Originally posted by JanowJ
In other words, the evolutionist can't prove it, but they believe it. The fact that you can't prove that matter can create itself makes evolution a belief system, not a science.
Can you PROVE that matter always existed? If you can do that, I'd say you have a great chance at the prize. The truth is, though, that you can't do that.
The assumption that matter is infinite and eternal is reasoned.
I provided for myself the argumentation why that has to be the case. You can follow that proof
here
Actuallly, the joke is the evolution theory. Not his offer. You even admitted that you can't provide proof and that it's impossible to provide proof. Yet, you call this science. Funny.
It is the creationists that want to make fun of science, and misrepresent it, and then state: see that can't possible work, therefore God must have done it.
Let me state it more clearly. Something that didn't happen or that can't possible happen, one can not proof.
Matter is that what is primary to the world. Matter being primary and objective means that
matter it is not dependend on something else.
In particular
matter is not dependend on consciousness or spirit since those denote secondary and subjective entities.
I can not with my mind and just by thinking cause some physical change in matter. I can perhaps direct through my muscles at will some indirect changes. But then I am already using some material forms (my hand or feet). So to me it is impossible that someting consciousness or spiritual alone can cause anything material, let alone create all of matter. It is just not possible.
Besides of that the notion of God as the creator in my mind misunderstand the fact that matter itself is uncreatble and indestructable. Why create a world that resides on itself, which does not have a begin or end, and neither needs a creator to account for it's existence. You can only posit the necesity for a creator of some sorts, at the basis of misunderstanding or misinterpretations of the material world itself.
The understanding of materialism about the world is that matter is the primary stuff or substance of the world that is not dependend on anything. Matter contains within itself it's own causes for existence. Matter is also primary in the sense that neither it can fail to exist at any given time. Without matter, there would be nothing. Not even space or time. But a mere nothing can't possible account for an existing world, since from nothing comes nothing. The fact that matter exists now, therefore must mean that matter existed always.
The argument I presented in the link above, works by
not assuming anything at all and not residing on
any knowledge we might have about the world , except for the most trivial things that we can know and reason from there about what the world in fact is and how and why it exist.
It does not need to assume at any point the need for a creator, it just states that what is needed is the concept of matter as something primary and objective to the world, which existed always.
So that means, matter was there all the time, and did not get created. What happens though is that matter changes shape, and form
all the time. So it does not mean that the current form of matter was there all the time, but that matter in some form or another was there all the time.
