ARCHIVE: Free From Sin - 1 John

Sozo

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Free from sin​

Key verses

"Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin."
John 8:34

"Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness."
Romans 6:16-18


1 John 1:1

"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life"

John confirms that Jesus was "from the beginning" and they were witnesses to his appearing. They heard Him, they saw Him, and they touched Him. He was very real, and not an illusion.

Jesus came in the flesh

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."
1 John 4:1-3​

For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.
2 John 1:7​

And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:7​

"See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
Luke 24:39​

For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh
Romans 8:3​

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 3:16​

Since then the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil; and might deliver those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives. For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the descendant of Abraham. Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Hebrews 2:14-17​

For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
1 Peter 3:18​

Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin
1 Peter 4:1​

1 John 1:2

"For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us"

The eternal life of God the Father was evident and proved to John through Christ, and John further proclaims this to those whom he is writing that they (those with John) were witnesses to this fact.

Jesus gives Life

In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
John 1:4​

For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
John 5:26​

"You search the Scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me, that you may have life."
John 5:39​

"For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world."
John 6:33​

"I am the bread of life."
John 6:48​

"The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly."
John 10:10​

And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1 John 5:11-12​

1 John 1:3

"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."

Again, John reiterates the importance that they were indeed witnesses and that he now is proclaiming this life to them that they may have fellowship with John, for John's fellowship is "indeed" with the Father and His Son Jesus.


In fellowship with Jesus

I thank my God always concerning you, for the grace of God which was given you in Christ Jesus, that in everything you were enriched in Him, in all speech and all knowledge, even as the testimony concerning Christ was confirmed in you, so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, through whom you were called into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 Corinthians 1:4-9​

If therefore there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.
Philippians 2:1-2​

1 John 1:4

" And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full."

Was John writing to ask for their approval of fellowship? Was he writing to present them the truth of Christ, that they also could have fellowship with John? Their "joy" would be full (complete) if they had indeed accepted the message of life eternal that God "has promised to those who love Him"

Don't miss this...

John is writing this letter to this church to confirm with them that they have come to know Christ, because there were many false teachers who had crept into the church. Some, who had proclaimed that Jesus had not come in the flesh. (1 John 4:2) John needs to make sure that this church he is writing to, knows that John is someone who actually walked with, spoke with, and touched Jesus. He is a legitimate authority, who has fellowship with the Father through Jesus Christ. John needs to establish that if they (those who are reading his letter) are going to claim to have fellowship with Jesus and with each other, then John needs to make sure that they understand some of the fundamentals of the faith. Obviously, there had to have been some concern on John's part about some of the teaching that had crept in, or he would not have brought up the things that he is now proclaiming.


1 John 1:5

" This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Here John affirms a message that He had indeed heard from Jesus himself, that is, that "God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all". There are many passages that talk about "light" & "darkness" in the NT, and every reference of "light" deals with either the truth of God, or being saved, that is, possessing the very life of God, the very thing that John is proclaiming.

For men to "let their light shine", they must possess that light, whether it be the truth, or God's life. Jesus clearly explains that to have the life is to have the light, and they shall not walk in darkness. There is no question that if you are "in the light", you are saved! If you are "in darkness", you are lost and without the life of God.


Darkness and Light

In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John 1:4-5​

And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil.
John 3:19​

Again therefore Jesus spoke to them, saying, "I am the light of the world; he who follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life."
John 8:12​

But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Acts 26:16-18​

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?
2 Corinthians 6:14​

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light
Ephesians 5:6-8​

But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you like a thief; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness
1 Thessolonians 4:4-5​

But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light
1 Peter 2:9​

1 John 1:6

" If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth "

This is not difficult to understand. If you are not saved (in darkness), then you are not in fellowship with God, and if you say you are, well then you're lying.

1 John 1:7

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin."

