marhig
Well-known member
No Paul preached the gospel to the gentiles. The gospel of God that Jesus preached. God doesn't change. There's one gospel of God not two, I won't be responding to you again about this. It's clear we don't agree.
Another wolf is marked/exposed/identified.
- Thread starter john w
- Start date
popsthebuilder
New member
So if the gentile is grafted in the they are Jew through the Spirit.
And if one abides by the Spirit and is grafted into the same One vine, then how is it that you say they are some separate set of people who don't have to abide by the law of the Spirit in Truth?
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drbrumley
Well-known member
What's the vine Pops?
popsthebuilder
New member
BoC
Are you asking because you don't know or because you thought I didn't?
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glorydaz
Well-known member
You don't.
popsthebuilder
New member
So to you the Vine isn't a reference to the body of Christ?
Interesting.
What do you think it is?
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popsthebuilder
New member
Those not grafted in are part of the Vine; sure, but not the limit, or whole of it.
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glorydaz
Well-known member
Which has nothing to do with your claim that the vine is the body of Christ.
drbrumley
Well-known member
This is probably the best explanation I have seen regarding the gospel. I agree with this 100%.
It appears that there have been overstatements on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, it is contended dogmatically that there is but one Gospel in the Bible, and on the other hand dispensationalists argue just as dogmatically that there are several gospels in the Bible. The misunderstanding appears to arise largely from the use of the word gospel. Some use the word gospel as the equivalent of how to be saved. they argue, and rightly so, that no one has been saved by his own works; that salvation in every dispensation has been by God's grace, but they contend that dispensationalists argue for salvation by works for those in a former dispensation because they say there is more than one gospel. This is simply a conclusion drawn which is contrary to the positive statements of dispensationalists. Practically all dispensationalists believe that salvation in every dispensation has been based upon faith in the revealed Word of God, but since they believe that the Bible presents a progressive revelation they must of necessity contend that men in former generations did not possess the totality of revelation which is contained in the New Testament epistles. Therefore there has been a change from time to time in the content of the message which was the object of faith. As pointed out, the content of the gospel of the kingdom which was preached by the apostles during the earthly ministry of Christ was completely devoid of the teaching that Christ would die for the sins of the world, be buried, and rise again the third day. And yet that is the heart of gospel preaching in this dispensation. And even more evident is the fact that in Old Testament times faith demanded that men bring animal sacrifices, a practice which is expressly forbidden in God's message for today.
It appears that there have been overstatements on both sides of this issue. On the one hand, it is contended dogmatically that there is but one Gospel in the Bible, and on the other hand dispensationalists argue just as dogmatically that there are several gospels in the Bible. The misunderstanding appears to arise largely from the use of the word gospel. Some use the word gospel as the equivalent of how to be saved. they argue, and rightly so, that no one has been saved by his own works; that salvation in every dispensation has been by God's grace, but they contend that dispensationalists argue for salvation by works for those in a former dispensation because they say there is more than one gospel. This is simply a conclusion drawn which is contrary to the positive statements of dispensationalists. Practically all dispensationalists believe that salvation in every dispensation has been based upon faith in the revealed Word of God, but since they believe that the Bible presents a progressive revelation they must of necessity contend that men in former generations did not possess the totality of revelation which is contained in the New Testament epistles. Therefore there has been a change from time to time in the content of the message which was the object of faith. As pointed out, the content of the gospel of the kingdom which was preached by the apostles during the earthly ministry of Christ was completely devoid of the teaching that Christ would die for the sins of the world, be buried, and rise again the third day. And yet that is the heart of gospel preaching in this dispensation. And even more evident is the fact that in Old Testament times faith demanded that men bring animal sacrifices, a practice which is expressly forbidden in God's message for today.
popsthebuilder
New member
Sure it does.
The Vine is comprised of the faithful towards GOD.
That would include the natural branches(faithful/ Jew/ abide by the law of the Spirit), and the gentile who is grafted in through circumcision of the Spirit effectively becoming the faithful towards GOD/ believers/ those who abide by the law of the Spirit and who's abode is the kingdom of GOD.
Zechariah 3: 8. Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH. 9. For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. 10. In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.
Zechariah 4: 6. Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. 12. And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 14. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.
Zechariah 6: 12. And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: 13. Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both. 14. And the crowns shall be to Helem, and to Tobijah, and to Jedaiah, and to Hen the son of Zephaniah, for a memorial in the temple of the LORD. 15. And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
Ezekiel 15: 6. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; As the vine tree among the trees of the forest, which I have given to the fire for fuel, so will I give the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 7. And I will set my face against them; they shall go out from one fire, and another fire shall devour them; and ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I set my face against them.
