Anybody know much about Islam?

[Krsto]

I think the answer you are looking for is no.

So far a lot of ignorant opinions but there's always a chance...

 

[Krsto]

yes i do,as when i was searching which religion was true,i wanted to know which manuscripts were reliable,and i was shocked how weak the quran is.

From a manuscript standpoint I think what we have is more authentic than Christian scriptures but the problems arise in determining which hadith are reliable and once having done that how to practically apply everything Mo said to our daily modern lives. So far I have much respect for their scholars and believe Islam would do better if factions stuck to this scholarship (ISIS certainly doesn't) and even better if they took all hadith with a grain of salt and didn't elevate any of the companions to the level of infallibility like we tend to do with our New Testament writers.

 

[elohiym]

Is it true that the penalty for leaving Islam is death? Can a woman decide she no longer believes the Quran and leave the religion without fear of reprisal?

 

[Krsto]

Galatians 1 KJV
(6) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
(7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
(8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

I don't need to render judgement on the angels who supposedly spoke to Mo (it could very well be he made it all up) before I can appreciate the tenor of his message which was to turn pagans and apostate Christians and Jews toward reverence for God alone - and I think a lot of Muslims would do well to follow that message as well. They have turned Mo into an idol and I think he would be aghast at what Islam has become. As for the angels preaching a different Gospel, I don't think they preached a gospel at all so it can't really be a different one. The problems come with trying to apply what he said to all of life's situations - the same problems we as Christians have. Both get rather legalistic about it. If Jesus can be summed up in "love your neighbor as yourself" then Mo could be summed up with "do justice". Problem is, religious leaders (including Paul) are never content to leave it at that. They always want to spell that out for everybody rather than leaving it to personal discretion. Fortunately for us Christians we do have a stronger emphasis on character change apart from rules and regulations. I think the Sufi's do as well and Muslims have much to learn from them.

 

[Krsto]

Luke 12 KJV
(51) Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

And this justifies what, exactly? That was spoken in the context of relatives turning against those who decide to follow Christ, as I recall. To use this to say Jesus wants there to be war between Christians or Western nations and Muslims or Muslim nations, if that's what you're implying, is pathetic. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[Krsto]

You certainly do. Be better informed, these are 'average' everyday run-o-the-mill Muslims doing this very 'normal' business as usual as well as ISIS/extremists. Difference? They weren't all killed, didn't all see justice, didn't all escape prison for simply 'being' Christian. When Christians are being slaughtered, imprisoned, fined, abused, and in every way oppressed, you can't call that confirmation bias.

Take this challenge: Read just one story about a Christian, right now, in prison, and follow that person and pray for them, in a Muslim cell, either until they are released, or are dead. Notice that it is the 'normal everyday' Muslim and government that supports their incarceration and most often, death sentence, if they are indigenous. These are the normal everyday, run-of-the-mill Muslims, when they have control of a country.

Most Muslim scholars and Muslims would take exception to your broad brushing. Your view of Islam I think is very similar to the view ISIS has, and just as perverted. Learning about what radicals do is not making you an informed person, it just confirms your bias.

 

[Tambora]

I don't need to render judgement on the angels who supposedly spoke to Mo (it could very well be he made it all up) before I can appreciate the tenor of his message which was to turn pagans and apostate Christians and Jews toward reverence for God alone - and I think a lot of Muslims would do well to follow that message as well. They have turned Mo into an idol and I think he would be aghast at what Islam has become. As for the angels preaching a different Gospel, I don't think they preached a gospel at all so it can't really be a different one. The problems come with trying to apply what he said to all of life's situations - the same problems we as Christians have. Both get rather legalistic about it. If Jesus can be summed up in "love your neighbor as yourself" then Mo could be summed up with "do justice". Problem is, religious leaders (including Paul) are never content to leave it at that. They always want to spell that out for everybody rather than leaving it to personal discretion. Fortunately for us Christians we do have a stronger emphasis on character change apart from rules and regulations. I think the Sufi's do as well and Muslims have much to learn from them.

It's not just about angels, but ANYONE that preaches another gospel.

Islam preaches a gospel that denies God has a Son, and that His Son was bodily resurrected.
That is in direct opposition of Christianity.

supposedly spoke to Mo (it could very well be he made it all up)

If that is what you believe, then you could just as easily chunk the entire bible.
So what do you even base your "Christianity" on?????

 

[Tambora]

And this justifies what, exactly? That was spoken in the context of relatives turning against those who decide to follow Christ, as I recall. To use this to say Jesus wants there to be war between Christians or Western nations and Muslims or Muslim nations, if that's what you're implying, is pathetic. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God.

The whole bible is about division.
There is supposed to be division.
You not wanting that division is going against God's word.

 

[Krsto]

To find out about these religions look at the nations where they are the overwhelming force, where they have the power and the influence.

