ARCHIVE: Free From Sin - 1 John

[elected4ever]

Fact #1 you were a sinner or you could not have been saved Only sinners need a savior

Fact #2 If you trusted Jesus as your savior, god placed his seed in you and you cannot sin.

Fact # 3 All sin has been condemned in the flesh.

Fact #4 When you were first judged a sinner you died. Your flesh was eternally separated from God.

Fact 5 When you were saved you were given life from the dead.

Fact 6 When you were saved you were given life from the dead.

Fact # 7 if you are saved you are not of the flesh.

Fact # 8 If you are saved you are of the spirit and not of the flesh.

Fact # 9 It is not you that sins but the sin that is condemned in the flesh sins. but that is not you if you are born of God.

Fact # 10 If you have not received the spirit of God you do not belong to Him.

But I don't see where any of you believe any of those things so why should I call you brother or sister. You insist that you sin and all sinners are of the devil and not God. To be a child of God and remain in sin, forgiven or not, is not biblical. Let your yea be yea and your no be no. You cannot have the righteousness of God and your sin. It is one or the other. It is not possible to be both. Now show me where any of these statements are untrue. Sozo has made these statement many many times and you did not believe him and I now make these statements and you will not believe me ether. Neither do you believe the witness of the apostles . So you do not believe Jesus ether. You are yet in your unbelief or you are believing lies concerning the truth.

 

[elected4ever]

The apostle Paul disagrees...

1Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live. 7 However, there is not in everyone that knowledge; for some, with consciousness of the idol, until now eat it as a thing offered to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. 8 But food does not commend us to God; for neither if we eat are we the better, nor if we do not eat are we the worse. 9 But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.

Ephesians 4:25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give place to the devil.

Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

1Corinthians 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

You are capable of sin, but thankfully your sin is covered. That is the gospel.

You have not the faintest knowledge of what is being said. I think you are afraid or willfully ignorant. I think you are willfully ignorant. We have been down that road and you have refused the knowledge of the truth. I understand however. i believed the same thing for most of my life. Why ? because i was taught that in my youth and it is traditional teaching. It is wrong teaching however. You prove that i made a misstatement. You read the passages that i know you are aware off Why would you believe tradition over the truth?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

But I don't see where any of you believe any of those things so why should I call you brother or sister. You insist that you sin and all sinners are of the devil and not God.

Why then does Paul state so clearly that we CAN sin?

You are avoiding the clear words God put in the Bible.

Your theology regarding this topic is clearly man-made and unbiblical. The worst part is there is no pay-off! You could have a awesome biblical message by stating the biblically accurate gospel that when a Christian sin's that sin is already paid for in full by the blood of Jesus.

 

[elected4ever]

Knight, so you now believe that you could send your weak brother to hill by offending him, right?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I think you are afraid or willfully ignorant. I think you are willfully ignorant.

Please spare me the uncalled for insults. I have been nothing but cordial to you in this thread I expect the same in return.

We have been down that road and you have refused the knowledge of the truth.

We haven't been "down that road". You act as if you have somewhow responded the verses I have shown you that clearly refute your assertions. You haven't even tried!

Paul is clear, God is clear, the Bible is clear. I believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God what you are saying flies in the face of the plain teaching of the Bible.

The Bible should be taken literally, there is no reason to assume Paul meant something other than what he stated so plainly.

 

[elected4ever]

Why then does Paul state so clearly that we CAN sin?

You are avoiding the clear words God put in the Bible.

Your theology regarding this topic is clearly man-made and unbiblical. The worst part is there is no pay-off! You could have a awesome biblical message by stating the biblically accurate gospel that when a Christian sin's that sin is already paid for in full by the blood of Jesus.

That is a bald faced lie and you know it. Are you now in the business of falsely accusing the brethren? You do know who falsely accuses don't you? Show me one statement that is not biblical.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Knight, so you now believe that you could send your weak brother to hill by offending him, right?

Uh.. that doesn't even make sense.

Maybe you could respond to...

Ephesians 4:25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give place to the devil.

Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

1Corinthians 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Show me one statement that is not biblical.

OK... "Christians cannot sin." That statement is clearly not biblical.

 

[elected4ever]

Please spare me the uncalled for insults. I have been nothing but cordial to you in this thread I expect the same in return.

Then quit lying.

We haven't been "down that road". You act as if you have somehow responded the verses I have shown you that clearly refute your assertions. You haven't even tried!

Yes we have and you have refused to receive my answer in favor of your tradition. That is not my fault.

Paul is clear, God is clear, the Bible is clear. I believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God what you are saying flies in the face of the plain teaching of the Bible.

Show me one misstatement. You have 10 shots at it.

The Bible should be taken literally, there is no reason to assume Paul meant something other than what he stated so plainly.

I agree So why do you?

 

[elected4ever]

OK... "Christians cannot sin." That statement is clearly not biblical.

1 John 3:9 *Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Wont to try again?

 

[godrulz]

Which post?

I want to see if he is using different ones than I.

Sorry. I meant your posts (edit done).

Am I missing something, or is e4e not responding to the verses, but is merely insulting you?

 

[godrulz]

1 John 3:9 *Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Wont to try again?

This does not contradict I John 1:9; 2:1,2 that says believers do not need to sin, but they can sin (if...then). If they sin, there is provision as we have an advocate.

One possible resolution is the Greek present, continuous tense. NIV captures the sense by correctly, grammatically translating it "No one who is born of God will CONTINUE to sin...".

cf. Paul in I Cor. 6:9-11 lists things that send people to hell. Some of these things are done by Christians, but they do not go to hell. There is a difference between an isolated lapse into sin that is repented of with renewed obedience (such as one brief affair), and a godless lifestyle of habitual, unrepentant sin as a rebellious unbeliever.

