noguru
Well-known member
Have you ever heard of the "placebo effect"?
Atheists, do you hope you're right?
- Thread starter serpentdove
- Start date
Have you ever heard of the "placebo effect"?
noguru
Well-known member
I am certain that you will not get a straight answer for this from snakebird. She is a slippery character.
alwight
New member
Then you are perhaps referring to a metaphorical "heart", an emotional response in the brain perhaps rather than the organ for pumping blood.
What we would need to sort out however is whether there is any genuine reaction to an outside supernatural stimulus or is it perhaps just a self induced euphoria, or even a chemical imbalance?
It doesn't seem as though we can jointly test this against something more tangible, ...just your own particular emotional response to a particular religious belief.
A response that I tend to believe you would have had, had you been raised within a different religious culture, except you would be now preaching a rather different doctrine.
Maybe for some people simply proselytising gives them an emotional booster, and if the subjects could just help you to whip up the feeling even more who knows what might happen?
According to G.John 11:25 Jesus also said this (as written above the entrance to my local church graveyard): "Ego sum resurrectio et vita""I am the resurrection and the life".
People are afraid of death, which is why imo people will often cling to such words and have emotional responses to them. Clearly the four anonymous authors of the gospels rather knew which strings to pull to get the required emotional response?
lain:Heck, the Buddha was born walking, talking and preaching.
You have to admit that as far as religious metaphors go, that is a pretty cool one!
The theology of bodily resurrection would seem to me to fit with this.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
You identify as a Christian. You have problems with my experiences with Jesus. Why won't you tell us yours?
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Sounds like a kick in the teeth for every one who has managed to turn themselves around without the help of your "He", not to mention those who claim their own, mutually exclusive "He" did it for them. Funny that you never acknowledge this.
Without evidence your so called "testimony" is useless. Sorry but truth isn't learned via bald assertion in my world.
The dragon in my garage wishes you the same
Witness testimony is evidence.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Then you are perhaps referring to a metaphorical "heart", an emotional response in the brain perhaps rather than the organ for pumping blood.
What we would need to sort out however is whether there is any genuine reaction to an outside supernatural stimulus or is it perhaps just a self induced euphoria, or even a chemical imbalance?
It doesn't seem as though we can jointly test this against something more tangible, ...just your own particular emotional response to a particular religious belief.
A response that I tend to believe you would have had, had you been raised within a different religious culture, except you would be now preaching a rather different doctrine.
Maybe for some people simply proselytising gives them an emotional booster, and if the subjects could just help you to whip up the feeling even more who knows what might happen?
According to G.John 11:25 Jesus also said this (as written above the entrance to my local church graveyard): "Ego sum resurrectio et vita""I am the resurrection and the life".
People are afraid of death, which is why imo people will often cling to such words and have emotional responses to them. Clearly the four anonymous authors of the gospels rather knew which strings to pull to get the required emotional response?
I considered myself a Christian my whole life and held to the Bibles words the whole time. It wasn't until I personally trusted Jesus and experienced His presence that my life changed.
noguru
Well-known member
:rotfl:
I have problems with what? I think you are misrepresenting me as a defensive mechanism.
I asked you "If you have ever heard of the placebo effect? I don't think that means I have a problem. Can you answer?
Hedshaker
New member
We have no way of ascertaining if your testimony true, even if you think it is. And the same goes for those who testify for a competing religion.
In short, your claims, and similar claims by others are none falsifiable, so useless as evidence.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Yes I have heard of it. My conclusion has been by the totality of your comments. Maybe I've misunderstood. I am sorry if I have.
I expected Jesus to help me for a long time before I trusted Him and felt His loving, indescribsle, freeing presence. The expectation wasn't met until I trusted Him and His words.
What has your experience with Him been?
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Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Just as a lone witness in any situation that can not corroberated by other evidence such as other witnesses can not be proven. And such with each witness experiencing the same spiritual experience of heart transformation by the presence of Jesus the certainty becomes much likely. From people filled with hate to filled with love. Such as the former Slave trader turned minister John Newton the writer of 'Amazing Grace'.
noguru
Well-known member
My experience has been of the educational variety, is intricate nuanced and perhaps more complex than most peoples. I can tell you this. I did not have to sign on to the politically unified stance of "orthodox" religion to be a witness. In fact I had to leave those ranks to find contentment.
I have also considered the "placebo effect" and I can honestly say I probably would not know the difference. But there is absolutely nothing I can do about that.
noguru
Well-known member
I have never been a hateful person, even through my 17 years of agnosticism. I have a very empathetic nature towards others even when things are not going so well for me. But as a younger agnostic I did feel a certain amount of futility. Nowadays I can switch back and forth from a theistic perspective and an agnostic perspective and still not lose sight of what is important. Theism might have just been a tool for me to reach that, but again it is what it is. Keep in mind I have studied many religions as well.
How the 5 major religions spread.
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You know he continued as a slaver well after his conversion, right?
Hedshaker
New member
The problem with this is it doesn't explain those many people who say the same, but Attribute it to a different religion that has nothing to do with Christianity or Jesus. Nor does it explain how people with no religion at all can make big changes for the better, without any supernatural intervention.
This has been put to you many times now yet you choose not to address it. Until you do, with a plausible explanation, your point above remains moot. Whether you accept it or not the existence of the Christian God has not been established. Preaching warm and fuzzies proves nothing.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
www.abolition.e2bn.org gives a concise synopsis of His history. You are correct the change in Him did take time.
Conversion is the start of the transforming work of the Holy Spirit in a believer's life. Faith and trust in Christ is growing entity if it is genuine. Or it may just be a hypocritical farce.
Capital "H"? Is Newton a deity now or something?:AMR:
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Thank you for sharing. I can tell it is heartfelt and honest.
I hope that you can tell that I am too.
I can honestly say Orthodox Christianity seemed like nothing but mumbo jumbo as I studied Catholic Catechism and Lutheran Confirmation classes as a youth. It wasn't until futility and despair of life along with the realization that God was always trying to communicate with His small voice in my heart and He convinced me to take a step of
Trust and when I did His presence came upon me and was indescribably good.
Since then I have found his word and Spirit have been guiding me into truth.