Calvinism: Only Some People Have the Ability to Believe the Gospel

[john w]

Saint John, your 'board,' is quite irrelevant.
How many visits do you think the Holy See's web Domain (they don't just have a 'website,' they have the whole '.va' domain) has by now? Do you think it's more or less than 16 thousand?
Did you see what I did there? Contrasts indeed.
Mm-hmm.

The Catholic Church teaches that salvation is through faith alone, which became clear after the Second Vatican Church Council, when she finally openly expressed the authentic Christian faith on the matter of those not in full communion with her. We are all Catholics on the way to full communion, and we are all rightly and justly called 'Christians,' and we will all meet in glory, celebrating together the heavenly Mass for eternity, glorifying God, the Father, the Spirit, and the only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the king of the universe.

Translated: Peek a boo....We see you, wolfie....

I do not like wolves, in our territory.....Saint John The Rifleman I am....

 

[7djengo7]

Not at all. You are demanding such because you cannot wrap your head around the fact that humans are born dead in their trespasses and sins. You cannot accept what God says and you are scrambling to prop your crutch up. Good luck with that.

Can you cite which verse, in Scripture, says that "humans are born dead in their trespasses and sins"?

It's not Ephesians 2:1. I checked.

It's not Romans 9:10, either:

"10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth"

Seems that at least these two historical individuals, Jacob and Esau, from at least the time of their conception in Rebecca's womb, until at least the time when they were born and exited that womb, had done no evil--no evil works. Do you think that, despite the fact that, as long as Jacob and Esau were in utero they had never yet done any evil works, they nevertheless had, somehow, done trespasses and sins? Can you refer me to where, in Scripture, a differentiation is made between, on the one hand, evil works, and on the other hand, trespasses and sins? And, which are more evil: evil works, or trespasses and sins?

What Paul wrote:

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"

What you wrote:

"humans are born dead in their trespasses and sins"

Why did you paste in the word 'born'? Did the Westminster divines say you must do so pursuant to good and necessary consequence?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Does Hebrews 2:17 KJV indicate that He was the same height or complexion, or have the same eye and hair color, as His brethren? No of course it doesn't, but then how can it be that He 'was made like His brethren IN ALL THINGS,' if it's not really 'IN ALL THINGS?' Maybe you're eisegetically reading some things into that phrase that's not there, since surely hair and eye color, and basic build, height, etc., fall under 'ALL THINGS?'

One thing which certainly falls under "all things" is the fact that the Lord Jesus was made like David who said the following:

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Ps.139:13-14).​

Despite that fact Rome says that people are born with a fallen human nature which is tainted by original sin! Augustine even said this:

"Our bodies would not have been born with defects, and there would have been no human monsters, if Adam had not corrupted our nature by his sin."​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Can you cite which verse, in Scripture, says that "humans are born dead in their trespasses and sins"?

It's not Ephesians 2:1. I checked.

As you have noticed by now those who follow the teaching of Rome just make things up!

The fact of the matter is that people die spiritually as a result of their own sin and not as a result of Adam's sin:

"And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins" (Eph.2:1; ASV).​

In The Pulpit Commentary we read that "the death ascribed to the Ephesians in their natural state is evidently spiritual death, and 'trespasses and sins,' being in the dative seems to indicate the cause of death - 'dead through your trespasses and your sins' (R.V.)."

 

[Idolater]

'Believe in Christ's Resurrection'-Me

You:

Translated: Peek a boo....We see you, wolfie....

That doesn't even make sense.

 

[Idolater]

One thing which certainly falls under "all things" is the fact that the Lord Jesus was made like David who said the following:

"For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well" (Ps.139:13-14).​

David also said of himself:

"I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." (Ps51:5KJV)​

So what of it? Which time was David right? Or was he right both times?

Despite that fact Rome says that people are born with a fallen human nature which is tainted by original sin! Augustine even said this:

"Our bodies would not have been born with defects, and there would have been no human monsters, if Adam had not corrupted our nature by his sin."​

And OK, Augustine said this. What of it?

 

[MennoSota]

Can you cite which verse, in Scripture, says that "humans are born dead in their trespasses and sins"?

It's not Ephesians 2:1. I checked.

It's not Romans 9:10, either:



Seems that at least these two historical individuals, Jacob and Esau, from at least the time of their conception in Rebecca's womb, until at least the time when they were born and exited that womb, had done no evil--no evil works. Do you think that, despite the fact that, as long as Jacob and Esau were in utero they had never yet done any evil works, they nevertheless had, somehow, done trespasses and sins? Can you refer me to where, in Scripture, a differentiation is made between, on the one hand, evil works, and on the other hand, trespasses and sins? And, which are more evil: evil works, or trespasses and sins?

What Paul wrote:

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"

What you wrote:

"humans are born dead in their trespasses and sins"

Why did you paste in the word 'born'? Did the Westminster divines say you must do so pursuant to good and necessary consequence?

Mere pretzeling on your part. Let's get down to the nuts and bolts of your claim.
You claim that humans are conceived and born into this world in sinless perfection. This means that all humanity has the potential to be perfect and spotless lambs who need no atonement. Jesus sacrificial death was useless for them because they, like Jesus are perfect in all things.
Yet, you bring up Jacob and Esau who were already fighting in their mother's womb. Even before birth their natural corruption was manifest. Thus, you have provided evidence that entirely weakens your claim.
As to your dismissal of scripture, such behavior is needed on your part. If you were to take God as speaking truth, you would have to abandon your position. Your pride will not allow such a thing.
This we know:
Humans are all dead in their trespasses and sins.
All Humans need atonement for their sins.
God only atones for the sins of the elect.

 

[beloved57]

Can you cite which verse, in Scripture, says that "humans are born dead in their trespasses and sins"?

It's not Ephesians 2:1. I checked.

It's not Romans 9:10, either:



Seems that at least these two historical individuals, Jacob and Esau, from at least the time of their conception in Rebecca's womb, until at least the time when they were born and exited that womb, had done no evil--no evil works. Do you think that, despite the fact that, as long as Jacob and Esau were in utero they had never yet done any evil works, they nevertheless had, somehow, done trespasses and sins? Can you refer me to where, in Scripture, a differentiation is made between, on the one hand, evil works, and on the other hand, trespasses and sins? And, which are more evil: evil works, or trespasses and sins?

What Paul wrote:

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"

What you wrote:

"humans are born dead in their trespasses and sins"

Why did you paste in the word 'born'? Did the Westminster divines say you must do so pursuant to good and necessary consequence?

By nature men/ the elect are children of wrath as others Eph 2:3

3 [FONT=&quot]Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

[/FONT]That word nature physis means:

birth, physical origin

So there we have it. Man by nature/origin, birth are children of wrath, worthy of wrath