ARCHIVE: Free From Sin - 1 John

[elected4ever]

I said it's one reason why, of course there are many others. Jesus' own declarations are far more telling of the importance of the eucharist but this is one of the implications thereof - that we need spiritual nourishment so that God will dwell within us uninterruptedly.

And you never complained about my other German signatures! Though I will change it if it really bothers you. So long as you know it is from the Bible you should be able to say "amen" to it, shouldn't you?

There is not even an implication of such a thing.

Maybe to a German it is clear but to me it is not. You can leave the German but kindly put it in English too. It is supposed to be for edification isn't it?

 

[Spitfire]

"Jakobus" is James.

And it seems like people like you can't see past the letters of the words. Individual truths of the Bible are naturally intertwined as they are all testimony to the one truth.

 

[elected4ever]

"Jakobus" is James.

And it seems like people like you can't see past the letters of the words. Individual truths of the Bible are naturally intertwined as they are all testimony to the one truth.

Thank you

 

[Lighthouse]

Where do you get that Christ fulfilled the law, because we can't?

(I mean this to say that I know that Christ fulfilled all righteousness... but there may be something different in what you are saying.)

Why do you say that He fulfilled the law, because we can't?

Shalom,

Jacob

We are completely incapable of being righteous, of our own works. There is nothing we can do, so Christ did it for us. And since He did it for us, now we don't even have to try to do it. It's already done. I do not think I am perceiving this particular concept any different than you are.

 

[Lighthouse]

Any given thought, motive, deed, or act is vice or virtue, righteous or unrighteous. You are talking globally (forest) and I am talking locally (trees). We are righteous in Christ, but that does not make adultery neutral or righteous. By definition, it is an unrighteous sin, regardless of who does it or what dispensation it is done in. The will, not a positional standing, determines the nature of any one choice in one brief moment of time.

Unrighteous acts can only be committed by unrighteous beings. And only that which is righteous in us is in Christ [Christian]. It is the part of us that is in Christ that does not sin. That which sins is seperated from Christ. Adultery is unrighteous, and not neutral. I agree. What you fail to see is the difference between the new creation and the old man.

 

[Lighthouse]

Paul said a believer can yield to the spirit or the flesh. Those who continuously walk in the flesh are not in Christ. If those in Christ commit a fleshly act/lapse, they are in the flesh in that one act and need to return to spirit submission.

ERROR

Has a Christian ever been jealous or had a fit of rage (I have). This is in the list of the acts of the flesh (Gal. 5 vs fruit of Spirit).

Romans 6:13 (to believers) "Do not (command) offer the parts of your body (same word as flesh) to SIN (talking to believers)...v. 12 (imperative) Do not let sin reign in your mortal body/flesh so that you (believers) obey its evil desires...

Sin can reign in the flesh, but it cannot reign in Christ. And that which is in Christ cannot have sin, period.

This is not your view of sinless perfectionism.

You don't even know what my view is. You've shown that on numerous occasions.

 

[Jacob]

We are completely incapable of being righteous, of our own works. There is nothing we can do, so Christ did it for us. And since He did it for us, now we don't even have to try to do it. It's already done. I do not think I am perceiving this particular concept any different than you are.

not sure if we are in agreement. I believe that the requirement of the Law must be fulfilled.

 

[godrulz]

Unrighteous acts can only be committed by unrighteous beings. And only that which is righteous in us is in Christ [Christian]. It is the part of us that is in Christ that does not sin. That which sins is seperated from Christ. Adultery is unrighteous, and not neutral. I agree. What you fail to see is the difference between the new creation and the old man.

If YOU use YOUR WILL and YOUR GENTITALS to fornicate or adulterate, then YOU, the believer, are sinning. Blaming it on a nebulous part of your being would remove responsibility and need to cease the sinful behavior. Believers can commit adultery. Adultery is an unrighteous, sinful act. You are divorcing your will and mind and genitals from you, the whole person, spirit, soul, body. This leads to confusion and error.

 

[godrulz]

ERROR


Sin can reign in the flesh, but it cannot reign in Christ. And that which is in Christ cannot have sin, period.


You don't even know what my view is. You've shown that on numerous occasions.

Sin is volitional, not a substance that lodges in your body/flesh. It is in the realm of morals (technical, theological term). You are making it a metaphysical (stuff, substance, thing) issue. This is one root to your confused thinking. We have a will that can obey or disobey (hence the NT exhortations to obey, walk in the Spirit, walk in the light vs flesh, disobey, etc.). Christ is in us, but we are not Christ. The Corinthian believers misused their wills. We are not sock puppets.


LH thinks this is nonsense. Intelligent feedback from someone besides the peanut gallery?

 

[elected4ever]

Sin is volitional, not a substance that lodges in your body/flesh. It is in the realm of morals (technical, theological term). You are making it a metaphysical (stuff, substance, thing) issue. This is one root to your confused thinking. We have a will that can obey or disobey (hence the NT exhortations to obey, walk in the Spirit, walk in the light vs flesh, disobey, etc.). Christ is in us, but we are not Christ. The Corinthian believers misused their wills. We are not sock puppets.

You just can't stand for someone to tell you that you will have nothing to brag to God about can you?

 

[godrulz]

You just can't stand for someone to tell you that you will have nothing to brag to God about can you?

Huh? Non sequitur. How can we brag or boast, as Paul says, when salvation is of grace. God initiates (while we were yet sinners, He died for us), provides, regenerates, saves, dies for us, etc. Can anyone brag for receiving a free gift (you still have to receive vs reject it, but this is not meritorious)? God gets all of the glory for incarnating, dying, and rising again. Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Are you making the condition of faith a work or self-righteousness that we boast in? Do we save ourselves? Can we die for mankind? Are we God? Do our works save or keep us (no)? Is loving obedience in response to God's love self-righteousness or is it a response that brings glory and delight to God?

