That isn't true and you know it.Lighthouse said:
Abortion is legal in this country. There is no law gainst it. Can you really argue it isn't criminal?
ARCHIVE: Free From Sin - 1 John
- Thread starter Sozo
- Start date
Abortion is legal in this country. There is no law gainst it. Can you really argue it isn't criminal?
elected4ever
New member
Knight, you and I live by a deferent law than does the world. I am going to have to go with Lighthouse on this one. Like you and lighthouse i believe we should work to get the laws to reflect the higher standard but at the moment it is not criminal activity. A standard that opposes God? yes. A standard that is wrong? yes. Should Christians endorse and defend the standard? No. Should Christians actively oppose the standard and remind the world of God's righteous standard? yes. But is it presently criminal in the US? NoKnight said:
Lighthouse and e4e...elected4ever said:
All the things that are sinful prior to becoming a Christian like rape, murder, adultery etc. are bad right?
And they are still bad and harmful if done as a Christian right?
So what does it benefit us arguing that they are not sinful? The best you could do (which Sozo already acknowledged) is change the name of the "bad thing" from "sin" to something else.
Where is the pay-off? All of this is an unnecessary distraction with little to no benefit for the gospel.
It's far better to argue to the lost that in Christ all of our sin is forgiven instead of arguing in Christ we don't call adultery a sin, we call it adultery. :hammer:
elected4ever
New member
I never said that it was not sin. I never read where lighthouse said that it was not sin. I have never read where SOZO said that it was not sin. Just because something is deemed legal in the world's system and not a criminal activity does not mean that it is not sin.Knight said:
The world system is dead to God and does not know God and being dead, how can the world be expected to endorse God's standard. We are in the world and not of the world. This world is a lawless place and endorses its own set of values. That is why good morals never saved anyone and good morals are not evidence of being in Christ. I act righteous because I have been made righteous. I am righteous because I have been given the nature of God through His imparting to me off His seed. This is not metaphor or symbolism but a fact of life. I have received life from the dead! Not a fact according to the world but a fact according to God. I cannot deny my own Father and my Father said that he will not deny me.
Sozo... and Lighthouse believe that a Christian cannot sin. Period.elected4ever said:
They would say that if a Christian commits adultery or murder or rape they did NOT sin.
That is the issue of this thread.
Do you agree with them?
elected4ever
New member
Yes, it is the only Biblical stance.. I will change my mind though just as soon as you can prove that the dead can sin, and that Jesus sins and that the seed I received when i was born again of the Father is corrupt seed. Just tell me how a child of God can be opposed to God? Just tell me how a person who is righteous is a sinner. I believe God, not popular Christian dogma. There is no religion in the world that will send you to hell faster that the Christian religion. Most men are religious but most men are going to hell because of it.Knight said:
OK, so what do you call the things that Christians might do that would normally be called sins?elected4ever said:
Is there a broad term that describes behaviors like adultery, theft, murder, rape etc, that are performed by a Christian?
elected4ever
New member
Yes, actually it is two words. Being stupid. We are commanded to live honorable among men. We do that by honoring God. If men punish us for doing an evil act it brings no glory to God. If men punish us for doing righteously then God is our avenger. We are to suffer for righteousness sake and not for the evil. In this way we honor God. We honor God when we point out the evils of homosexuality and the death that it brings. We do not honor God if we do the very things that bring the wrath of God on this dead world. We have the righteous nature of God and do right because of our nature. We are the light in a dark world and the salt that is poured into the wound of sin. Light cannot be seen by the willfully blind but can be seen by the one searching for the light. If our light does not shin then how will those who search be able to see the way. If our salt has lost its savor then how can the salt perform the function for which it is intended. The healing of sin. We do because we are. Not to justify what or who we are. We are already justified.Knight said:
Ecumenicist
New member
Knight said:
All prayers on my behalf are welcome!
Why do you suppose God didn't inspire Paul to use similar terminology?elected4ever said:
Paul quotes Psalms 4:4 to make a point that letting anger get the best of us is sinful.
Ephesians 4:25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give place to the devil.
In Romans Paul could have said... blessed are the man whose stupid acts are covered and whose stupid acts are not imputed to him but he didn't. Instead he said...
Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”
In 1st Corinthians 6 Paul could have said.... "Every stupid act that a man does....." & "but he who commits sexual immorality does a stupid act against his own body" But he didn't, instead he said...
1Corinthians 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
Clearly Paul could have used different terminology had it been appropriate to do so.
elected4ever
New member
1 Corinthians 10:23 *¶All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
"all things are lawful" It is lawful for a Christian to do anything on plane earth after he is saved. Why because "all things" are now lawful to him.
