Calling all Open Theists for Feedback

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Jesus will ascend from the earth and we will meet him in the clouds. We will then go to the Mount of Olives.

I'm certain you mean descend... He already ascended in Acts 1... am I understanding correctly?

The part where the alive in Him and on the earth meet Him is critical! The fact that He is defending this place is critical. When prophecy says that the Son of Perdition will stand in His temple... and knowing what HIS true temple is and heading Christ's warning... we know full well that the last deception may very well be in the Name, of the temple of God.

For doctrine... the gathering to Him is important. For doctrine... our assistance of the Jews is important because the Nations that "are Entered into Judgment" will be against Israel. This is a matter I won't discuss any further here as it is already a tense subject...

You're a pill Jamie.

You push me to the edge of scripture every time you speak. Genuinely... You have always sharpened me, and I thank you for this!

I will drop one pearl for your scriptural determination and perpetual sharpening of my iron with your relevant questions and challenging wording... Psalm 18 is about what you wrote about, from the perspective of the Israelite's.

 

[jamie]

Would you provide some verses on that?

For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son... (John 5:22)

And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My words has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. (John 12:47-48)

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? (1 Corinthians 6:2)​

 

[jamie]

I'm certain you mean descend... He already ascended in Acts 1... am I understanding correctly?

But to you who fear My name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings... (Malachi 4:2)​

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son... (John 5:22)

And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My words has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. (John 12:47-48)

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? (1 Corinthians 6:2)​

Jamie... You are appealing to the Z of my O.D.B.Z. Label in my signature. What can I say?

:thumb:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

But to you who fear My name the Sun of Righteousness shall arise with healing in His wings... (Malachi 4:2)​

You are correct... but... the ascension of the matter is referring to this (Mk. 14:62)... Per this (Mt. 26:64)

In other words... He's our rising Sun on our darkest day. More specifically... He's the rising sun on Israel's darkest day. But, He's coming... thus He's descending. But in a Spiritual sense, there will be deep joy, like a sunrise after a long storm and drought.

In fact... It will be something like this...

Zech. 14:4 ... We can't be sure... but it sounds like God landing on a mountain to me. Spoiler alert... God Wins.

You are in your B-I-B-L-E on a mass level!

:cheers:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Allright... No more Z talk. I'll totally lose focus. Someone hammer in the A-Temporal... Temporal discussion of this OP.

: )

 

[jamie]

You are correct... but... the ascension of the matter is referring to this... Per this (Mt. 26:64)

Jesus is seated on the right hand of the Father in terms of authority in the spiritual dimension and we are seated there with him.

However, he will reveal himself to the world from the clouds of the physical dimension.

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Jesus is seated on the right hand of the Father in terms of authority in the spiritual dimension and we are seated there with him.

However, he will reveal himself to the world from the clouds of the physical dimension.

I'm smiling... I'll admit it... EE is smiling!

You nailed that! :turbo:

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Jesus is seated on the right hand of the Father in terms of authority in the spiritual dimension and we are seated there with him.

However, He will reveal himself to the world from the clouds of the physical dimension.

And the clouds are more than that... they are indeed us and the Angels. Since we will "be like Angels". We can now say... It will be Angels and us "like Angels".

I seriously have to start another OP on this! But... this is a dangerous discussion... people get so "caught up" in the matter... sometimes doctrine goes "south" here.

Joel, Revelation and many other places iterate this over and over. We just don't know how it will all go down... but we can guarantee it'll be the Show Stopper of Show Stoppers.

 

[Lon]

I fully see it the other way around. I had verses and everything ready for every word you wrote... but it comes down to 3 issues we see differently.

Iron sharpens iron. Faithful are the wounds of a friend. We both desire to be biblical. There can be no harm between us, only understanding. On this, attack the premise, we don't wrestle with flesh and blood between us, but principality.

As far as the OV/Reformed emphasis, it has always been this way. The Open View seeks the relationship of God with man as its focus. They are clear that they believe the omnis do not in fact exist but that we are invaded with Greek philosophy.

Regarding freewill, yes, I'd like to see those scriptures. I don't believe our freewill is at all a gift of God, but rather a direct result of the Fall. "Man has now become like us..."