John 15: 1. I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9. As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10. If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 11. These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full. 12. This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. 13. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. 14. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. 15. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. 16. Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17. These things I command you, that ye love one another. 18. If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. 19. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. 20. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. 21. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. 22. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. 23. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. 24. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. 25. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. 26. But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27. And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
(Vine- Christ)
(Do you still disagree friend??)
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popsthebuilder
New member
Ephesians 6: 4. And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. 5. Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; 6. Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; 7. With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: 8. Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. 9. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him. 10. Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15. And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16. Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 18. Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; 19. And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, 20. For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. 21. But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things: 22. Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and that he might comfort your hearts. 23. Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 24. Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.
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marhig
Well-known member
Yes the vine is Israel and the body of Christ, so that means those gentiles grafted in are grafted into Israel, thus they were lost sheep, but now they are found brought in by the word of God through the gospel through Christ.
There are even atheists in natural Israel and those who don't have true faith. So the true Israel isn't those who are circumcised of the flesh only, but those circumcised of the heart being made a Jew inwardly by the circumcision not made with hands but by the Spirit of God.
These are spiritual Israel, and what I mean by that, is those made a Jew inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit by the inward circumcision of the heart. (both jew and gentile)
And once we are born of God and are circumcised of the heart and begin to live by the will of God and we become a part of the body of Christ which is the true Israel (previously Jew and gentile) walking in the Spirit, living by faith and loving God with all there hearts and loving their neighbour as themselves, worshipping God in Spirit and in truth. This is the body of Christ, they are Jews inwardly and they are the true Israel.
There are even atheists in natural Israel and those who don't have true faith. So the true Israel isn't those who are circumcised of the flesh only, but those circumcised of the heart being made a Jew inwardly by the circumcision not made with hands but by the Spirit of God.
These are spiritual Israel, and what I mean by that, is those made a Jew inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit by the inward circumcision of the heart. (both jew and gentile)
And once we are born of God and are circumcised of the heart and begin to live by the will of God and we become a part of the body of Christ which is the true Israel (previously Jew and gentile) walking in the Spirit, living by faith and loving God with all there hearts and loving their neighbour as themselves, worshipping God in Spirit and in truth. This is the body of Christ, they are Jews inwardly and they are the true Israel.
popsthebuilder
New member
Can I add that they are bondservants to the Lord?
Is that redundant?
Great post by the way; your eloquence is an aspiration for me.
peace
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marhig
Well-known member
Do you mean the body of Christ? If so then yes we are. We are to be unprofitable servants, living sacrifices, ready to do the will of God. Jesus said our time is always to be ready.
I was thinking about walking in the Spirit pops, and I thought about my life, and how that I have God on my mind most of the time, as in how to please him, and I think first before I do things whether they are right or wrong before him, and I listen to my conscience and ponder on what I've read or heard all because Christ has changed my heart. And I thought this is walking in the Spirit, being guided daily by God in our hearts ready to serve him and do his will, and this is truly following Jesus, this is being a servant but with amazing benefits, to have the love of God and the peace in my heart that comes with his love is priceless, and nothing in this world compares to it, it's so strong that it reaches out everywhere, God in our heart sees the need in others, much more than we would if we were still walking in our flesh, we can't keep his love hidden, we care for everyone.
And I was also thinking about Jacob (Israel) and how he opened up the wells, and I thought that this happens in our hearts once we hear God's word and believe, the dust of the flesh is cleared from our hearts and they are opened up to release the fountains of living water to spring up from the depths of our hearts to bring forth this living word of God through Christ.
We are Spiritual Israel pops, and those that belong to Christ bring the living word of God that springs up from within our hearts to others, hoping they will listen and be cleansed by Christ, ready to be a vessel filled and washed with the water of the word, ready to live by the will of God and give to those who are thirsty for it. And thus the wells are opening in the hearts of those sheep who hear the voice of Christ as the word of God is shared by Christ Jesus through the Spirit as his church share the gospel of God with those wanting to hear the truth.
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1.No-already did-poor 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV, 1 Cor. 2:14 lost one.
2. Chapter, verse, in the book, that requires I answer any/all questions, especially from blind, lost people, such as yourself.
glorydaz
Well-known member
The Vine is not the Body of Christ, and none of those verses say it is.
opcorn:
glorydaz
Well-known member
There is nothing worse than wolf pups who have convinced themselves they are sheep. They try to bleat like sheep, but they stick their noses into the air and howl like all wolves do. :chuckle:
marhig
Well-known member
No, you didn't answer me, and those verses don't answer my question either. And you don't have to answer me, but if you believe something so deeply, then surely you should want to explain clearly to those who ask?
1 peter 3
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: