ARCHIVE: Free From Sin - 1 John
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Sozo
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Sounds like? Are you kidding me?godrulz said:
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
Are you so incompetent that you don't know that he is talking to unbelievers?
I don't care if every commentary on the face of the earth said that this verse applies to Christians, it is impossible! Otherwise, John is mad!
He just told them in the previous verse that those who are in fellowsip with Jesus have been cleansed from ALL sin.
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin."
You don't tell someone who had something removed that they still have it. The only person who can still have something is someone who has not had it removed.
Verse 8 is speaking to someone who has not had it removed (cleansed). They are unbelievers.
John is making a general commentary, just as Paul does in much of his writings about who Jesus is, what He has done, and what happens with those who come to Him by faith.
Those who claim they have no sin are liars. You don't call someone a liar, whom you just told that they have been cleansed of all sin, for claiming they do not have it.
vs 7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin."
There is not ONE verse that claims that a Christian can walk in darkness (I provided every single possible piece of evidence for this in the OP).
Okay, but they are one or the other, not someone who goes back and forth from being one or the other.
It's a good thing that the writers of these letters are not as unstable as you, because they would have had no idea what they were talking about. :kookoo:
It's not "may also be" anything. It says what it says, and it means what it means.
Note of compassion: godrulz... you have got to get a grip on this. You cannot walk around for your entire life believeing that there are two or more possible understandings of essential Christain doctrine. It will destroy you. You will lose your mind.
The "we" in those verses are those with John (perhaps referring specifically to the Apostles).
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life"
Those who John is writing to are not the "we". Not everyone that read/reads John's letter saw Jesus with their eyes or touched Him.
" If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth "A Christian CANNOT walk in darkness. If you are making that claim, then you disagree with the entirety of the gospel message as recorded in the NT. (Again, I provided ALL proof in the OP).
You're insane :bang:
The entire writings of John, Peter, Paul, James are filled with redundancy! There is nothing in those verses that speak of a believer sinning. Again, you are turning John into a madman, when it is you alone who are quite mad!
"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
John confirms again, that Jesus is the one who made propitiation for the whole world. If they are still in sin, they need Jesus, and if you are still in sin, so do you! If the shoe fits, wear it!
You can do what you want, but I just proved that it is impossible for that to be the case. Only those who have not been cleansed from sin can confess that they have sin. Only a madman would confess that they have something after it was taken away. You are that madman.
Once agian, it matters not if every commentary in the whole world, and every "credible" author or teacher claim that 1 John 1:9 applies to the body of Christ, John says it does not, and I agree with John who also said in this same letter...
"Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
1 John 3:6-9
elected4ever
New member
2 Corinthians 7:1 *¶Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
How is one cleanse oneself from all filthness of the flesh and spirit? Is it not by believing God? Have Sozo and I at any time taught that we should disobey the law? Have sozo and I ever taught a righteousness that did not exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees? Have we not said over and over and over again that we have the righteousness of Christ? Have we not said that all our works are as filthy rags in God's eyes? Have we not confirmed that we were saved in order to produce the good works of God? By what standard do you lay a charge against Sozo and me? You who say that we must keep the law, do you keep the law? Do you not know , you who live by law, that if you fail in one part of it you are guilty of all? You never miss the mark by just a little bit. You miss the whole target. It is 100% or zero. You do or do not. There is no maybes in God's eyes You are righteous as God is righteous or you are a sinner as your father Satan because he is the father of sin. I cut you no slack. Your answer is yea, yea or nay, nay. So far your answer has been nay, nay.
Hebrews 10:16 *This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 *And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 *Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 *¶Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 *By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 *And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 *Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 *Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised; )
How is one cleanse oneself from all filthness of the flesh and spirit? Is it not by believing God? Have Sozo and I at any time taught that we should disobey the law? Have sozo and I ever taught a righteousness that did not exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees? Have we not said over and over and over again that we have the righteousness of Christ? Have we not said that all our works are as filthy rags in God's eyes? Have we not confirmed that we were saved in order to produce the good works of God? By what standard do you lay a charge against Sozo and me? You who say that we must keep the law, do you keep the law? Do you not know , you who live by law, that if you fail in one part of it you are guilty of all? You never miss the mark by just a little bit. You miss the whole target. It is 100% or zero. You do or do not. There is no maybes in God's eyes You are righteous as God is righteous or you are a sinner as your father Satan because he is the father of sin. I cut you no slack. Your answer is yea, yea or nay, nay. So far your answer has been nay, nay.
Hebrews 10:16 *This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 *And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 *Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 *¶Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 *By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 *And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 *Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 *Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised; )
Thx for the thoughtful response, sozo. I do not believe that believers can walk in darkness and persist in sin and unbelief. If I was not clear, those verses are about unbelievers. I continue to suggest that 1:9 WE (believers) relates to Christians who have an isolated lapse, such as adultery. There is provision for past, present, and future sins. Just as David confessed his sin to a holy God (Ps. 32; 51), so this is appropriate if a NT believer does the same thing. I Jn. 1:9 is the promise for us. If someone commits adultery, in your view, are they not to repent, confess, and renew purity? Are they to persist in sin because they have no sin or are forgiven in advance? I Jn. 3 also must be exegeted on its own merits.
I do not wish to be double minded, nor do I believe there are two right interpretations for a verse. Like it or not, some verses are not as clear as you think. Godly, capable people debate many passages. Few of us have perfect understanding of every verse. Some who think they do are basing it on a poor translation, for example.
I understand where you are coming from and do not have a big problem with it, but I cannot agree with everything and have a clear conscience with interpretation issues.
I do not wish to be double minded, nor do I believe there are two right interpretations for a verse. Like it or not, some verses are not as clear as you think. Godly, capable people debate many passages. Few of us have perfect understanding of every verse. Some who think they do are basing it on a poor translation, for example.
I understand where you are coming from and do not have a big problem with it, but I cannot agree with everything and have a clear conscience with interpretation issues.
Matthew 23:1-12 "Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger. But they do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men. But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. But the greatest among you shall be your servant. Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted." NASUSozo said:
elected4ever
New member
Answering Sozo's question like that speaks a lot about you handle. You are un intellectual alright. That has nothing to do with the question Sozo ask.Intellectual said:
elected4ever
New member
You haven't been following the conversation have you?Untellectual said:
Charity
New member
What is righteousness?
The beginning and end of your Judgement.
If ye shall judge yourself ye shall be found righteous before God, and shall not be judged
Search your own hearts not others.
Refuse to accuse another; for you shall be measured by the same measure ye use on others
Show mercy to others and mercy shall be shown to you by the father
charity
.
The beginning and end of your Judgement.
If ye shall judge yourself ye shall be found righteous before God, and shall not be judged
Search your own hearts not others.
Refuse to accuse another; for you shall be measured by the same measure ye use on others
Show mercy to others and mercy shall be shown to you by the father
charity
.
BUMP: This thread is a classic. Total refutation of the silly assertion "Christians CANNOT sin".
Pages 1 thru 15 or so are awesome.
Pages 1 thru 15 or so are awesome.
The following is four verses that utterly destroy the idea that Christians cannot sin.Sozo said:
1Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. 7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse. 9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.
Ephesians 4:25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give place to the devil.
Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”
1Corinthians 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
You are capable of sin, but thankfully your sin is covered. That is the gospel.
It is not a sin when one is not under the law. Can a Christian transgress the law, Knight?