 

[glorydaz]

The Father judges no one and Jesus does not judge unbelievers, we do.

For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son... (John 5:22)

And if anyone hears My words and does not believe, I do not judge him for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My words has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. (John 12:47-48)

Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? (1 Corinthians 6:2)​

It was your use of the term "unbelievers" which implies a different kind of judgement.

Notice what Paul says here 1 Cor. 5:13KJV So, you need to look a bit deeper concerning the verses you've offered.

To judge is simply to examine the facts and come to a conclusion, or it can mean to govern or rule. We certainly won't be judging unbelievers as lost....we can judge them, now, as wrong (and that's discernment).

 

[freelight]

Creation's Engagement.......

Creation's Engagement.......

God is utterly omniscient. Humanity desires to believe that life is on rails. People desire to have control or be controlled, but the idea of everything being under a deep architectural design that contains the ensured revelation of the most important aspect of ALL EXISTENCE (John 5:39) ... and the conclusion to all of this... that is simultaneously death and rebirth of everything (Rev. 21:1) and ensures Justice that is based on the Highest Principle of GOD (1 John 4:8)

Yes, I agree that 'God' being infinite includes infinite knowledge. - We can debate and speculate how much of this knowledge is unconditional or conditional as it is related within the skein of space and time, whereby it becomes relative - all perception within space-time is subject to relativity, hence variation, measurability, difference, complexity.

... Yet utterly fluid and uniquely responsive to our choices, by God's perfect design is rarely accepted by the majority. People don't like the idea that everything is designed to allow individuality and free will because it sets a level playing field and brings responsibility for our actions and consequences full circle back to us. People tend to desire God to be a linear thinker, and deny that He is an ABSTRACT ARTIST OF LOVE with a MAGICAL PAINT BRUSH that bears perfect FREE WILL and CREATIVE OPPORTUNITY. The MIND of GOD is beyond any super computer we could ever create! God can see multi-dimensional possibilities of every possible outcome of every possible sub-atomic shift, but in my opinion... He has designed matters in a way that lets our cosmic marbles roll around as we set them into motion, one direction or the other and allows matters to unfold uniquely before Him that is best described as a FATHER and MOTHER watching their children grow up, second by second.

Indeed, God is the Infinite Father and Mother of all Creation, all potentiality, possibility, and probability, - in this wonderful cosmic Matrix....all springs into being....whatever can or will be....as modified, conditioned or determined by those minds and wills that have any power to affect or influence consequence and outcomes. All that is subject to change or conditioning may be changed or conditioned. - hence all destinies within such a context are being determined.

This is a philosophical, Theosophical, Theological, Pan-theological, and pretty much any sociological discussion topic that has plagued mankind since inception. I look forward to reading your findings and summations.

I'm drawing from a couple cosmic dispensations at the moment given in the 20th century which is more than enough food for thought for centuries on out, and other resources of course, religious texts, scriptures, spirit teachings, etc. Then the direct intuition of the Spirit of God within and without, one's conscience, and every faculty of intelligence available, of course. We must draw from The All, The Infinite One Itself. This One is All....and more.....since infinity has no beginning or end.

Plato is a highly marginalized reference in the Christian community. I wonder if people realize that much of what Paul worded and Jesus worded tied to some of the deepest ideas of Plato? (Acts 11:26) is where the actual word "Christian" is first seen. Perhaps the portions of the Bible that precede this should be discounted? After all... Even Jesus didn't carry the label "Christian". People forget this (Acts 17:23)

As noted before 'Christian' was a later invented term I transcend labels and therefore do not apply it here. Greek philosophers have given us much wisdom and great treasury on metaphysics,...so have Vedic philosophers,....God inspires all souls since all souls belong to Him. There is no outside of infinity.....it is the womb of all. Hence knowledge is universal, transversal, omniversal

Infinity includes all space and time. So infinity certainly knows all potentials, possibilities and probabilities. It's knowledge is both absolute and relative since it includes all. Our musings, viewpoints and perspectives are conditioned by this or that...and are ever subject to change. You can't put Spirit in a box. In Creation.....all is ever evolving, engaging, expanding, transforming....in 'process'. Relativity includes all space-time potentials, difference, tensions and relationships....the karmic interplay never ends....until there is no more movement or action engaging in any cause/effect association or consequence.

