ECT All Things Are Lawful For Me

[Interplanner]

You sure got that wrong when you said our righteousness plays no part in our salvation.

In Jesus, I become the righteousness of God. See 2 Corinthians 5:21.

My righteousness, holiness, and redemption come from Jesus Christ. See 1 Corinthians 1:30.

I have the righteousness from God, righteousness by faith; see Romans 1:17.

We have righteousness from God through faith in Jesus because we believe, see Romans 3:22.

Our obedience leads us to righteousness see Romans 6:16.

We are righteous because we obey the perfect law see Romans 2:13.

We do what is right; therefore, we are righteous see 1 John 3:12.

The righteous requirements of the law are fully met in me and all those saved, those who live according to the Spirit, See Romans 8:4.

Righteous acts see Revelation 19:8

We are to offer the parts of our body to Him as instruments of righteousness. Romans 6:13

We are under control of righteousness Romans 6:20

We are to live a righteous life James 1:20

Righteous for what we do James 2:21, 25

GT,
You have misunderstood 2 Cor 5:21. It is saying that a righteousness is needed but also saying precisely that it is not your own. It is not what your experience becomes either, because imputation is not an experience. It is credit. Someone else's experience (see Is 53 on the Servant's experience) is credited against your debt, which is why the financial term 'reconciliation' is used in 2 Cor 5, as in 'reconciling accounts.'

However, you are correct that this must be believed throughout one's life. Col 1 says we must hold onto this to the end. And your Hebrews passage is saying, especially to 1st century Jewish believers, that they must hold on to Christ at all risks because to go back to Judaism is to crucify Christ again.

 

[God's Truth]

GT,
You have misunderstood 2 Cor 5:21.

You are the one misunderstanding. Show me where I have not said Jesus sanctifies us and makes us righteous. In fact, I put scriptures saying that very thing.

Before you falsely accuse someone of not understanding you should be more careful.

It is saying that a righteousness is needed but also saying precisely that it is not your own.

That means Jesus saved us all on his own, it is his blood that cleans us, it is him doing the cleaning, it is him reconciling us to God. HOWEVER, we still had to have living faith. He still chooses whom he wants to save. You are not a Calvinist are you? Maybe you are a faith only believer. We have to have living faith, and that means faith by itself is dead.

It is not what your experience becomes either, because imputation is not an experience. It is credit.

You need to explain that better.

Someone else's experience (see Is 53 on the Servant's experience) is credited against your debt, which is why the financial term 'reconciliation' is used in 2 Cor 5, as in 'reconciling accounts.'

It sounds as if you need help understanding reconciliation better.

Jesus reconciles us to God. That means God lives inside us and we live inside him.

How is it you go against my saying that?

However, you are correct that this must be believed throughout one's life. Col 1 says we must hold onto this to the end. And your Hebrews passage is saying, especially to 1st century Jewish believers, that they must hold on to Christ at all risks because to go back to Judaism is to crucify Christ again.

I am glad you understand something that I said. However, tell me how you can be so confused about reconciliation and faith without nothing else. In addition, tell me how you missed all those scriptures I gave on how we have to do righteous things to be saved and to stay saved.

 

[God's Truth]

You sure got that wrong when you said our righteousness plays no part in our salvation.

In Jesus, I become the righteousness of God. See 2 Corinthians 5:21.

My righteousness, holiness, and redemption come from Jesus Christ. See 1 Corinthians 1:30.

I have the righteousness from God, righteousness by faith; see Romans 1:17.

We have righteousness from God through faith in Jesus because we believe, see Romans 3:22.

Our obedience leads us to righteousness see Romans 6:16.

We are righteous because we obey the perfect law see Romans 2:13.

We do what is right; therefore, we are righteous see 1 John 3:12.

The righteous requirements of the law are fully met in me and all those saved, those who live according to the Spirit, See Romans 8:4.

Righteous acts see Revelation 19:8

We are to offer the parts of our body to Him as instruments of righteousness. Romans 6:13

We are under control of righteousness Romans 6:20

We are to live a righteous life James 1:20

Righteous for what we do James 2:21, 25

Interplanner, show which of these scripture that you think I got wrong.

 

[God's Truth]

You cannot cut out any scripture, not even one.

You cannot lean to the left or to the right of God's word.

You cannot subtract and you cannot add.

You must consult the full counsel of God.

The Bible PLAINLY says that Jesus makes us righteous by HIS BLOOD CLEANING US.

The Bible PLAINLY says that we do NOT ACCESS that grace unless we have faith.

The Bible plainly says that faith by itself without right action IS DEAD and CANNOT SAVE ANYONE.

The Bible plainly says that we have to do something and that Jesus saves those who obey.

So many have fallen for the false teaching of faith alone.

Think for a moment of the teachings of faith alone.

The false teachers say faith alone and then confuse people about when and how to obey.

It is insanity.

 

[Interplanner]

Interplanner, show which of these scripture that you think I got wrong.

Do you understand what imputation--crediting--reckoning is? The Greek term is 'logizo' and is from bookkeeping. It has to do with debt.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You sure got that wrong when you said our righteousness plays no part in our salvation.

Do you deny that it did not play a role in Paul's salvation?:

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faithfulness of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" (Phil.3:9).​

 

[God's Truth]

People are so blind to righteousness that is not our own, and they preach how if we obey Jesus in any way that it is our righteousness that we are relying on.

What a mess from the one who confuses and wants you to not obey Jesus.