The grammar and context of your proof text has other explanations besides your wooden literalism based on some translations that creates a contradiction with other didactic passages. Change your translation/interpretation, not the intended meaning of the passage. Commentators have proposed other possible resolutions that also indicate that a believer should not sin (without wrongly concluding it is impossible volitionally to sin).

Do not pit one verse of John against his other verses, nor one verse against several from Paul that have an apparent contradiction. Your subjective interpretation is incorrect, not the objective Word of God.

 

[Jacob]

Nicodemus

Nicodemus

Whoa! Was Paul talking about how we CAN sin in Romans??? That flies in the face of what Paul wrote in Romans! May it never be!!! Remember... that's one of the suggestions of the Bible. Sarcasm, yes. Is this not the patience of God Peter is talking about in Paul that we see in Romans? Does not Paul say in Romans that the requirement of the Law must be met?

Paul often spoke of how deep he felt his "depravity".

When are we freed from sin?

When does our obedience become complete?

When are we born of God?

I'm not suggesting that these things happen all at the same time... I haven't gone that far yet... but there is something to believing what 1 John says. And, I'm certain that theological systems are getting in the way of the plain reading. We don't become born of God through logical (that is, psychological to be clear) means! Doesn't John 1 make that clear enough?

Do the elect ever sin?

Remember... "...the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "..." (2 Timothy 2:19).

Shalom,

Jacob
Deuteronomy 6:4; Matthew 5:17-20; John 11:25; Romans 1:16-17

 

[elected4ever]

parentheses are mine.

Ephesians 4:25 Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. 26 “Be angry, and do not offend/b]”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, 27 nor give place to the devil.

Romans 4:7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose (Offenses) are covered; Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute (his Offenses).”

1Corinthians 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee sexual immorality. Every (offense) that a man (commits) is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality (offends) his own body.It is the same Greek word. Sin does not have to be arbitrarily translated. it is just as correct to say offend and is really the word called for.

 

[elected4ever]

This does not contradict I John 1:9; 2:1,2 that says believers do not need to sin, but they can sin (if...then). If they sin, there is provision as we have an advocate.

One possible resolution is the Greek present, continuous tense. NIV captures the sense by correctly, grammatically translating it "No one who is born of God will CONTINUE to sin...".

cf. Paul in I Cor. 6:9-11 lists things that send people to hell. Some of these things are done by Christians, but they do not go to hell. There is a difference between an isolated lapse into sin that is repented of with renewed obedience (such as one brief affair), and a godless lifestyle of habitual, unrepentant sin as a rebellious unbeliever.

The grammar and context of your proof text has other explanations besides your wooden literalism based on some translations that creates a contradiction with other didactic passages. Change your translation/interpretation, not the intended meaning of the passage. Commentators have proposed other possible resolutions that also indicate that a believer should not sin (without wrongly concluding it is impossible volitionally to sin).

Do not pit one verse of John against his other verses, nor one verse against several from Paul that have an apparent contradiction. Your subjective interpretation is incorrect, not the objective Word of God.

Show me the word need in the verse and no it does not refute I John 1:9; 2:1,2. You do.

 

[lollu]

In a conservative southern church, the pastor's wife found pornography on her husband's computer. After confronting him with the evidence, he admitted downloading the images off the internet, even using the computer in his study which was located in the church itself. Somehow he had separated his ongoing sexual sin from his responsibilities and duties as a man of God.

 

[godrulz]

Show me the word need in the verse and no it does not refute I John 1:9; 2:1,2. You do.

The Spirit inspired the grammar of the verse. It is basic first year Greek grammar to recognize the usual continuous, habitual, present tense. It is normative for a believer to not sin. If they do, it is not the godless, habitual sin that an unbeliever persists in. The word obedience is used throughout the NT in a context of holiness. You cannot divorce volition from our relationship with God and His Word. A believer does not continue to commit sin since they are under the Lordship of Christ. This does not mean it is IMPOSSIBLE (cannot) sin, especially in light of other relevant verses, even in the same book.

 

[godrulz]

In a conservative southern church, the pastor's wife found pornography on her husband's computer. After confronting him with the evidence, he admitted downloading the images off the internet, even using the computer in his study which was located in the church itself. Somehow he had separated his ongoing sexual sin from his responsibilities and duties as a man of God.

Lust and adultery have been committed by men of God from Genesis to Revelation and in Church history. These things are defined as sin in Scripture. One sin does not unsave a person (the sin of unbelief is unique). There is no biblical basis to say it is impossible for a Christian to sin. It requires mental gymnastics and proof texting to support this rare heresy (sinless perfectionism) in Christian circles. It is neither self-evident nor biblical.

 

[lollu]

Does the grace of God give a license to sin?

 

[elected4ever]

The Spirit inspired the grammar of the verse. It is basic first year Greek grammar to recognize the usual continuous, habitual, present tense. It is normative for a believer to not sin. If they do, it is not the godless, habitual sin that an unbeliever persists in. The word obedience is used throughout the NT in a context of holiness. You cannot divorce volition from our relationship with God and His Word. A believer does not continue to commit sin since they are under the Lordship of Christ. This does not mean it is IMPOSSIBLE (cannot) sin, especially in light of other relevant verses, even in the same book.

A habit is the Natural, action according to character and not learned behavior. An apple tree does not produce oranges. It is the habit of the apple tree to produce apples. It is the habit or nature of the righteous to produce righteousness. It does not say that a Christian can not continually do anything but is absolute "DOETH NOT SIN." It is not the character of the Christian. An apple tree does not produce oranges at any time and the child of God does not sin at anytime. Godrulz, your are the most pathetic lier.