In the meantime.....all is relative

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Iron sharpens iron. Faithful are the wounds of a friend. We both desire to be biblical. There can be no harm between us, only understanding. On this, attack the premise, we don't wrestle with flesh and blood between us, but principality.

As far as the OV/Reformed emphasis, it has always been this way. The Open View seeks the relationship of God with man as its focus. They are clear that they believe the omnis do not in fact exist but that we are invaded with Greek philosophy.

Regarding freewill, yes, I'd like to see those scriptures. I don't believe our freewill is at all a gift of God, but rather a direct result of the Fall. "Man has now become like us..."

.

I will always ask you the same. In the end... John 5:39 and Ephesians 2:8f are all we need... so... your challenging counter strikes always bless me.

I will take the time to re-respond tomorrow. I will do my best to speak in Love, and if I come off like a son of thunder... bring the thunder back however you desire. I am in full agreement with you that iron forever sharpens iron.

Wounds of friend forever! Amen!

All Christian Love and Gratitude,

-Evil.Eye.<(I)>

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Yes, I agree that 'God' being infinite includes infinite knowledge. - We can debate and speculate how much of this knowledge is unconditional or conditional as it is related within the skein of space and time, whereby it becomes relative - all perception within space-time is subject to relativity, hence variation, measurability, difference, complexity.



Indeed, God is the Infinite Father and Mother of all Creation, all potentiality, possibility, and probability, - in this wonderful cosmic Matrix....all springs into being....whatever can or will be....as modified, conditioned or determined by those minds and wills that have any power to affect or influence consequence and outcomes. All that is subject to change or conditioning may be changed or conditioned. - hence all destinies within such a context are being determined.




I'm drawing from a couple cosmic dispensations at the moment given in the 20th century which is more than enough food for thought for centuries on out, and other resources of course, religious texts, scriptures, spirit teachings, etc. Then the direct intuition of the Spirit of God within and without, one's conscience, and every faculty of intelligence available, of course. We must draw from The All, The Infinite One Itself. This One is All....and more.....since infinity has no beginning or end.



As noted before 'Christian' was a later invented term I transcend labels and therefore do not apply it here. Greek philosophers have given us much wisdom and great treasury on metaphysics,...so have Vedic philosophers,....God inspires all souls since all souls belong to Him. There is no outside of infinity.....it is the womb of all. Hence knowledge is universal, transversal, omniversal

Infinity includes all space and time. So infinity certainly knows all potentials, possibilities and probabilities. It's knowledge is both absolute and relative since it includes all. Our musings, viewpoints and perspectives are conditioned by this or that...and are ever subject to change. You can't put Spirit in a box. In Creation.....all is ever evolving, engaging, expanding, transforming....in 'process'. Relativity includes all space-time potentials, difference, tensions and relationships....the karmic interplay never ends....until there is no more movement or action engaging in any cause/effect association or consequence.

In the meantime.....all is relative

You know my one grinning addition... I do not impose on you... but you know me.... Every Knee shall Bow and Every Tongue will confess the name of the SPIRIT that is Infinity. That Spirit that is the un-caused cause. There will be a bunch of HOLY, HOLY, HOLY!!!!!

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

It was your use of the term "unbelievers" which implies a different kind of judgement.

Notice what Paul says here 1 Cor. 5:13KJV So, you need to look a bit deeper concerning the verses you've offered.

To judge is simply to examine the facts and come to a conclusion, or it can mean to govern or rule. We certainly won't be judging unbelievers as lost....we can judge them, now, as wrong (and that's discernment).

I think Jamie is talking about our assistance of Israel. I could be wrong... but I'm pretty sure.

The part where God says... (Joel 3:2) this ties into... (Rv. 19 and Ps. 18)

I don't want to say too much... but I'm thinking this is the case and a strong peering into the fate of those that challenge Israel.

Some Christians are just going to be surprised where we go first, with Him...

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

It was your use of the term "unbelievers" which implies a different kind of judgement.

Notice what Paul says here 1 Cor. 5:13KJV So, you need to look a bit deeper concerning the verses you've offered.