Here is the crux of John's message, and it is clear that to be in fellowship with God that you are "in the light" as He is "in the light" and the result has been that you are cleansed of all sin. There is no way that you can be "in sin" and "in Christ" at the same time. There is no way that you can be "in darkness" and "in the light" at the same time. As John further explains later... "And you know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin." . Those who teach that you can move in & out of fellowship, would also have to believe that you move in & out of light, in & out of life, or in & out of Christ! That is a doctrine of demons, and one that paralyzes belivers into a fear of having any hope that God loves them and that He sustains or keeps them.

The blood of Jesus

"But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ."
Ephesians 2:13​

"… for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins."
Matthew 26:28​

" Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him"
Romans 5:9​

"In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace"
Ephesians 1:7​

"…knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ."
1 Peter 1:18​

"But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
Hebrews 9:11-14​

"And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness."
Hebrews 9:22​

"…To Him who loves us, and released us from our sins by His blood"
Revelation 1:5​

1 John 1:8

"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

This verse has to do with those who claim to have never sinned, or believed that they did not have a sin nature. If that is what they are believing and/or teaching, then they are deceived, they are not "in the light", they are not "in fellowship", and they are not "in Christ"! John even goes so far as to include himself, that if he were making those claims, it would also apply to him. Verse 7 states that Jesus has cleansed us from all sin! Verse 8 is therefore there to affirm that we have in fact, had sin, a sin nature, and that it is Christ that took it away! Either we have been cleansed, or we haven't. You cannot have it both ways.

This is where it takes a critical eye to see why so many are deceived into misusing the previous two verses. It is absolutely ludicrious to tell someone that they have been cleansed of something, and then to tell them they are wrong if they say they no longer have it. That is exactly what false teachers do when they refuse to acknowledge that verse eight is simply reiterating that they must understand that they did in fact have sin.
When John makes the statement that it is Jesus that cleanses them from all sin, he needs to make sure that they know that they did indeed have the sin that needed to be cleansed.

Sin

"…for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
Romans 3:23​

"Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned"
Romans 5:12​

"…for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written, "There is none righteous, not even one; There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one."
Romans 3:9-12​

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners…"
Romans 5:19​

"… whatever is not from faith is sin"
Romans 14:23​

" Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do, and does not do it, to him it is sin."
James 4:17​

"Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (lawlessness).
1 John 3:4​

"All unrighteousness is sin…"
1 John 5:17​

"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness, and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me"
John 16:8-9​

"Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin. "
John 8:34​

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect"
Matthew 5:48


The Greek dictionary defines sin (Hamartia) as: a missing of the mark

Therefore, anything short of absolute perfection is sin!

It still amazes me that Christians actually think that they have the ability to compare themselves to God's standard of perfection, and then to make judgments as to whether or not they are falling short! In doing so, they not only abolish the purpose of the Law, but they completely destroy the intent of the grace of God!


1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

"All unrighteousness is sin…"
1 John 5:17​

Based on what we have already discussed, this should put the false perceptions of this verse to rest. This verse just reaffirms verse 7. To be justified by faith we must admit that we do indeed have sin (a sin nature), and we have in fact sinned. Therefore, John proclaims that it is indeed Jesus who is faithful and righteous to forgive our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If Jesus has cleansed you, you can not make yourself uncleansed! You were unrighteous because you were "in Adam", "in darkness", & "in the flesh". You had no ability to make yourself righteous apart from the cross. But, having now come to Christ, you are "in Christ", "in the light", "in fellowship", & "in the Spirit"! God has placed you there, and it had nothing to do with your works. You have been made righteous by the blood of Christ! How then do you suppose after having been made righteous, that you could make yourself unrighteous? You could never make yourself unrighteous or righteous to begin with. The fact is you can only be cleansed of sin once! You can only be cleansed of unrighteousness once! "For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness" Jesus is not going to be crucified every time you "think" you need forgiveness.

