ECT All Things Are Lawful For Me
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
The "necessary limitation" you accuse me of---I'm calling, name it.
Where you wrote "we're warned NOT TO flaunt it..."
By the way, this here...
1 Timothy 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
...is a CONTRAST between TWO bodily exercises - one ungodly, the other; Godly.
Just as this here is a contrast between the two...
2 Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. 2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. 2:6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.
As is this here...
1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Temperate in ALL things - freedom...within necessary limits.
This here, yes...
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
But it is freedom within necessary...limits...
5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
As one Mid-Acts Grace Based Pastor-Teacher is fond of putting it - "God didn't save you so you could continue to live anyway you want - you were doing that before He saved you - and you were doing a pretty good job of it; weren't you
"Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Not merely so called "Mid-Acts..."
Rather, Mid-Acts Pauline GRACE.
This here...
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
What was that that was committed unto him by the Lord Himself?
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
My favorite analogy of this was something I heard a long time ago.
Just because speed limit laws no longer apply to you does not mean that it is beneficial to drive 120 mph through a school zone.
Interplanner
Well-known member
Paul did whatever was necessary for the mission; a little more law in some cases, a little less in others. But never just stuck on law.
No, there is no connection about the imputation of Christ's righteousness to the type of situation addressed in Corinthians. I thought you knew the NT well enough to know that figuring out how to act in cross-cultural situations was different from a doctrinal passage on justification through Christ's righteousness.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So tell me what you think that the passages which I quoted from 1 Corinthians mean? What does Paul mean when he tells the Christian that "all things are lawful" for them.
And tell us how that could be possible.
TL;DR
'Wanna summarize it?
'Wanna summarize it?
Where you wrote "we're warned NOT TO flaunt it..."
By the way, this here...
1 Timothy 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. 4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.
...is a CONTRAST between TWO bodily exercises - one ungodly, the other; Godly.
Just as this here is a contrast between the two...
2 Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. 2:5 And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. 2:6 The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.
As is this here...
1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Temperate in ALL things - freedom...within necessary limits.
This here, yes...
Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
But it is freedom within necessary...limits...
5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
5:15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
As one Mid-Acts Grace Based Pastor-Teacher is fond of putting it - "God didn't save you so you could continue to live anyway you want - you were doing that before He saved you - and you were doing a pretty good job of it; weren't you
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Not merely so called "Mid-Acts..."
Rather, Mid-Acts Pauline GRACE.
This here...
Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
What was that that was committed unto him by the Lord Himself?
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
God's Truth
New member
Paul is speaking about the purification/ceremonial works. He is also talking about those from other religions.
Paul is explaining how in Christ we can eat meat, even meat once thought to be unclean (that is about the Jews); he is also talking about people who sacrificed meat to false gods (the Greeks and pagans); but we are to be mindful of those who think eating certain meat or eating any meat is sin. There are people who think drinking certain drinks is sin. We have to consider those who are not yet saved, or those who are not yet knowledgeable and have weak or no faith according to the new law.
When it comes to the Jews, Paul is explaining how the the old law of purification/ceremonial works no longer mean anything.
All to the Glory of God
23 All things are lawful 7for me, but not all things are lhelpful; all things are lawful 7for me, but not all things 8edify. 24 Let no one seek his own, but each one mthe other’s well-being.
25 nEat whatever is sold in the meat market, asking no questions for conscience’ sake; 26 for o“the earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness.”
27 If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, peat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience’ sake. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This was offered to idols,” do not eat it qfor the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience’ sake; 9for r“the earth is the Lord’s, and all its fullness.” 29 “Conscience,” I say, not your own, but that of the other. For swhy is my liberty judged by another man’s conscience? 30 But if I partake with thanks, why am I evil spoken of for the food tover which I give thanks?
31 uTherefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. 32 vGive no offense, either to the Jews or to the Greeks or to the church of God, 33 just was I also please all men in all things, not seeking my own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.
God's Truth
New member
What exactly do Christians think all is permissible for us means?
Paul is explaining that because they are under a new law, a new law that does not say we have to stone someone to death for committing adultery and other sexual sins---it does NOT mean it is okay to do those sexual sins. That is what Paul is explaining. Paul is explaining that since they are not under the old law that put people to death it does not mean it is okay to do those things.
Again, Paul is not saying he, and all Christians are allowed to do anything now, that is not what he is saying. He is explaining that since there is not a law for Christians, as there was in the old law that says we have to stone people to death for sexual sins---it does not mean that sexual sins is not against our new lives in Christ.
Christians do not have a dietary law to adhere to as the Jews did, except to abstain from food polluted by idols, and from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. However, since we do not have any law that says we will be cut off for eating certain animals…Paul explains how that is not reason to hurt someone else by your eating. For instance, if you are trying to preach the gospel to people who believe eating animals is wrong then you might hinder them from continuing in the truth if they see you eating meat; or a Jew might see you eating meat offered to false gods while you are trying to convert Greeks that are pagans. We are not to eat meat polluted by idols because then you are sharing in their meal to those false idols with them.
