Calvinism: Only Some People Have the Ability to Believe the Gospel

[MennoSota]

Faith is what causes being made alive in Christ:

"And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name" (Jn.20:30-31).​

The Calvinists cannot even understand this simple fact. Life comes as a result of believing and not before believing, as they imagine.



A person has to hear the gospel before he can believe and be saved. Perhaps you haven't gotten around to reading the tenth chapter of the epistle to the Romans yet (Ro.10:13-17)?

Since the gospel comes in the power of the Holy Spirit (1 Pet.1:12) anyone can be saved if they don't resist the Spirit.

A person, dead in their trespasses and sins cannot conjure up faith, just as a physically dead human cannot physically walk to the Chinese restaurant and eat Peking Chicken.
The Bible tells us that GOD makes us alive in Christ Jesus, not faith. Faith is not a cause agent. Faith is an effect given to those who have been caused, by God, to be made alive in Christ. Ephesians 2:1-10 is so very clear on this. You have outright contradicted God by stating "faith is what causes being made alive in Christ." God does not say what you have stated. Go read for yourself.

Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. 2 You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God.3 All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.

4 But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, 5 that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) 6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.7 So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.

8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

 

[beloved57]

jerry

Faith is what causes being made alive in Christ:

False statement nowhere to be found in scripture. Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 so they who have it evidently have the Spirit of Christ

 

[beloved57]

jerry

A person has to hear the gospel before he can believe and be saved.

Exactly and one must be of God to hear Gods words Jn 8:43,47

43 [FONT=&quot]Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

[/FONT]47[FONT=&quot]He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Now according to Jesus who is it that hears Gods words, which the Gospel is ?[/FONT]

 

[john w]

Can you not understand that a dead man cannot see, cannot hear and cannot believe until he is first made alive in Christ?
Can a dead man make themselves come to life...or must God make them alive? What sayeth the Bible?

You argue, I, assume, citing Ephesians 2:1 KJV, that dead men can't respond.

Survey Romans 6 KJV-to whom is Paul addressing? Saints, members of the boc-"ye:"

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.



If being dead in sin means one can't respond to God, "a dead man cannot see, cannot hear and cannot believe..."-then does being dead to sin mean that the Christian, the saved individual, who has the spirit of Christ within them, cannot respond to sin?

Well?


John 5 KJV
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.


The hearing, precedes the living.....How can one hear anything, Calvinist/Clavinist, if, according to your own argument,he/she is "dead? The Calvinist would argue men/women are "dead, unconscious, unresponsive, and unaware," akin to the corpses lying in the cemeteries, yet the Lord Jesus Christ asserts that they could hear.


Well?

 

[glorydaz]

I'm betting that you think Paul is teaching free will when he speaks to the Athenians? I'm betting you ignore the rest of scripture to force your philosophy into scripture.

Did you go back and read the Scripture Paul was quoting?

I rest my case.

 

[MennoSota]

Did you go back and read the Scripture Paul was quoting?

I rest my case.

From Acts 17? Yes. You are twisted up to read free will into Paul's dialogue with the Athenians.

 

[glorydaz]

From Acts 17? Yes. You are twisted up to read free will into Paul's dialogue with the Athenians.

No, from Psalms....14 and 53


And, I'm not "twisted up" about what Paul says, either.

Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

 

[MennoSota]

No, from Psalms....14 and 53


And, I'm not "twisted up" about what Paul says, either.

Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Those whom God makes alive in Christ do seek God. Those whom God leaves in their state of deadness do not seek God. There is no contradiction with Paul's quoting the Psalms and declaring that no one seeks God, not even one.

 

[MennoSota]

Again, the very thread title is false, which means the OP has started with a false position and he cannot rectify it by trying to prove it correct. Wrong is wrong.

 

[glorydaz]

Those whom God makes alive in Christ do seek God. Those whom God leaves in their state of deadness do not seek God. There is no contradiction with Paul's quoting the Psalms and declaring that no one seeks God, not even one.

Ah, so you get to add, "Those whom God makes alive in Christ do seek God".
You're claiming Paul just neglected to state that, as did the author of the Psalm? :chuckle:

What would we do without you? :chuckle:

 

[glorydaz]

Again, the very thread title is false, which means the OP has started with a false position and he cannot rectify it by trying to prove it correct. Wrong is wrong.

:troll:

 

[MennoSota]

Ah, so you get to add, "Those whom God makes alive in Christ do seek God".
You're claiming Paul just neglected to state that, as did the author of the Psalm? :chuckle:

What would we do without you? :chuckle:

No, I'm saying they didn't need to say it. You should know it.

 

[john w]

Again, the very thread title is false, which means the OP has started with a false position and he cannot rectify it by trying to prove it correct. Wrong is wrong.

Wrong is wrong

Next up: It is, what it is.


Teach us. Please?

 

[MennoSota]

Next up: It is, what it is.


Teach us. Please?

I have. I have pointed you to Ephesians 1 and 2.
Some have ears to hear. Beloved57 hears.

 

[john w]

I have. I have pointed you to Ephesians 1 and 2.
Some have ears to hear. Beloved57 hears.

Wrong is wrong.

So there. You taught us that-we learned that from you.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

...Beloved57 hears.

Yes on some matters, an unqualified no on important matters:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Faith-Alone&p=4869475&viewfull=1#post4869475

For more:
http://www.romans45.org/articles/hypercal.htm

Amos 3:3

BTW, FYI:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...the-Gospel-!&p=5159685&viewfull=1#post5159685

Hang in there.

