What people? Please be specific.Freak said:
ARGH!!! Calvinism makes me furious!!!
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
You haven't even established that God caused all of the illnesses etc, in the Bible yet! If I go trying to prove what you are asking me to prove I would be tacitly conceding that you've gotten far enough to warrant my having to do so. Sorry, Z Man! That's a very sly tactic but I've been doing this too long to fall for it.Z Man said:
Same answer as above. You have not even established that God caused all the "bad" things that happened in the Bible. Until you do, other sources are not needed.
That depends on what sort of truth you are looking for. The Bible is superlative and unsurpassable for matters of theology but not so great for meteorology, biology or physics. The Bible is not a weather text book or a biology text book or a physics text book or any other such thing. Making sweeping statements about how the weather works and how illnesses are caused and other such things based entirely on an inductive inference from Biblical texts is dubious at best. You need much more than that.
Further, making dogmatic statements based on inductive reasoning is placing you on thin ice from the start. Inductive reasoning is not intended for the purpose of coming to such dogmatic conclusions (generally speaking, of course). That's not to say that we cannot know anything based on inductive reasoning, in fact we can know quite a lot, but the sort of things you are trying to establish cannot be established in this manner.
Further still, you are still trying to make an argument that is fallacious. Remember the other fallacy I mentioned called "Dicto Simpliciter"? It is a fallacy that is committed when one argues that what is true in general is true universally and without qualification. It's also known as an "Accident" fallacy. Look it up, you'll see that I'm right.
And there is yet another fallacy which you might be committing here known as a "False Cause Fallacy". That happens when one infers that because one event follows another, the first event caused the second. That one you might or might not be committing. I can't say for sure because I have not read every post that you've written trying to establish this idea of yours but if you aren't committing it here, you're awfully close to it!
I bring up all these fallacies not simply to refute you argument but to point out something that you should take seriously to heart. You and I and the rest of those posting on this thread are not the only one's who read these posts. You have really no idea what sort of impact your words may be having. Christians and non-Christians alike read and pay some attention to the things we say on this forum and when you commit such blatant logical fallacies people notice. Do yourself a favor and read a book on logic. You wouldn't believe how much improved your debate skills will become if all you do is get only slightly familiar with what is actually meant by the phrase "sound reason". Your theology will be the better for it, our debates will be more productive and TOL will benefit as well! It's so much more fun to debate someone who actually has some real debate skills, no matter which side your on.
Of course, your welcome to ignore that advice but in case you're interested, I recommend the following Christian website. It has a whole logic course available for free online...
THE LOGIC LAB
Resting in Him,
Clete
Nobody has ever claimed that God doesn't sometimes kill the wicked. Yet you asserted that God is a murderer.Freak said:
YES or NO, do you stand by that assertion?
Is God a murderer?
You need to be more specific.Freak said:
What people?
Freak
New member
Knight, I answered your question awhile back...
"And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem."
Where did I say, "God is a murderer."
I have merely stated He kills!
Not in the sense you describe a murderer-NO!Knight said:
"And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem."
Where did I say, "God is a murderer."
I have merely stated He kills!
Freak
New member
So,
"Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech.
God used evil, in this case an evil spirit that knows nothing but evil for His purposes.
Knight: did God use something evil for His purposes? Yes or no?
"Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech.
God used evil, in this case an evil spirit that knows nothing but evil for His purposes.
Knight: did God use something evil for His purposes? Yes or no?
sentientsynth
New member
If you can't beat them, suppress them.Knight said:
What a spineless coward.
You are a liar and a blasphemer!Freak said:
Read your own words...
Freak said:
You are OK with a "Christian" calling God a murderer????sentientsynth said:
We have a rule at TOL....
3. Thou SHALL NOT be intentionally blasphemous
If people say things like God is a fag, or God is evil or God is a murderer to me that's just way over the top. It's too offensive. Now, you are free to start your own website and you can invite people to say whatever they wish.
Freak
New member
Come on Knight...Knight said:
I have stated I do NOT believe God is a murderer in the sense you are thinking. I believe murder can be defined as to kill. God is a murderer not in the sense you are thinking but in the sense that He kills those whom deserve judgement.
God brought forth death to the People of Shecham, re-read Judges 9.
Freak can't even bring himself to admit he was wrong and state that God IS NOT a murderer! :nono:Freak said:
Why not just say "no". Why not just say... "I was wrong, God isn't a murderer."?
But did God murder in Judges 9?Freak said:
Freak
New member
Knight, I just stated just a few posts ago:Knight said:
I have stated I do NOT believe God is a murderer in the sense you are thinking. I believe murder can be defined as to kill. God is a murderer not in the sense you are thinking but in the sense that He kills those whom deserve judgement.
:duh:Freak said:
But does God murder??????
Answer the question Freak.
sentientsynth
New member
Freak,
Don't worry. Anyone who took the time to read and actually comprehend what you were communicating understood.
People like Knight are intentionally obtuse. Just check out the Calvinism one on one. Utter. Stupidity.
SS
If Freak does not retract his statement, and see the error, and idiocy, of relying on that definition of murder, and Knight doesn't ban him, then Knight would be a spineless coward. I already know someone who thinks Knight is a coward for not banning someone else...sentientsynth said:
Freak
New member
Some dictionaries define murder as to kill! Kill=murder!Knight said:
No, I do not believe God unlawfully kills humans (as some define murder).
But I do believe God murders (kills as defined in some dictionaries) people whom deserve divine judgement.
So...
"Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech.
God used evil, in this case an evil spirit that knows nothing but evil for His purposes.
Knight: did God use something evil for His purposes? Yes or no?