Diagnosis: You are rejecting a STRAW MAN CARICATURE of non-antinomian views.

 

[elected4ever]

Huh? Non sequitur. How can we brag or boast, as Paul says, when salvation is of grace. God initiates (while we were yet sinners, He died for us), provides, regenerates, saves, dies for us, etc. Can anyone brag for receiving a free gift (you still have to receive vs reject it, but this is not meritorious)? God gets all of the glory for incarnating, dying, and rising again. Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

If you believe that then why does your theology reflect otherwise?

Are you making the condition of faith a work or self-righteousness that we boast in? Do we save ourselves? Can we die for mankind? Are we God? Do our works save or keep us (no)? Is loving obedience in response to God's love self-righteousness or is it a response that brings glory and delight to God?

No, you are. That is the argument we have You do because you are. Not to become or maintain.

Diagnosis: You are rejecting a STRAW MAN CARICATURE of non-antinomian views.

if it is a straw man then why do you propose it with almost ever post?

 

[godrulz]

If you believe that then why does your theology reflect otherwise?

No, you are. That is the argument we have You do because you are. Not to become or maintain.

if it is a straw man then why do you propose it with almost ever post?

Perhaps you do not fully understand what I believe (I'm not sure I even do). Perhaps you should not put words in my mouth. My view is not inconsistent with salvation by grace through faith alone, apart from works. God gets all of the glory, but WE still have to respond to His conviction and convincing (hence not everyone is saved).

 

[elected4ever]

Perhaps you do not fully understand what I believe (I'm not sure I even do). Perhaps you should not put words in my mouth. My view is not inconsistent with salvation by grace through faith alone, apart from works. God gets all of the glory, but WE still have to respond to His conviction and convincing (hence not everyone is saved).

There are three questions that must be answered and they must be answered yes or no.

1. Do I do what I do because I am saved?

2. Do I do what I do in order to be saved?

3. Do I do what I do in order to stay saved?

Where I have my problem with you is question # 3. Your salvation is not in your hands. It is God's salvation that He has extended to you by grace. There is no maintenance program. You are or you are not. It is that simple. You are in the light or you are not in the light. You are sanctified or you are not sanctified. Salvation is not a revolving door. You are in or you are out. You cannot hold your theology and proclaim your self saved and then tern right around and deny it in the lives of others because they do not do what you do. They may do differently. The effect a person's actions have is the the amount of confidence that I place in in them. That is a person to person issue and not a person to God issue. And another thing now that I am thinking about it. Why is it that you cannot see the difference in the life that you received from your earthy parents and the life received from God? That are separate and distinct in the scripture. If you are saved, the first is dead and the second is life eternal. How is it that you say the dead can kill the living? You are ether dead or you are alive. None the twain shall meet.

 

[godrulz]

The Bible talks about being dead, yet alive. Death is not annihilation. The analogy cannot be pressed beyond the text. We are to count ourselves dead to sin (Rom. 6) as we identify with Christ. This does not mean that we do not have a will or mind. You still do not adequately explain how a dead to sin Christian can fornicate or adulterate. These are volitional, sinful choices. We have newness of life in Christ, but that does not make us robots. Eternal life is in the Son, not resident in us. Rebellious, selfish, unbelief and renunciation of Christ and His finished work is the antithesis of being a believer. Unbelievers and apostates fit the bill and are not in the Son...they do not have life since they are not in relationship to Him. Love, faith, trust, surrender, obedience, etc. are not one time remote issues. They are ongoing if one is to be considered a believer at death. Someone who is supremely selfish and hates Christ is not a believer. Saying they are saved because they once were in the past or denying that they were ever saved since they changed at the end is a false dichotomy. The other issue is that falling away and apostasy are real possibilities as stupid as it is.

 

[Lighthouse]

not sure if we are in agreement. I believe that the requirement of the Law must be fulfilled.

I believe it has already been fulfilled.

 

[Lighthouse]

If YOU use YOUR WILL and YOUR GENTITALS to fornicate or adulterate, then YOU, the believer, are sinning. Blaming it on a nebulous part of your being would remove responsibility and need to cease the sinful behavior. Believers can commit adultery. Adultery is an unrighteous, sinful act. You are divorcing your will and mind and genitals from you, the whole person, spirit, soul, body. This leads to confusion and error.

I am not my sin. And I will not identify myself with my sin, for I am identified with Christ. That is who I now am, and that is only who I will recognize myself as. You can whine about it all you want, but you cannot make me identify myself with the old me. That is no longer who I am, and I refuse to be known as that person.

 

[Lighthouse]

Sin is volitional, not a substance that lodges in your body/flesh. It is in the realm of morals (technical, theological term). You are making it a metaphysical (stuff, substance, thing) issue. This is one root to your confused thinking. We have a will that can obey or disobey (hence the NT exhortations to obey, walk in the Spirit, walk in the light vs flesh, disobey, etc.). Christ is in us, but we are not Christ. The Corinthian believers misused their wills. We are not sock puppets.

:blabla:

 

[Jacob]

I believe it has already been fulfilled.

I believe we are in disagreement.

What does the Lord require of you?

Shalom,

Jacob

 

[Lighthouse]

Crist Himself said that He came to fulfill the law. And that is exactly what He did on the cross. He requires nothing of me, because there is nothing I can do to be worthy. I cannot make myself righteous.:nono: If I could then Christ's death would have been in vain. All I can do is accept the truth. Accept than I need Him. Accept that I needed Him to do what He did. Accept what He did. And Accpet Him.