Confession

"So it shall be when he becomes guilty in one of these, that he shall confess that in which he has sinned. 'He shall also bring his guilt offering to the LORD for his sin which he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat as a sin offering. So the priest shall make atonement on his behalf for his sin."
Leviticus 5:5-6​

"And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness"
Leviticus 16:21​

Under the Old Covenant, there had to be confession made with the sacrifice. The sacrifice of Jesus is a better sacrifice (Hebrews 9:26; 10:12). There is no more sacrifice for sin!

Faithful & Just

Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.
Hebrews 2:17​

"Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful"
Hebrews 10:23​

"Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession. He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house."
Hebrews 3:1-2​

"Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."

"For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;"

"He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies"
Romans 8:32-33​

"Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."
Romans 5:9​

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."
Romans 8:29-30​


"…nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:16​



Righteousness is a gift that we receive when we obey (believe in) the gospel!

Righteousness of God

"For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ."
Romans 5:17​

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "But the righteous man shall live by faith."
Romans 1:16-17​

"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness"
Romans 4:5​

"Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness."
Romans 6:16-18​

"…for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Romans 10:10​

"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
2 Corinthians 5:21​

"I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish in order that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith"
Philippians 3:8-9​

"…and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed."
1 Peter 2:24​

"If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him."
1 John 2:29​

"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous."
1 John 3:7​

1 John 1:10

"If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Again, John affirms that those who claim that they never sinned are calling God a liar, and Jesus is not in them!

Christians and sin

"We know that no one who is born of God sins; but He who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him"
1 John 5:18​

"For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucifiedwith Him, that our body of sin might be done away with (destroyed), that we should no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin".
Romans 6:5-7​

"For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God."
Colossians 3:3​
"Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
1 John 3:6-9​

1. He who has died is free from sin.

2. Christians have died and their life is hidden in Christ.

3. No one who is in Christ sins.

4. No one who is born of God sins.

5. The one who commits sin is of the devil and a slave of sin.


Are you a Christian or are you of the devil?


Matthew 7:23

"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'

It says… He never knew them!

They never were Christians! Christians cannot work iniquity or practice lawlessness!!

1 John 2:1-2

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

John confirms again, that Jesus is the one who made propitiation for the whole world. If they are still in sin, they need Jesus, and if you are still in sin, so do you!
 
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Daniel50

New member
Good post.

I personally feel this post is directly addressed to all your fans, like godrulz, CRASH, Apologists etc..
 

Sozo

New member
Daniel50 said:
Good post.

I personally feel this post is directly addressed to all your fans, like godrulz, CRASH, Apologists etc..

The "etc" includes YOU, Daniel.

Pay special attention to verses 7 & 8. You have incorrectly used those verses in the past.
 

Sozo

New member
So, where are all the so-called Christians that keep misusing the verses in 1 John on a regular basis?
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Sozo what do you call it when a Christian does something that would normally be referred to as a sin if they weren't a Christian?
 

Lighthouse

The Dark Knight
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Knight-
If something is a crime in one place, but not a crime in another, what is it called where it is not a crime?
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Lighthouse said:
Knight-
If something is a crime in one place, but not a crime in another, what is it called where it is not a crime?
Is that how you answer a question?

With a question?

This could go on forever. :D
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Lighthouse said:
Knight-
If something is a crime in one place, but not a crime in another, what is it called where it is not a crime?
Crimes are crimes.

If certain governments are too stupid to acknowledge certain crimes that doesn't make the act any less criminal.
 

Sozo

New member
Knight said:
Sozo what do you call it when a Christian does something that would normally be referred to as a sin if they weren't a Christian?
Depends on what they do. If they murder, I would call it murder. If they lie, I call it a lie. etc.

Sin is defined by God as a violation of the Law, or what is not of faith, or unrighteousness.

The wages of sin is death. If what you do is sin, then God must be propitiated for that sin.
 

Sozo

New member
Knight said:
Crimes are crimes.

