Are people born in Christ or born in sin?

[jsanford108]

You misunderstood my post. Again, people are born in Christ, instead of born in sin. What is it that you don't understand with my position?

I believe I do understand your position. But if you disagree, please explain it to me.

If you need a question, which would demonstrate your position, if answered clearly, I can provide it: How and when is a person "born in Christ?"
When a child is born, are they born with original sin?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[jamie]

I meant AD. My fault.

So you believe Jesus was entombed Friday night and Saturday night?

 

[jamie]

You misunderstood my post. Again, people are born in Christ, instead of born in sin. What is it that you don't understand with my position?

Jesus is the Christ and as a human man he said that like us he could do nothing of himself.

And yet he was saved from death never to die again.

 

[Samie]

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

End of debate.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12

Oh, really? Where's the verse that says people are born in sin?

 

[jamie]

God did not create sinful nature, yes.

Who did?

Paul said, "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God for it does not submit to God's law, indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God." (Romans 8:7-8 ESV)

Did Adam and Eve have their mind on their flesh or on their spirit?

"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate and she also gave some to her husband who was with her and he ate." (Genesis 3:6 ESV)

 

[Samie]

I believe I do understand your position. But if you disagree, please explain it to me.

If you need a question, which would demonstrate your position, if answered clearly, I can provide it: How and when is a person "born in Christ?"

Being the loving Father that He is, God through Christ saved His child Adam from drowning in sin the same day he fell into it, by implementing the plan of salvation He devised before the beginning of time, an act that cost the Father His only begotten Son - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. With Adam in Christ, all His descendants are born in Christ. All because of God's grace.

When a child is born, are they born with original sin?

No.

 

[jamie]

Oh, really? Where's the verse that says people are born in sin?

They are not born IN sin, they are born TO sin.

And so Christ came to redeem them and to restore their dominion.

 

[jsanford108]

So you believe Jesus was entombed Friday night and Saturday night?

Yes.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[jamie]

Yes.

What about Thursday night?

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12:40)

What happened to the other night? We're missing one.

 

[Bright Raven]

Psalm 51:5New International Version (NIV)

5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

 

[Samie]

Psalm 51:5New International Version (NIV)

5 Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

I have already addressed that verse in the KJV in the OP.

Even if we use the NIV, still it doesn't prove people are born in sin. God also sent Jesus to earth in the likeness of sinful man, yet He was not born in sin.

NIV Romans 8:3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man

 

[God's Truth]

I have already addressed that verse in the KJV in the OP.

Even if we use the NIV, still it doesn't prove people are born in sin. God also sent Jesus to earth in the likeness of sinful man, yet He was not born in sin.

NIV Romans 8:3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man

Samie, we are born in sin is about not knowing God until we are taught. We cannot be taught until after we are born, so yes we are born in sin. It is just that false denominations use the born in sin scripture to defend their false doctrines.

We are born in sin means we have to come to know God by being taught about Him, the truth about Him. We have to be taught about Him, and then given His Holy Spirit, who is God Himself.

 

[Samie]

Samie, we are born in sin is about not knowing God until we are taught. We cannot be taught until after we are born, so yes we are born in sin. It is just that false denominations use the born in sin scripture to defend their false doctrines.

We are born in sin means we have to come to know God by being taught about Him, the truth about Him. We have to be taught about Him, and then given His Holy Spirit, who is God Himself.

For me, to be born in sin, is to be born NOT in Christ, because sin separates man from God. And to be born NOT in Christ is to be born lost. This is against the teaching of Jesus Christ in the parables of the lost sheep, lost coin, and lost son.

Before the sheep got lost, it was in the sheepfold under the care of its shepherd.
Before the coin was lost, it was with its owner.
Before the son went lost, he was at home with his father.

So with us. We were born NOT lost. But we all sinned. That is why we are admonished to repent. Luke 13:3, 5.

