ECT All Things Are Lawful For Me

[God's Truth]

Why is it painful to you to discuss scripture.
Scripture says Judas repented.
You say when he repented it was too late.
You have yet to give an adequate reason why his repentance was TOO LATE when he repented.

You keep acting like you are going to prove something and you never say it. Are you hesitant to say what you believe?

It was not too late for Judas to repent of his sin. He could have repented but he would have to believe he would be forgiven. He went to the chief priest and didn't go to Jesus. He killed himself, which is not obeying.

 

[meshak]

I was agreeing with you.

:chuckle: :doh:

You just said Judas repented. According to the verse you quoted he was remorseful.

Remorseful is not repent.

 

[Derf]

Yes, you are changing the subject. Instead of talking about what the Scriptures say about eternal security you want to talk about what I would do in regard to a hypothetical situation which has nothing at all to do with eternal security.

You just refuse to face the fact that the Lord Jesus said that those to whom He gives eternal life shall never perish.

It has much to do with eternal security. The purpose of discussions about eternal security are to determine, before we die, whether we will live again in Christ Jesus--to give assurance to the believer. Your OP was asking whether the "all things are lawful for me" verses have something to do with eternal security.

If all things are lawful for all those who believe, and Judas was a believer, then even betraying the Lord Jesus was lawful for him. If he was not a believer, then it was better that he should not have been born. But in terms of people using their common sense to determine if they have eternal life, there seem to be one thing we need to check: do we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? How do we check that??

Judas is an extreme case, and extreme cases are helpful in determining universal truth. If it applies in the extreme cases, then it more likely applies in all the cases in between the extreme cases.

So, with the purpose of discussions about eternal security being to either affirm or deny our eternal destiny, and eternal destiny riding on our belief in Jesus Christ, what does "belief in Jesus Christ" really entail?

We know that the demons believe and tremble--they know the truth about Jesus and believe it to be true, but it does them no eternal good. Why? I would suggest that it is because of a couple of things. 1. That it doesn't apply to them (no salvation is available to them), and 2. because they are not willing to do the will of God. Based on those two things, their destiny is the lake of fire.

What was the problem Adam and Eve encountered? They stepped outside the will of God when they ate of the the wrong tree.

What is it that God desires of His people? to be in His will.

What did Jesus teach us to pray? "God's will be done."

What did Jesus pray in the Garden? "Not my will but thine be done."

Why are there no adulterers and thieves and murderers and revilers, etc., etc. in the Kingdom of God? Because they don't do the will of God.

The whole purpose, as far as I can tell, of God when He created this world was to have a people that love him and are willing to submit to His authority. We can talk all day long about WHY God wants this, but if God is willing for anyone to do anything they want, that doesn't mean there is NO law. It means we are subjecting God to OUR law--i.e., everyone doing what is right in his own eyes.

So if everything is lawful, how is it that God wants so badly for people to obey Him? I'd say that the two things, belief in Jesus that is salvific and being willing to obey (though not necessarily able), are not exclusive, but two sides of the same coin.

 

[Derf]

If anyone has to examine themselves, then it means they are not saved.

The saved live through Jesus, and that is done by obeying Jesus.

If you have to examine yourself to see something, then you were not living as you should and need to receive the Holy Spirit.

How would one know he is obeying Jesus if he doesn't examine himself? Lack of examination would obviate the need to repent, since one wouldn't know if one needs to repent without some examination.

Those that don't have the Holy Spirit are susceptible to being deceived, I would think, so their examination might be of little benefit.

 

[Nihilo]

. . . do we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ? How do we check that??

Do you mean, How do we check if we really believe in Him, or if we're just kidding or joking? Because I would assume that anybody who knows they're only pretending to believe in the Lord Jesus already knows they don't believe, so there's no need for anybody to wonder how such a person would "check" on whether they really believe in Him.

So it must be how to check that we're not just joking when we think we believe in Him?

 

[Derf]

Do you mean, How do we check if we really believe in Him, or if we're just kidding or joking? Because I would assume that anybody who knows they're only pretending to believe in the Lord Jesus already knows they don't believe, so there's no need for anybody to wonder how such a person would "check" on whether they really believe in Him.

So it must be how to check that we're not just joking when we think we believe in Him?

There seems to be a type of belief that does not end in salvation. A great example is Simon in Acts 8.

Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. [Act 8:13 KJV]
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: [Act 8:14 KJV]
And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, [Act 8:18 KJV]
Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. [Act 8:19 KJV]
But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. [Act 8:20 KJV]
Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. [Act 8:21 KJV]
Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. [Act 8:22 KJV]​

I don't think Simon was "joking" or "pretending", although it's possible. The thing he requested of Peter wasn't even available through just Philip ("just", as if Philip--a man responsible for converting much of Ethiopia and Samaria!!--were of lesser worth than Peter and John) prior to Peter and John coming, so he probably didn't have that as a goal of his belief. But perhaps the miracles Philip was doing attracted him.

I've heard of other reasons for a false conversion. Trying to fit in with a group, or trying to justify staying "clean" despite a continuing bent toward a certain sin (remember Luther's complaint about indulgences, which even the Catholics recognized as a problem), or even just a "get-out-of-hell-free-card".

Peter's rather harsh rebuke of Simon should encourage us to see our need for repentance if we are continuing in any particular sin. Simon's belief was not enough to prevent his perishing, apparently. We can possibly assume that Simon had already RECEIVED the Holy Spirit, since he wasn't asking for THAT power. The power HE wanted was to be able to bestow the power of the Holy Spirit on others. (Vs. 19)

Notice also that Peter was not telling Simon to believe, which, since his former belief was not effective, presumably would have erased both past and present sins. Rather Peter was looking for a change of heart, as evidenced by a change of speech.

The suggestion here is that belief without repentance is worthless to keep one from perishing. The corollary of repentance without belief (as in the case of Judas) is also worthless to keep one from perishing.

If all of the foregoing is true, then the OP's premise that there is NO law that governs the believer is shown to be false.