If certain governments are too stupid to acknowledge certain crimes that doesn't make the act any less criminal.


Is it a crime if there is no Law? Is it a crime to drive 100 miles per hour on the Autobahn?
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Sozo said:
Is it a crime if there is no Law? Is it a crime to drive 100 miles per hour on the Autobahn?
All these questions!

Sheesh would it hurt to just answer a question with an answer?

If there is no law then you could break no law.

However, we know that there are laws and we know that breaking those laws are sinful. Therefore if a Christian breaks a law what do you call it if not a sin?

Let's say a Christian commits adultery. If not a sin, what?
 

Sozo

New member
Knight said:
All these questions!

Sheesh would it hurt to just answer a question with an answer?

If there is no law then you could break no law.

However, we know that there are laws and we know that breaking those laws are sinful. Therefore if a Christian breaks a law what do you call it if not a sin?

Let's say a Christian commits adultery. If not a sin, what?

I call it adultery. (Please see post # 10)
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Sozo said:
I call it adultery. (Please see post # 10)
And you don't think adultery misses the mark?

Is sin relative to the Christian? Crime is crime and sin is sin.

Christians can sin. The beauty is that our sin is covered by the blood of Christ. You unnecessarily confuse the issue because you have failed to rightly divide the word of truth.

Hint: John 8:34 is not a verse written to the Body.

Your theology is correct in that Christians are sealed and are not held accountable for their sin, :up: but your assertion that Christians cannot sin is clearly in error.
 

Sozo

New member
Knight said:
And you don't think adultery misses the mark?

Is sin relative to the Christian? Crime is crime and sin is sin.

Christians can sin. The beauty is that our sin is covered by the blood of Christ. You unnecessarily confuse the issue because you have failed to rightly divide the word of truth.

Hint: John 8:34 is not a verse written to the Body.

Your theology is correct in that Christians are sealed and are not held accountable for their sin, :up: but your assertion that Christians cannot sin is clearly in error.

I invite you to dispute the OP. Please show me how the logic as laid out is flawed. I'm not interested in opinions based on experience, but on the truth as derived from what is written by Paul, John, and Peter.

Sin is only relative to God and any offense to Him. Christians can and do do those things that, under the Law, are defined as sin. I have never denied that. But the bible says clearly that those who are born of God cannnot sin. What does that mean to you if not what it says?
 

Apologist

BANNED
Banned
The only time i really actively use the letters is to reference St. Peter, and only to show that "bible humpin' fundie hicks" (In honor of Inquisitor) can't use St. Paul because they don't understand him.

And occassionaly the letter of James to show that Salvation by Faith and faith alone is bull.
 

Nathon Detroit

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Apologist said:
And occassionaly the letter of James to show that Salvation by Faith and faith alone is bull.
And therein lies one of the problems with the Catholic church. They read other peoples mail as it were addressed to them. :doh:
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Sozo said:
Please show me how the logic as laid out is flawed.
For starters... John 8:34 is written to the circumcision.

Israel was not sealed. They could indeed lose their salvation. It wasn't until God grafted in the gentiles and brought in the dispensation of the uncircumcision that believers were sealed.

Therefore when Jesus said... “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin." He meant it.

After all who was Jesus talking to (specifically) in verse 34?

John 8:30 As He spoke these words, many believed in Him. 31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 “And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” 33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can you say, ‘You will be made free’?” 34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.

Jesus was telling BELIEVING JEWS that if they sinned they would become slaves to sin. This is not the message of grace through the Body of Christ.

Therefore...
Flawed premise = flawed conclusion.
 

Sozo

New member
Knight said:
For starters... John 8:34 is written to the circumcision.

Of course it was. The Gentiles did not have the Law, nor will they ever. So then, why do you think that Gentiles are sinners? Why can Paul say that all have sinned? Why can Paul say to the Gentiles in Romans 6 that they were slaves of sin?
 
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