 

[God's Truth]

For me, to be born in sin, is to be born NOT in Christ, because sin separates man from God. And to be born NOT in Christ is to be born lost. This is against the teaching of Jesus Christ in the parables of the lost sheep, lost coin, and lost son.

Before the sheep got lost, it was in the sheepfold under the care of its shepherd.
Before the coin was lost, it was with its owner.
Before the son went lost, he was at home with his father.

So with us. We were born NOT lost. But we all sinned. That is why we are admonished to repent. Luke 13:3, 5.

I think that you are confused about when Jesus came?

There were the Jews who were called the children of God.

They had to do certain works themselves, just to clean themselves and make themselves right and clean and justified, just to go to the temple to worship God, for that is where God's Spirit was.

However, God did not like it that all Jews could do that and be called the children of God.

God did not like it that a Jew could sin, give a sin offering, and not really be sorry for their sins.

God said He was going to make a New Covenant.

The old covenant was based on those ceremonial works; the old law was NOT based on faith.

When Jesus came to earth, God cut off all the Jews who did not ALREADY belong to Him by faith.

Those Jews who did not ALREADY belong to God by faith, God cut them off and bound them over to the same place as the disobedient Gentiles.

The Jews who did belong to God by faith, they are called the lost sheep of Israel.

Jesus came first for them, for they already belonged to God by faith.

They still had to obey God though, and that is why they had to repent of their sins before Jesus would come to them.

That is why they were baptized by John the baptizer.

Jesus said they were God's and that God gave them to him.

Jesus also said that when he is crucified, then all can come to him to be saved; that means the Jews who were cut off and hardened could come to him to be saved AFTER he was crucified.

Anyone can become a sheep, if they change and do what Jesus says to be saved.

 

[Bright Raven]

I have already addressed that verse in the KJV in the OP.

Even if we use the NIV, still it doesn't prove people are born in sin. God also sent Jesus to earth in the likeness of sinful man, yet He was not born in sin.

NIV Romans 8:3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man

Heres the whole of it. If you are not born in sin why do you need a Savior? But we are born in sin.

 

[nikolai_42]

The catch phrase is "go astray". To "go astray" implies that one starts out "not astray". Just like in Jesus' parables of the lost sheep, lost coin, and lost son. see Luke 15:1 -24.

Before the sheep got lost, it was with its shepherd in the sheepfold.
Before the coin was lost, it was with its owner.
Before the son went lost, he was at home with his father.

So with us. We start out in life NOT lost. And to be NOT lost is to be In Christ. But we all sinned. That's why are enjoined to repent (Luke 13:3, 5).

Going astray means deviation from a right standard. It need not imply that the one in question ever held to that standard. And if you look at the wording, they go astray from the womb. In other words, they are born sinners.

 

[jamie]

In other words, they are born sinners.

What are the sins of a newborn baby?

Newborns are not believers so they are not in Christ.

Newborns are not unbelievers since they have not rejected Christ.

 

[jsanford108]

Being the loving Father that He is, God through Christ saved His child Adam from drowning in sin the same day he fell into it, by implementing the plan of salvation He devised before the beginning of time, an act that cost the Father His only begotten Son - the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. With Adam in Christ, all His descendants are born in Christ. All because of God's grace.
No.

So verses such as those from Exodus, Deuteronomy, prophetical books, Psalms, Gospels, Etc are all just wrong?

People being born with sin is just, what? False musings of ancient writers? Then, the idea of the Scripture being divinely inspired would have to be thrown out, since they, being inspired by God, are now disproven.

When one begins to deny what is plainly written, it creates a slippery slope of being able to discern fact from falsehood.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[jsanford108]

What about Thursday night?

"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." (Matthew 12:40)

What happened to the other night? We're missing one.

What day did Christ rise? The third day, or the fourth?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[jamie]

What day did Christ rise? The third day, or the fourth?

Jesus rose on the first day of the week, Sunday.

He was in the tomb for three days and three nights, 72 hours.