Paul is explaining that because they are under a new law, a new law that does not say we have to stone someone to death for committing adultery and other sexual sins---it does NOT mean it is okay to do those sexual sins. That is what Paul is explaining. Paul is explaining that since they are not under the old law that put people to death it does not mean it is okay to do those things.
Again, Paul is not saying he, and all Christians are allowed to do anything now, that is not what he is saying. He is explaining that since there is not a law for Christians, as there was in the old law that says we have to stone people to death for sexual sins---it does not mean that sexual sins is not against our new lives in Christ.
Christians do not have a dietary law to adhere to as the Jews did, except to abstain from food polluted by idols, and from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. However, since we do not have any law that says we will be cut off for eating certain animals…Paul explains how that is not reason to hurt someone else by your eating. For instance, if you are trying to preach the gospel to people who believe eating animals is wrong then you might hinder them from continuing in the truth if they see you eating meat; or a Jew might see you eating meat offered to false gods while you are trying to convert Greeks that are pagans. We are not to eat meat polluted by idols because then you are sharing in their meal to those false idols with them.
God's Truth
New member
The old law was a matter of food and drink.
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
Hebrews 9:10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings--external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
See, just because our life in Christ is not a matter of food and drink, we still cannot be mastered by food and drink.
Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
Hebrews 9:10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings--external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
See, just because our life in Christ is not a matter of food and drink, we still cannot be mastered by food and drink.
andyc
New member
Simply means that Paul wasn't under bondage to law, which also means that he didn't walk according to the flesh.
Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
What does it mean to the Gentiles who were never under the law of Moses as the Jews were?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So you admit that to the saved all things are lawful to us and therefore nothing which we do is considered to be unlawful in His sight?
And that is why sin is not imputed to those who are saved.
Derf
Well-known member
What is a "thing" in the 1 Cor 6 passage? He was talking about meats in the succeeding verse, saying it was ok to eat different meats. There aren't any things that are wrong for a Christian to use appropriately, whether meats or types of fabric or even circumcision, if he doesn't put his trust in it for salvation. But in the previous verses, he was talking about who would inherit the kingdom of God--not those who are "fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners". Stopping those activities is also not to be trusted for salvation.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. [1Co 6:11 KJV] Don't be a washed pig returning to the mire.
Additionally, earlier Paul said: Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that [your] brethren. [1Co 6:8 KJV] Was Paul being a hypocrite, laying down the law in vs 8 and revoking it in vs 12? Is defrauding your brother something that is against the moral law, or "wrong", or isn't it? which part of the chapter do you want to ignore??
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course we are supposed to keep ourselves "holy" and that is an integral part of a Christian's "service" (Ro.12:1).
But if a Christian's service comes up short he will still be saved:
"If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire" (1 Cor.3:14-15).
In regard to our position in Christ we are made the righteousness of God (2 Cor.5:21) so our salvation is not based on our own righteouness but instead on the righteousness of God. That is why sin is not imputed to believers in regard to one's salvation:
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin" (Ro.4:5-8).
It is necessary to understand the difference between a Christian's service or walk with the things in regard to his eternal salvation.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
This can only be explained by what Paul said here:
"For Christ is the end of law for righteousness to every one that believeth" (Ro.10:4).
Paul repeatedly used the words "free" and "liberty" when referring to the fact that those in the Body of Christ have been set free from law:
"And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage" (Gal.2:4).
"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage" (Gal.5:1).
In fact, Paul charged the Galatians not to use the liberty as a base of operations for sin:
"For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another" (Gal.5:13).
That practically mirrors the words of Peter found in his first epistle:
"As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God" (1 Pet.2:16).
It is clear that the words in regard to "liberty" are not just speaking of liberty in regard to the ordinances under the law.
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God's Truth
New member
You don't think that they knew they were excluded?
They knew they were excluded and without God.
They knew it was against the law for the Jews to associate with them
They knew they were unclean because they did not purify themselves.
Do you recognize what I said as scripture or do you need me to find the references for you?
God's Truth
New member
That scripture is about RIGHTEOUSNESS, and the law of righteousness are the purification works.
We have a new law and the new law gives us liberty, it does not mean we can do anything.
Unlike the Jews who could be jailed for breaking the law, the new law does no such thing.
God's Truth
New member
A man's work that burns is about you teaching someone wrong.
And the worketh part and the worketh not part---that is about the ceremonial/purification works.
God's Truth
New member
Beautiful.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You don't even understand that the words "sanctified" and "justified" in the verse which you quote is not in regard to our own "holiness" or "justification" but instead to what is given to us in grace when we believe.
Those who are sanctified by the blood of the Lamb are perfected forever:
"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. ...For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" (Heb.10:10,14).
True believers are also justified or made righteous in the eyes of the Lord, not because of what we do, but instead our righteousness is the righteousness of God which comes when we believe. Paul wrote:
"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faithfulness of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" (Phil.3:9).
So if you think that you will be judged according to your own holiness and your own righteousness then you probably will. You will not receive the blessings of being perfected forever and having the righteousness which is of God unless you believe the gospel of grace.
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