To judge is simply to examine the facts and come to a conclusion, or it can mean to govern or rule. We certainly won't be judging unbelievers as lost....we can judge them, now, as wrong (and that's discernment).

This is a solid point! I would like to see Jamie's response to this. Good questions!

 

[Evil.Eye.<(I)>]

Yes, I agree that 'God' being infinite includes infinite knowledge. - We can debate and speculate how much of this knowledge is unconditional or conditional as it is related within the skein of space and time, whereby it becomes relative - all perception within space-time is subject to relativity, hence variation, measurability, difference, complexity.



Indeed, God is the Infinite Father and Mother of all Creation, all potentiality, possibility, and probability, - in this wonderful cosmic Matrix....all springs into being....whatever can or will be....as modified, conditioned or determined by those minds and wills that have any power to affect or influence consequence and outcomes. All that is subject to change or conditioning may be changed or conditioned. - hence all destinies within such a context are being determined.




I'm drawing from a couple cosmic dispensations at the moment given in the 20th century which is more than enough food for thought for centuries on out, and other resources of course, religious texts, scriptures, spirit teachings, etc. Then the direct intuition of the Spirit of God within and without, one's conscience, and every faculty of intelligence available, of course. We must draw from The All, The Infinite One Itself. This One is All....and more.....since infinity has no beginning or end.



As noted before 'Christian' was a later invented term I transcend labels and therefore do not apply it here. Greek philosophers have given us much wisdom and great treasury on metaphysics,...so have Vedic philosophers,....God inspires all souls since all souls belong to Him. There is no outside of infinity.....it is the womb of all. Hence knowledge is universal, transversal, omniversal

Infinity includes all space and time. So infinity certainly knows all potentials, possibilities and probabilities. It's knowledge is both absolute and relative since it includes all. Our musings, viewpoints and perspectives are conditioned by this or that...and are ever subject to change. You can't put Spirit in a box. In Creation.....all is ever evolving, engaging, expanding, transforming....in 'process'. Relativity includes all space-time potentials, difference, tensions and relationships....the karmic interplay never ends....until there is no more movement or action engaging in any cause/effect association or consequence.

In the meantime.....all is relative

Re bumping because the content is very positive to discussion stimulation!

 

[glorydaz]

Regarding freewill, yes, I'd like to see those scriptures. I don't believe our freewill is at all a gift of God, but rather a direct result of the Fall. "Man has now become like us..."

But, Lon, Adam was free to choose from the beginning.

Have you ever considered whether God was making a point by repeating the serpent's claim?

ie. knowing the effects of good and evil.

Gen. 3:4-5KJV And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.​

The original sin was the pride of life (with the lust of the flesh and eyes).

I think God alludes to it other places....like here. The Judges of Israel had the same problem.

Psalm 82:6-7KJV I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.​

As did the pharisees in John 10:34:KJV

 

[Lon]

But, Lon, Adam was free to choose from the beginning.

Have you ever considered whether God was making a point by repeating the serpent's claim?

ie. knowing the effects of good and evil.

Gen. 3:4-5KJV And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.​

The original sin was the pride of life (with the lust of the flesh and eyes).

I think God alludes to it other places....like here. The Judges of Israel had the same problem.

Psalm 82:6-7KJV I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.​

As did the pharisees in John 10:34:KJV

Well worth the second glance. There is something in the original intent that is good. "Seeing what Adam would name them" while I don't think it was new to God, I think there was something within the creation that was designed for it. Right when I finish a software program, I have to run it to see if it does what I designed it to accomplish. I'm not much of a programmer, but that moment was always expectant, then satisfying.

Long of the short? You may be on to something and I'm intrigued to see where this thread might go along those lines. That and a thank you for something to chew on. Rats! I need some Jack Link's now! Where are my car keys!

 

[jamie]

To judge is simply to examine the facts and come to a conclusion, or it can mean to govern or rule. We certainly won't be judging unbelievers as lost....we can judge them, now, as wrong (and that's discernment).

Jesus said unbelievers will be judged by his word at the Last Day.

We will need to teach them Jesus' word before they can be judged by it.

At this time Jesus is not judging the world and neither are we.