AMR

 

[MennoSota]

Yes on some matters, an unqualified no on important matters:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Faith-Alone&p=4869475&viewfull=1#post4869475

For more:
http://www.romans45.org/articles/hypercal.htm

Amos 3:3

BTW, FYI:
http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...the-Gospel-!&p=5159685&viewfull=1#post5159685

Hang in there.

AMR

Thanks for the article on hypercalvinism. I haven't been exposed to this. I came out of free will (Mennonite Brethren) and by Providence found myself at Bethlehem Baptist where both John Piper and Thomas Schreiner were teaching. I just kept reading scripture and challenging their claims, but they gently questioned and pointed out scripture that I was left to consider. I'm still in process. I like Arthur Pinks "The seven sayings of the Savior on the cross" and "The Attributes of God."
I keep reading scripture. I can no longer be an Arminian because the scriptures show that free will is not possible because God is fully Sovereign. I also see that the gospel is spoken to all, even though the elect will be the only ones who hear the gospel and recognize it is not foolishness, but is truth that gives life.

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Thanks for the article on hypercalvinism. I haven't been exposed to this. I came out of free will (Mennonite Brethren) and by Providence found myself at Bethlehem Baptist where both John Piper and Thomas Schreiner were teaching.

Are you still a member there? If not seek out a confessional church depending upon your Baptist or Presbyterian leanings: Credo (LBCF) or Paedo baptistic(WCF).

I just kept reading scripture and challenging their claims, but they gently questioned and pointed out scripture that I was left to consider. I'm still in process. I like Arthur Pinks "The seven sayings of the Savior on the cross" and "The Attributes of God."

We are all a work in progress.

Try this for the full systematic treatment:
http://downloads.biblicaltraining.org/Systematic Theology by Louis Berkhof.pdf

This for a more terse and formalized treatment (see also Ch. 8 on theology proper):
http://www.davidcox.com.mx/library/H/Hodge, A A - Outlines of Systematic Theology.pdf

I keep reading scripture. I can no longer be an Arminian because the scriptures show that free will is not possible because God is fully Sovereign. I also see that the gospel is spoken to all, even though the elect will be the only ones who hear the gospel and recognize it is not foolishness, but is truth that gives life.

Most will resist recognizing just how dire their state really is. The humanistic tendency is to cling to being "in charge" with a level of autonomy that cannot be found in Holy Writ. From that comes the denial of the full effects of the fall of Adam.

We all have free will, properly defined. We are just not as free as we think we are, nor are we as free as God. Our freedom is self-determination. We make choices, real choices, most of which have moral consequences. It is just that those who have not been born-anew (regenerated) cannot choose to not sin as a direct result of the corruption of their natures from the fall of Adam. All their self-determining choices are at enmity with God. Their motives are not aright. Their inclinations are not for the glory of God. If and until God acts first, they will remain in this dire state...in Adam.

Once God acts, the natures of these persons is radically changed, such that one's self-determining choices will be for the good. They will instantaneously seek the righteousness of God. The ordinary means of this radical change is by the hearing of the Good News. For those whom God has set His preferences upon, the efficacious grace from the power of the Holy Spirit quickens them from their dire state in Adam. They hear the Good News inwardly and faith is the firstfruit of their quickening.

Keep reading and studying Scripture, for therein is our sole rule of life for all that we think, do, or say. Rely upon those saints that have come before us to test your conclusions and interpretations. Seek out older men of faith in the church that have years of experience and wisdom on difficult matters with which you wrestle.

Feed your faith and starve your temptations or doubts by not neglecting daily Scripture study, rejoicing in hope, being patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer (Romans 12:12), fellowship with other believers, keeping good stewardship of the secular and spiritual gifts God has given you—including how and where your time is being spent—and with regular corporate assembly with others to worship God, receive instruction, access the ordinary means of grace through Word and Sacrament, and be subject to discipline.

Lastly, resist the "cage-stage" of your newfound views:
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-doctrines-of-graciousness



AMR

 

[Robert Pate]

Thanks for the article on hypercalvinism. I haven't been exposed to this. I came out of free will (Mennonite Brethren) and by Providence found myself at Bethlehem Baptist where both John Piper and Thomas Schreiner were teaching. I just kept reading scripture and challenging their claims, but they gently questioned and pointed out scripture that I was left to consider. I'm still in process. I like Arthur Pinks "The seven sayings of the Savior on the cross" and "The Attributes of God."
I keep reading scripture. I can no longer be an Arminian because the scriptures show that free will is not possible because God is fully Sovereign. I also see that the gospel is spoken to all, even though the elect will be the only ones who hear the gospel and recognize it is not foolishness, but is truth that gives life.

If you don't come to Christ as a repentant sinner to be saved by him and by him alone, you will perish. It is not the Gospel plus your Calvinist religion, it is Jesus Christ and his Gospel plus nothing. When you add religion to the Gospel you have perverted the Gospel and have perverted your faith.

 

[beloved57]

If you don't come to Christ as a repentant sinner to be saved by him and by him alone, you will perish. It is not the Gospel plus your Calvinist religion, it is Jesus Christ and his Gospel plus nothing. When you add religion to the Gospel you have perverted the Gospel and have perverted your faith.

Placing salvation in the hands of the sinner, Thats a law gospel of works ! Do or die as in the law !