blind to the Scriptures but you are able to trick your mind into believing that someone who is already blind can be blinded again.

 

[MennoSota]

You are not only blind to the Scriptures but you are able to trick your mind into believing that someone who is already blind can be blinded again.

Nice try. I provided a Reformed answer to your challenge. You are struggling to deal with it.

 

[beloved57]

So?

That does not change the fact that even those who are perishing have the ability to see the light of the gospel. Are you willing to argue that the "god of this age" can blind them even though they are already blind?

No where does Paul say or write that the perishing have the ability to see , hear or believe the Gospel. You are making that false assumption. The lost which all are naturally have their minds blinded by the god of this world. See 2 Cor 4:3-4

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[beloved57]

So?

That does not change the fact that even those who are perishing have the ability to see the light of the gospel. Are you willing to argue that the "god of this age" can blind them even though they are already blind?

False comment no where in scripture. Unless a man is born again he can't see the kingdom of God, nor can the natural man receive or know the things of the Spirit of God. Jn 3:3; 1 Cor 2:14. Both verses deny that man has ability.

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[Jerry Shugart]

False comment no where in scripture. Unless a man is born again he can't see the kingdom of God, nor can the natural man receive or know the things of the Spirit of God. Jn 3:3; 1 Cor 2:14. Both verses deny that man has ability.

So that is your final answer and you will continue to think that the god of this age can blind those who are already blind.

The Apostle Paul "reasoned out of the Scriptures" (Acts 17:2) but in order to believe your ideas we must throw reason to the wind!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Nice try. I provided a Reformed answer to your challenge. You are struggling to deal with it.

You still have not explained how the god of this age can blind those who are already blind.

 

[beloved57]

So that is your final answer and you will continue to think that the god of this age can blind those who are already blind.

The Apostle Paul "reasoned out of the Scriptures" (Acts 17:2) but in order to believe your ideas we must throw reason to the wind!

Thats scripture. You are making comments that are nowhere found in scripture. Those that are lost have their minds blinded, its as plain as the noon day sun !

 

[beloved57]

You still have not explained how the god of this age can blind those who are already blind.

Theres nothing to explain. Its a stated fact, those that are lost have their minds blinded by the god of this world. Lets read 2 Cor 4:3-4

[FONT=&quot]3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

You must explain how that one who is lost can believe that which is hid from their minds![/FONT]

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Thats scripture. You are making comments that are nowhere found in scripture. Those that are lost have their minds blinded, its as plain as the noon day sun !

But the Calvinsts teach that the minds of those who perish are blind at birth.

You still have not explained how the god of this age can blind those who are already blind.

You must explain how that one who is lost can believe that which is hid from their minds!

It is hidden from their mind because the god of this age has blinded them to the light of the gospel.

 

[beloved57]

But the Calvinsts teach that the minds of those who perish are blind at birth.

You still have not explained how the god of this age can blind those who are already blind.

Man is born spiritually lost so he is born spiritually blind. So again the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, so explain how lost man has the ability to believe the Gospel when its hid.

 

[MennoSota]

You still have not explained how the god of this age can blind those who are already blind.

I don't need to. Blind is blind.
Do you feel the need to explain how people who are dead in trespasses and sins can eat and breathe, yet be dead to Christ? Ephesians 2:1-10 says they are dead.
Perhaps you just want a crutch to prop up your false doctrine and you'll use any excuse to keep your crutch.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Man is born spiritually lost so he is born spiritually blind.

That is ridiculous because the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren in all things:

"For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people" (Heb.2:16-17).​

Matthew Poole wrote that "To be made like unto his brethren; a man having a true body and soul like them in every thing, which was necessary to make him a complete Redeemer; agreeable to them in all things necessary to their nature, qualities, conditions, and affections; like them in sorrows, griefs, pains, death."

According to Poole the Lord Jesus' body and soul was just like the body and soul of every person.

Albert Barnes sees the same truth, writing that "Wherefore in all things - In respect to his body; his soul; his rank and character. There was a propriety that he should be like them, and should partake of their nature."

There is no substantial reason for not believing that Christ was made like His brethren in all things so it is patently ridiculous to argue that all people emerge from the womb spiritually dead!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I don't need to.

If you want your theory to have any credibility then the burden of proof is upon you to explain how someone who is already blind can be blinded.

 

[beloved57]

That is ridiculous because the Lord Jesus was made like His brethren in all things:

"For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people" (Heb.2:16-17).​

Matthew Poole wrote that "To be made like unto his brethren; a man having a true body and soul like them in every thing, which was necessary to make him a complete Redeemer; agreeable to them in all things necessary to their nature, qualities, conditions, and affections; like them in sorrows, griefs, pains, death."

According to Poole the Lord Jesus' body and soul was just like the body and soul of every person.

Albert Barnes sees the same truth, writing that "Wherefore in all things - In respect to his body; his soul; his rank and character. There was a propriety that he should be like them, and should partake of their nature."

There is no substantial reason for not believing that Christ was made like His brethren in all things so it is patently ridiculous to argue that all people emerge from the womb spiritually dead!

Yes man is born lost, dead in trespasses and sins. So he being born lost he is born blinded by satan. So explain how one lost and the gospel is hidden from them how they have the ability to believe what is concealed from them. 2 Cor 4:3

 

[beloved57]

If you want your theory to have any credibility then the burden of proof is upon you to explain how someone who is already blind can be blinded.

You need to explain how that one who is lost has the ability to believe the gospel. Paul says the lost have the Gospel concealed from them. That word hid in the original is kalyptōand means:

to hide, veil

1. to hinder the knowledge of a thing
   
   Not only that the word is in the perfect tense denoting that its a complted action from the past with results into the present. So as long as a person is in a lost state the Gospel is hidden , they wont be able to come into the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You need to explain how that one who is lost has the ability to believe the gospel.

Because the gospel comes in power and in the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5). Sinners who believe are regenerated or born again by the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Yes man is born lost, dead in trespasses and sins.

If you are right then the Lord Jesus was also born lost and dead in sins because He was made like His brethren IN ALL THINGS!

 

[beloved57]

Because the gospel comes in power and in the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5). Sinners who believe are regenerated or born again by the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

You havent explained how a lost person can believe the gospel when its concealed from them.

 

[beloved57]

If you are right then the Lord Jesus was also born lost and dead in sins because He was made like His brethren IN ALL THINGS!

More blasphemy. Man is born lost, spiritually dead in sin, mind blinded by the god of this world. So please tell me how a lost person can believe what is concealed from their mind ?