Anybody know much about Islam?

[journey]

Recognizing Jesus as "God the Son" with a big G, or "very God of very God," as the Nicean Creed states, was a post-apostolic doctrine so can't be essential understanding for Muslims or anyone else to come to Christ. You are preaching a false Gospel if you think these theological points are what saves people.

See http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4591458&postcount=120 for the Gospel of the Grace of God - the only means of Salvation in this Age of Grace. Jesus Christ willingly went to the Cross for big reasons.

 

[Krsto]

It's their rejection of Jesus based on Him not being what He said He was. One with His Father. They can not place their faith in Him until they accept who He truly was.

I think accepting him as a spokesman for God is all that Jesus requires of them. All the other theological points are just icing on the cake.

 

[LoneStar]

Are you familiar with the teachings of Jesus? Love your enemies. Treat your neighbor as yourself. That sort of thing. Have you never been to church or did they not teach you this at the one you went to?

Are you familiar with Jesus telling folks what a bunch of despots they were? Whitewashed sepulchres, children of the devil, and so on? Or how about Him throwing Satan, the beast, and the false prophet into the lake of fire, along with others? Maybe you should be looking for a church that has done a little more research on what 'love your enemies' actually entails.

And maybe you should be finding a church that actually believes that Paul was a chosen servant of the Lord Jesus Christ, and what he told fellow Christians to do.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17 KJV
(14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
(15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
(16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,



Ephesians 5:11 KJV
(11) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

 

[journey]

I think accepting him as a spokesman for God is all that Jesus requires of them. All the other theological points are just icing on the cake.

Jesus Christ is Lord, Saviour, and God - not just a spokesman for God. Are you another one of those folks who deny the deity of Jesus Christ? Regardless, I hope that you're not in the ministry. You're far too confused, and you don't share the Good News of the Gospel of the Grace of God.

 

[Krsto]

Personally, I'm a pacifist and believe that welcoming Muslims will help to tame down the violent rhetoric and even allow them to leave Islam in time. In fact, that's what already seems to be going on, but then there are other important factors to also consider.

Are they (the migrants and Muslim populations that are non-violent) trying to curb the violent, sectarian attitudes of the few who threaten their new lives? They should be the ones reigning the radicals in.

I agree but how exactly are the real Muslims supposed to curb the violent ones, practically speaking? I mean, despots like Saddam Hussein and Assad are the best insurance against radical Islam money can buy (and we don't have to pay them a dime), but that just perpetuates the problem that creates the "need" for a radical solution, such as creating an illegitimate caliphate. I like your non-violent stance, but personally I don't think it's enough. I think if we had spent a fraction of our war effort on just educating Arabs we would have accomplished so much more. One of the Muslim chaplains at a POW camp in Iraq said the best thing our military was doing there was teaching people how to read so they can read the quran for themselves and not be BS'd by the radicals. Illiteracy is a huge problem in Arab countries and unfortunately the instability that we brought to the region only made it worse. These people need our help but the only thing people like Bush, Obama, Trump, and even Clinton can think to do is drop bombs which kill innocents and increase the ISIS recruiting pool. That region needs Christian solutions but what they are getting from the Religious Right is an ignorant, anti-Christ, war-mongering pile of destructive bull hockey. We aren't exporting Democracy, we are exporting darkness and destruction.

 

[Krsto]

Are you familiar with Jesus telling folks what a bunch of despots they were? Whitewashed sepulchres, children of the devil, and so on? Or how about Him throwing Satan, the beast, and the false prophet into the lake of fire, along with others? Maybe you should be looking for a church that has done a little more research on what 'love your enemies' actually entails.

And maybe you should be finding a church that actually believes that Paul was a chosen servant of the Lord Jesus Christ, and what he told fellow Christians to do.

2 Corinthians 6:14-17 KJV
(14) Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
(15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
(16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,



Ephesians 5:11 KJV
(11) And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

I'm sure all of that perfectly justifies you wanting me to hate Muslims by lying about them and their religion instead of sticking up for them in the face of the white-washed tombs that talk a good talk but inside hate "sinners" and would rather throw stones than find a way to heal them.

Do you have any Muslim friends? If not, why not?

 

[journey]

I'm sure all of that perfectly justifies you wanting me to hate Muslims by lying about them and their religion instead of sticking up for them in the face of the white-washed tombs that talk a good talk but inside hate "sinners" and would rather throw stones than find a way to heal them.

Do you have any Muslim friends? If not, why not?

I'll give you an answer - NO! I consider many of them to be unstable and ticking time-bombs for violence. I don't want them around my wife, children, and grand-children. You're wasting a lot of time talking - go out and practice what you preach.

 

[Krsto]

Jesus Christ is Lord, Saviour, and God - not just a spokesman for God. Are you another one of those folks who deny the deity of Jesus Christ? Regardless, I hope that you're not in the ministry. You're far too confused, and you don't share the Good News of the Gospel of the Grace of God.

You don't either because you don't know what that is. I actually believe God has grace. If a Muslim repudiates violence and seeks peace (as most do) then he is submitting to the Spirit of Christ, and has come to know God, through Christ, whether he realizes it or not. He is saved through Christ, apart from any knowledge or correct understanding of Christ, while others (Christians) are saved through knowledge. Do you remember Jesus saying that if he be lifted up he would draw all men unto himself? I believe he's been doing just that ever since. Do you remember him saying the Spirit is like the wind, you can see it rustling the leaves but don't know where it comes from or where it's going, and how he said you must be born from above? I suggest a peaceful Muslim has been born from above, has had Jesus drawing him from above through the work of the Spirit, and you can see the work in front of you but just didn't know it was from Jesus and neither did he. I'm guessing you can't see God doing that because that would be more grace than you would want to give God credit for. Am I right? :think: Also, do you remember Jesus saying the way to inherit eternal life is to love God and love your neighbor? Did he say they had to have perfectly accurate knowledge of God in order to love him? If you think so then you are a preacher of Gnosticism, not the grace of God.

 

[Eric h]

That region needs Christian solutions but what they are getting from the Religious Right is an ignorant, anti-Christ, war-mongering pile of destructive bull hockey.

I think this comes down to the terms and conditions written into the greatest commandments, love your neighbours, (except the Muslims )

Love and pray for your enemies ( except the Muslims )

See how the Bible starts to make sense, when you read the exclusion clauses.

 

[Krsto]

I'll give you an answer - NO! I consider many of them to be unstable and ticking time-bombs for violence. I don't want them around my wife, children, and grand-children. You're wasting a lot of time talking - go out and practice what you preach.

Perfect fear casts out all love, as they say. Did you know Jesus can change that for you? Actually help you to love people? The awesome thing about the Gospel is that when Jesus says things like "love your neighbor" and "love your enemies, and do good to them," and "overcome evil with good" (or was that Paul?) he doesn't just leave it at that. He also gives POWER to accomplish it. That's why he said "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand." The power of the Kingdom is here now so that when you turn from your sin you are given an ability to overcome your sins, not just be forgiven of them. It was an invitation, not an ultimatum. Grace will revolutionize your life my friend. It's not just a theological construct.

 

[Krsto]

I think this comes down to the terms and conditions written into the greatest commandments, love your neighbours, (except the Muslims )

Love and pray for your enemies ( except the Muslims )

See how the Bible starts to make sense, when you read the exclusion clauses.

I know, huh?

 

[journey]

You don't either because you don't know what that is. I actually believe God has grace. If a Muslim repudiates violence and seeks peace (as most do) then he is submitting to the Spirit of Christ, and has come to know God, through Christ, whether he realizes it or not. He is saved through Christ, apart from any knowledge or correct understanding of Christ, while others (Christians) are saved through knowledge. Do you remember Jesus saying that if he be lifted up he would draw all men unto himself? I believe he's been doing just that ever since. Do you remember him saying the Spirit is like the wind, you can see it rustling the leaves but don't know where it comes from or where it's going, and how he said you must be born from above? I suggest a peaceful Muslim has been born from above, has had Jesus drawing him from above through the work of the Spirit, and you can see the work in front of you but just didn't know it was from Jesus and neither did he. I'm guessing you can't see God doing that because that would be more grace than you would want to give God credit for. Am I right? :think: Also, do you remember Jesus saying the way to inherit eternal life is to love God and love your neighbor? Did he say they had to have perfectly accurate knowledge of God in order to love him? If you think so then you are a preacher of Gnosticism, not the grace of God.

Like I said - I hope that you're not in the ministry. You're not just confused - you don't have a clue. You don't know what the Gospel of the Grace of God is - even after I shared it with you. I suspect that you'll need to be saved yourself before you understand it - even though it's real simple. Get real - being a peaceful Muslim does NOT mean that he or she is Saved.

 

[Krsto]

Romans 10:17 KJV So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:8-10 KJV But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

I agree.

 

[Krsto]

Like I said - I hope that you're not in the ministry. You're not just confused - you don't have a clue. You don't know what the Gospel of the Grace of God is - even after I shared it with you. I suspect that you'll need to be saved yourself before you understand it - even though it's real simple. Get real - being a peaceful Muslim does NOT mean that he or she is Saved.