I have, and it's a mixed bag. Problem is, you will find very few, if any leaders of Muslim nations that actually follow principles of justice according to the Quran. For the most part the Arab nations have not been allowed since the fall of the Ottoman Empire to govern themselves according to Islamic Law. Their borders were determined by Western colonial interests, not themselves, and their leaders have been bitches for the Western nations. Khadafi, Saddam Hussein, bin Laden, and ISIS were all our bitches at one time. If they operated according to Quranic principles of judgement they would be much more socialistic and the Saudi royal family would not be hording the nation's wealth while your average Saudi lives in poverty, for example, and the tourist mecca of the UAE would not be built with zero regard for the safety and welfare of the expat workers. Nations that were ruled according to Islamic principles were the ones that welcomed and protected Jews while the Christian nations were trying to kill them off.

 

[Totton Linnet]

I think you are far from home friend......I have allus thought so

 

[Krsto]

You will find quite a lot of ignorance here. Too many here "know" that Islam is evil, but couldn't tell you the difference between Shiites and Sunnis. Did I mention Sufis?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdi-it43j30

You mean they couldn't tell me the reason why there is a difference, and what precipitated that difference. They are just as ignorant about Islam as a Muslim is about Christianity who doesn't know why there are Protestants and Catholics, or Catholics and Orthodox (OK, most Christians don't even know that). Maybe I should require a very basic knowledge test before allowing anyone to comment here. I doubt Tot, Pat Jane, Journey, Cherub, Tam, Lon, or Chrys even know what a Hadith is, yet they feel free to comment about Islam like they actually know something about it.

 

[Krsto]

You make excuses for Muslims, does that mean you think their crimes are justified?

I think the point that needs to be made here is that us in the West have a nasty habit of demonizing people who should be considered Iraqi Patriots and Freedom Fighters. We call them "insurgents" so feel free to kill them off. And we wonder why they hate us so and fly planes into our buildings. So yes, I will justify the women and children the American Sniper killed if you are going to justify the American colonists shooting at Redcoats. It's no different, in fact, Britain treated our colonists far better than we have treated Iraqis.

I suggest hearing from a US Marine who used to kill Iraqis then got a conscience. He's now involved in efforts to help the people he was trying to kill: http://thefallujahproject.org/home/

 

[Krsto]

I have read a lot about islam

would you like a list of the books?

Thanks Chrys. I've got plenty of books to read. I was looking for a "live" expert to field questions.

 

[brewmama]

Most Muslim scholars and Muslims would take exception to your broad brushing. Your view of Islam I think is very similar to the view ISIS has, and just as perverted. Learning about what radicals do is not making you an informed person, it just confirms your bias.

How do you know which "scholars" to listen to, and which to ignore? There are plenty of imams, experts and scholars who insist that killing infidels, sharia law, stoning and beheading for apostasy/homosexuality/dishonor/etc. are all according to what Mohammed deemed correct and true.

 

[Krsto]

I hear it's the religion of peace.

Near as I can tell.

 

[Krsto]

I think you are far from home friend......I have allus thought so

Farther from your home, closer to Jesus. Thanks for your concern.

 

[Krsto]

How do you know which "scholars" to listen to, and which to ignore? There are plenty of imams, experts and scholars who insist that killing infidels, sharia law, stoning and beheading for apostasy/homosexuality/dishonor/etc. are all according to what Mohammed deemed correct and true.

Well then they wouldn't have much credibility with me because even a newbie like me knows Mohammad never issued any punishments for homosexuality and killing infidels was only in the context of self defense so isn't saying anything materially different than our Constitution which also promotes self-defense.

 

[brewmama]

You mean they couldn't tell me the reason why there is a difference, and what precipitated that difference. They are just as ignorant about Islam as a Muslim is about Christianity who doesn't know why there are Protestants and Catholics, or Catholics and Orthodox (OK, most Christians don't even know that). Maybe I should require a very basic knowledge test before allowing anyone to comment here. I doubt Tot, Pat Jane, Journey, Cherub, Tam, Lon, or Chrys even know what a Hadith is, yet they feel free to comment about Islam like they actually know something about it.

Why should we know or care what the difference is between a Shiite or Sunni, when it stems from some familial dispute from Mohammed's family, and they BOTH want us dead, whether it's the Shia Iran or the Sunni ISIS. When we read almost daily about the atrocities committed by everyday Muslims in almost every Islamic country, why do you think we are totally ignorant about Islam?

 

[brewmama]

Well then they wouldn't have much credibility with me because even a newbie like me knows Mohammad never issued any punishments for homosexuality and killing infidels was only in the context of self defense so isn't saying anything materially different than our Constitution which also promotes self-defense.

Now I know you're just a joke.

 

[Tambora]

I doubt Tot, Pat Jane, Journey, Cherub, Tam, Lon, or Chrys even know what a Hadith is, yet they feel free to comment about Islam like they actually know something about it.

Then your assumption would be wrong.
Islam has differing sects that disagree with each other on some principles. (Shiites and Sunnis)
They disagree on the succession of Imans and the caliphate.

It's all be covered here on TOL before.
Just because some do not want to spell it all out again does not mean they are uninformed.
Especially to one like yourself that has already assumed that you know more about it than others.