ARCHIVE: Is it ever OK for a Christian to hate someone?

[Aimiel]

So, let me try and understand what your saying, all of the 33, 000, forms of christianity are wrong to some extent, some more so then others. Why not just have it so that every one gets the same message and understands everything about it?

Where's the fun in that? He loves diversity. That's why He made so many different forms of it.

If god is god, and the holy spirit is god, then the holy spirit is capable of making the message perfect, or near perfect for us mortals. And if the second coming can only happen after the world is made gods foot stool, then wouldnt it stand to reason that god would just (want) every one to get the same message and work together to make the world christian?

It is perfect, it is in our (mis) interpretation of It that the fault lies. If we understood the reason that He made His Word a Mystery, it wouldn't be a mystery anymore, would it? That will happen when time comes to an end:

And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[SOTK]

Hate (in and of itself) is morally neutral.

There are righteous forms of hatred and there are unrighteous forms of hatred.

Righteous hatred...
Psalms 139:22 I hate them with perfect hatred; I count them my enemies.

Unrighteous hatred...
Leviticus 19:17 You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him.

I agree with this. :up: I used to fall into the "we have to love everyone camp" but this clearly is not Biblical. Yes, we can righteously hate somebody with perfect hatred. Terrorists come to mind.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Yes, we can righteously hate somebody with perfect hatred. Terrorists come to mind.

BINGO! :up:

 

[God_Is_Truth]

Love and hate are not equal opposites.

You should love your enemy enough to hate him. Then and only then might he repent.

the problem with this is that it's the kindness of God that leads people to repentence, not the hatred of God.

Romans 2:4
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

the problem with this is that it's the kindness of God that leads people to repentence, not the hatred of God.

Romans 2:4
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

What wacky translation are you using?

Clearly you are misreading the context....

Romans 2:1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

The verse is stating that God's goodness is what points men towards what is right and what is wrong. This verse has nothing to do with God acting "kind" towards wicked sinners.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

GIT do yourself a favor and go buy a NKJV or KJV of God's word.

 

[God_Is_Truth]

What wacky translation are you using?

New American Standard Bibe (NASB). nothing "wacky" about it.

Clearly you are misreading the context....

Romans 2:1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

The verse is stating that God's goodness is what points men towards what is right and what is wrong. This verse has nothing to do with God acting "kind" towards wicked sinners.

nothing you've said here from the context gives me any reason to think it should be translated as "goodness" and not "kindness". the KJV and NKJV are not my favorite translations nor do i believe they are the most accurate. i find the NASB more credible, more literal and thus a better translation.

 

[TobiasKage]

It isn't like the essentials of the message are presented in 33,000 different ways.

Therefore your point is exaggerated and not accurate in this application.

Likewise...
There are millions of atheists and not a single two of them agree on everything therefore what?

I'm not sure I agree with you on this but hey, I could be wrong, its a great big world, on the same coin, you might be wrong as well, who knows for sure.

As to your point of the athiests, your right, we dont all agree, but then again, we arent trying to convert the world.

Lets play war for a second Knight, personaly, I'm a stratagist, I love it, the days of Napolionic war, the battles fought in the War for Southern Independance, I love stratagies. I cant get enough of it.

You have your army, christianity, I have my force, athiesm. Now, the way christianity is now, fractioned and devided, they stand as christians yes, but discount very large groups of christians because their dogma is slightly different. JVW's, Mormans, Unitarians, the list goes on. Now I have my force, the athiests, all we have to agree on is that your wrong, no dogma, no deep theology, just that your wrong. While athiests my not agree on everything, we do agree that your wrong, we stand as a closer nit group, a tighter unit. And on the same token christians for the most part do stand united, but, can you really get a catholic and a protestant to sit down and discuss theology with out it going to yelling? Or a calvinist and an Arminian.

See my point, athiests dont need to agree on every thing, just that your wrong. Hope that I made that clear enough, if not let me know, I'll work on it some more.

 

[SOTK]

GIT do yourself a favor and go buy a NKJV or KJV of God's word.

Those are my favorite! :up: It's weird but most at my church use the NIV. I wonder why? It's an "okay" translation but the NKJV seems more accurate to me.

 

[CRASH]

To Hate or not to Hate - That is the question!

To Hate or not to Hate - That is the question!

the problem with this is that it's the kindness of God that leads people to repentence, not the hatred of God.

Romans 2:4
Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

See Jude 20 - 23. (NKJV is what I use) There are different ways to reach people for Christ.

 

[TobiasKage]

What wacky translation are you using?

Clearly you are misreading the context....

Romans 2:1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance?

The verse is stating that God's goodness is what points men towards what is right and what is wrong. This verse has nothing to do with God acting "kind" towards wicked sinners.

See, this is what i'm talking about, you guys cant even agree on what bible to use.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

See, this is what i'm talking about, you guys cant even agree on what bible to use.

So what?

Do you agree with every Pagan?

And no, that question isn't rhetorical.

 

[death2impiety]

The KJV is the best because it was the first time the book was translated into english (unless I'm mistaken). The verbage is closest to the way it was originally intended.

I read your Atheist agreeability argument but it seems silly because all us Christians agree on the one same point "atheists are wrong."

So what now Napolean?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

athiests dont need to agree on every thing, just that your wrong. Hope that I made that clear enough, if not let me know, I'll work on it some more.

I think your dogma just ran over your karma.

 

[TobiasKage]

So what?

Do you agree with every Pagan?

And no, that question isn't rhetorical.

No, and I did point that out before that we all dont agree. My point is that its the devine word of your god, why wouldnt there be just one version, that every one can study? One text that every one can draw off of and get the same information. Why not? The Muslims have one book, the Jews have one book, the Mormans have their book, why not just have one translation?

 

[TobiasKage]

I think your dogma just ran over your karma.

Serious question, whats with the giant rat avatar? I've been racking my brain trying to figure it out. i'm not being sarcastic at all here, I just want to know whats up with the rat?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Serious question, whats with the giant rat avatar? I've been racking my brain trying to figure it out. i'm not being sarcastic at all here, I just want to know whats up with the rat?

That's rat fink and rat fink likes halloween.

 

[SOTK]

Serious question, whats with the giant rat avatar? I've been racking my brain trying to figure it out. i'm not being sarcastic at all here, I just want to know whats up with the rat?

I imagine it's part of a Halloween theme.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

No, and I did point that out before that we all dont agree. My point is that its the devine word of your god, why wouldnt there be just one version, that every one can study? One text that every one can draw off of and get the same information. Why not? The Muslims have one book, the Jews have one book, the Mormans have their book, why not just have one translation?

Uh dude... are you kidding?

You may not agree with me on things but you may want to know the facts a bit better.

There is only one Holy Bible.

The Koran and the Book of Mormon are not part of the Bible.

 

[death2impiety]

Love the sinner hate the sin.

The only way to do this is to hate the sin a person lives in. You are effectively hating the person out of your love for him/her.

Love the sinner [by] hat[ing] [his/her willingness to live in] sin.

I'm curious how the "love is not hate" side of this argument thinks we should deal with murderers, rapists and the like. If we know our neighbor is a homosexual freak who seduces and eats 13 year old boys should we walk over with a freshly baked pie and discuss his sin? "Oh Jeffery, thats not right. Please stop eating the neighborhood children, my son has no one left to play with..."