You are confused because you don't know what they meant by "salvation" in the 1st century. You think it means, "going to heaven." It doesn't. In the 1st century the Jews thought it would mean "deliverance from oppressive Rome" and Jesus failed to meet their expectations. In fact, said the Romans would destroy their temple. Kinda disappointing I would think. What Jesus came to save them from was their sin. Primarily the temporal effects of their sin. He wanted to give them "righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit" by cleansing them of their sins, i.e., changing their inward nature to be more like Christ's so they would sin less. I think you are confusing salvation with inheriting eternal life, which Jesus said how to do: love God and love man. Stop being wicked, IOW.

 

[journey]

Perfect fear casts out all love, as they say. Did you know Jesus can change that for you? Actually help you to love people? The awesome thing about the Gospel is that when Jesus says things like "love your neighbor" and "love your enemies, and do good to them," and "overcome evil with good" (or was that Paul?) he doesn't just leave it at that. He also gives POWER to accomplish it. That's why he said "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand." The power of the Kingdom is here now so that when you turn from your sin you are given an ability to overcome your sins, not just be forgiven of them. It was an invitation, not an ultimatum. Grace will revolutionize your life my friend. It's not just a theological construct.

Do you really think this is the Gospel of the Grace of God? Your confusion is almost total, and it doesn't appear that you have ears to hear. In other words - I'm wasting my time except for others who will read this. "Repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand." - was taught to the Jews and pertained to the Millennial Kingdom on earth (The Thousand Year Reign of Christ). This time is obviously future because Jesus Christ isn't ruling and reigning over the earth YET. He WILL after His Second Coming. I'm almost sure that you don't understand a thing I just said to you.

 

[elohiym]

I think this comes down to the terms and conditions written into the greatest commandments, love your neighbours, (except the Muslims )

Love and pray for your enemies ( except the Muslims )

See how the Bible starts to make sense, when you read the exclusion clauses.

Matthew 10:13 "If the house is worthy, give it your blessing of peace. But if it is not worthy, take back your blessing of peace."

Why do you think Islam is worthy?

 

[journey]

You are confused because you don't know what they meant by "salvation" in the 1st century. You think it means, "going to heaven." It doesn't. In the 1st century the Jews thought it would mean "deliverance from oppressive Rome" and Jesus failed to meet their expectations. In fact, said the Romans would destroy their temple. Kinda disappointing I would think. What Jesus came to save them from was their sin. Primarily the temporal effects of their sin. He wanted to give them "righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit" by cleansing them of their sins, i.e., changing their inward nature to be more like Christ's so they would sin less. I think you are confusing salvation with inheriting eternal life, which Jesus said how to do: love God and love man. Stop being wicked, IOW.

Get real - ALL I've talked about is the Gospel of the Grace of God, and you apparently don't know what that is. I'm not confusing anything and am still talking about the same thing - The Gospel of the Grace of God. I'm beginning to think that you're an actor here playing with Christians.

 

[elohiym]

Is it true that the penalty for leaving Islam is death? Can a woman decide she no longer believes the Quran and leave the religion without fear of reprisal?

No answers?

 

[Lon]

Most Muslim scholars and Muslims would take exception to your broad brushing. Your view of Islam I think is very similar to the view ISIS has, and just as perverted. Learning about what radicals do is not making you an informed person, it just confirms your bias.

If you want to be blind, fine. Polls taken show 80% approval with 20% of those not being entirely sure of support of/for Isis by all Muslims. You can question statistics but this is no perversion. You have a bias that you won't let go of. I gave you a challenge to choose one Christian in prison, perhaps one even sentenced to death, just for converting to Christianity. You need to rise to the challenge. Come back and talk to me in a year. Actually show you love someone persecuted beside your selfish opinion and self-interest. Come talk to me in a year in this thread after you've done that. I 'used' to think you at least had a head on your shoulders that was capable of some discernment. I suppose it continues to go with the territory of just another in a long line of poor-choices, poor thinking, poor conclusions and stance....

 

[OCTOBER23]

ALLAH GAVE MOHAMMED PERMISSION TO LIE AND DECEIVE AND BREAK HIS PEACE COVENANT AND TAKE THE BOOTY AFTER DESTROYING THEM.

SO MUCH FOR ALLAH AND MOHAMMED

This will happen again with the Antichrist when he breaks his covenant and turns on Israel

in the near future at the second half of the 7 year Tribulation.