Jesus saves us all on his own. That means he alone cleans us. He alone sanctifies us and reconciles us to God. That does NOT mean we do not have to do anything. That does not put our obedience into a state of error and sin.

NONSENSE, for it is NEVER EVER wrong to obey God; and, it is some kind of twisted theology to claim our obeying must be put in check. What insanity, just like Peter says before he warns us to obey.

 

[God's Truth]

Do you understand what imputation--crediting--reckoning is? The Greek term is 'logizo' and is from bookkeeping. It has to do with debt.

I do understand exactly what it means.

You are the one who is going by the teachings and misunderstanding of false teachers.

Do not back down from me on this.

Let us discuss this further. You might come to see that your mind has been conditioned to believe and teach a major falseness that Satan would love---and that is to believe that you obeying Jesus is stepping on his toes and condemning you to hell.

For goodness sake, repent of this madness.

 

[musterion]

Dead is dead.

No law, no trespass.

Law is "do/do not."

Grace is "you know what is right, you can do what's right, so you should do what's right."

That's one thing the LDS have that I appreciate -- they have these cute little rings and tie tacks that say CTR..."Choose The Right." Paul was all about the believer knowing and choosing that which is right over that which they know is not right. That's grace. That's absolutely now how Law operates. Law is "...or else."

(problem is the Mormons have no true power to do so. But those in Christ do.)

 

[God's Truth]

Do you deny that it did not play a role in Paul's salvation?:

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faithfulness of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" (Phil.3:9).​

Paul is explaining that how, he, and millions of Jews for over 1,600 years have done certain works on their own to clean themselves, just to sanctify/justify/clean themselves before God.

Since Jesus, we do not have to do all those works to clean ourselves, we do not have to do works to clean ourselves, we do not have to do works on our own to clean ourselves.

That means we do not have to do the purification/ceremonial works to clean ourselves.

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

Did you read all those WORKS that the people had to do to clean themselves?

Those are the works that no longer save.

Jesus' blood shed on the cross is what cleans us.

WE. STILL. HAVE. TO. OBEY. GOD.

We still have to abstain from evil and do right.

We. just. do. not. have. to. get. circumcised. and. do. the. other. works. to. clean. ourselves.

We have God's written Word to check out. We do not have to merely go by some teacher claiming to have the truth. We no longer have to go to a man to get the written word because we did not have our own copy.

We will be held accountable.

 

[musterion]

WE. STILL. HAVE. TO. OBEY. GOD.

Or else...what? Be specific, be blunt.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

God only gives His Spirit and understanding to those who obey.

Again, you deny the things which are "freely" given to us.

You also deny the fact that the Spirit comes to those who believe:

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal.3:1-3).​

Here we see that the Spirit is received by faith. According to your foolish ideas no one can receive the Spirit except by obeying, which is something which is done through the flesh.

 

[God's Truth]

Dead is dead.

No law, no trespass.

Law is "do/do not."

Grace is "you know what is right, you can do what's right, so you should do what's right."

That's one thing the LDS have that I appreciate -- they have these cute little rings and tie tacks that say CTR..."Choose The Right." Paul was all about the believer knowing and choosing that which is right over that which they know is not right. That's grace. That's absolutely now how Law operates. Law is "...or else."

(problem is the Mormons have no true power to do so. But those in Christ do.)

Mormons do NOT do what is right.

Mormons believed what an angel taught them and they did not heed Galatians 1:8.

We have to obey everything we are taught in the Bible.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Paul is explaining that how, he, and millions of Jews for over 1,600 years have done certain works on their own to clean themselves, just to sanctify/justify/clean themselves before God.

Of course you refuse to answer my question. Do you deny that Paul's own righteousness played a role in his salvation?:

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faithfulness of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" (Phil.3:9).​

 

[God's Truth]

Of course you refuse to answer my question. Do you deny that Paul's own righteousness played a role in his salvation?:

I have been answering you, but you have to go deeper to escape the false teachings that have taken over your heart and mind.

"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,​

Did you read how Paul says not having his own righteousness WHICH IS OF THE LAW?

That is about HOW THE JEWS USED TO HAVE to make/work at making THEMSELVES righteous before God, they got circumcised and did the other purification/ceremonial works. THAT IS HOW THE LAW said to do it...

but that which is through the faithfulness of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith"

(Phil.3:9).

...Then Jesus came along and said that is no longer how you will be righteous before God.

Now those under the law cannot get righteous by doing THOSE works anymore, now all Jews and even now Gentiles can get righteousness/sanctified by merely having LIVING FAITH---that is believing that Jesus' blood clean us of the sins WE REPENT OF DOING.

 

[God's Truth]

Or else...what? Be specific, be blunt.

What do you think happens to people who do not obey God? What does the Bible say?

 

[musterion]

We have to obey everything we are taught in the Bible.

So sell all you have and give the money to the poor.

 

[musterion]

What do you think happens to people who do not obey God? What does the Bible say?

Not playing your games anymore.

I asked what YOU think will happen. If you don't want to say, or don't know, then stay silent.

 

[God's Truth]

So sell all you have and give the money to the poor.

Show the scripture where Jesus tells everyone in the world to sell all they have and give it to the poor.

You cannot do that. You are like the devil who accuses and goes against those who do obey Jesus.

 

[musterion]

Show the scripture where Jesus tells everyone in the world to sell all they have and give it to the poor.

Show the Scripture that says,

We have to obey everything we are taught in the Bible.