"All things are not expedient" What does the word expedient mean? It can mean advantage, to be better for, bring together, be good, be profitable for. So if we use these differing words then we get a better understanding.
1. All things are not to my advantage.
2. All things do not make me better.
3. All things do not bring us together.
4. All things are not good.
5. All things are not profitable to me.
"all things edify not." What does the word edify mean the word edify means construct, figuratively to confirm, builder or build up, to embolden. Now let's use this word.
1. All things are not constructive.
2. All things do not confirm.
3. All things do not build up.
4. All things do not embolden
You put all of it together and the verse would sound something like this. Now remember this is my construct. You may have a different or even a better one.
( all things are lawful for me but all things are not profitable for me and are not good in my mission because they do not bring us together. They do not work to my advantage or make me better. All things are lawful for me but all things do not confirm and build up my purpose. They do not embolden me nor do they confirm my mission)
"all things are lawful" It is lawful for a Christian to do anything on plane earth after he is saved. Why because "all things" are now lawful to him.
"All things are not expedient" What does the word expedient mean? It can mean advantage, to be better for, bring together, be good, be profitable for. So if we use these differing words then we get a better understanding.
1. All things are not to my advantage.
2. All things do not make me better.
3. All things do not bring us together.
4. All things are not good.
5. All things are not profitable to me.
"all things edify not." What does the word edify mean the word edify means construct, figuratively to confirm, builder or build up, to embolden. Now let's use this word.
1. All things are not constructive.
2. All things do not confirm.
3. All things do not build up.
4. All things do not embolden
You put all of it together and the verse would sound something like this. Now remember this is my construct. You may have a different or even a better one.
( all things are lawful for me but all things are not profitable for me and are not good in my mission because they do not bring us together. They do not work to my advantage or make me better. All things are lawful for me but all things do not confirm and build up my purpose. They do not embolden me nor do they confirm my mission)
elected4ever
New member
Remember Knight that the word also means offend. Not oppose. Try useing the word offend or offence and see what it says.Knight said:
Every offence that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality offends his own body.
I didn't know that our fearless leader was also a :dunce:
And isn't that exactly my point???elected4ever said:
Since the word "sin" can be used in different ways it's silly to dogmatically attempt to make the word be used in ONLY ONE WAY which is what you, Sozo and Lighthouse are doing.
It's almost as if you are arguing my point for me. :dizzy:
There isn't a single respected Bible version that I am aware of that uses the word "offend" instead of "sin" in that verse.
Is every Bible version including the KJV and the NKJV in error?
And by the way.... the word in 1st Cor 6:18 is literally translated "sin".
hamartema; from 264; a sin:—sin (2), sins(2)
I don't disagree with any of that nor do I find it relevant to the discussion.elected4ever said:
elected4ever
New member
Ah, yes, tradition does play apart and in every translation I have ever read uses the word sin. Point well taken. Using the word sin when applied to a believer gives the wrong impression of what is being said and in my view weakens the real meaning of the word. We as Christians do not sin against our brother we offend them because they are weak and that is offensive behavior to God. It does not mean that we sin. Only sinners sin. There is not one sinner that is a child of god. They are all us to be sinners. God has given to them Of his seed and they cannot sin. (OPPOSE GOD) All sinners are children of the devil and no child of the devil has anything in God. All people who clam to be sinners and at the same time clam to be children of God do not know what they are talking about. This is nothing more than tradition and is an oxymoron.Knight said:
elected4ever
New member
be careful , your ignorants is showing.Knight said:
That's all well and good but I prefer to trust the Bible and God's word and how He phrased things. Your opinion is at odds with the Bible.elected4ever said:
:rotfl:my "ignorants"?elected4ever said:
Oh my... I think I just spit all over my computer monitor.
Knight said:
Go Knight Go...
Christians are saints, not sinners (I Corinthians), but this does not preclude the possibility of a Christian volitionally sinning, a temporary lapse that does not return one to the status of a godless sinner. If sin is a substance, I can see their objection to saying that a Christian does not sin. If sin involves disobedience/rebellion/selfishness/lawlessness/choice, then a Christian can commit adultery in the same way they did in a pre-conversion state or the way an unbeliever does. God's holiness and Law are not negated just because we are in Christ. There is a difference between will not sin (the normative Christian experience due to His power in us) and cannot sin (we are not robots...we should not sin, but if we do, we have an advocate...I Jn. 1:9; 2:1,2; Heb. 4:14-16).