Abortion and The Holocaust....Differences?

[King cobra]

I do not justify abortion.

Thank you!

I believe I am just more aware of and empathetic with the medical and social circumstances that often surround it.

Like it or not, abortion is being done, has been done and will be done by women and men all over the world.

Nevermind.

 

[King cobra]

Still in the victim blaming business then. It's not uncommon for people, faced with evil, to be almost baffled and unable to process it. That said, the problem the Jewish population faced in Germany was that prior to the violence it had been isolated and stripped of power and means. Jews were not only facing one of the most efficient and powerful military forces in the world, but a mostly hostile population as well.

People should read Gilbert's The Holocaust: The Jewish Tragedy.

In every ghetto, in every deportation train, in every labor camp, even in the death camps, the will to resist was strong, and took many forms. Fighting with the few weapons that would be found, individual acts of defiance and protest, the courage of obtaining food and water under the threat of death, the superiority of refusing to allow the Germans their final wish to gloat over panic and despair.​

Here's a link to a free treatment.

There were any number of armed uprisings against the Nazis by those same Jews. To write off that inhumanity by tainting the victims with some vestige of guilt is beyond wrong headed.

I don't believe THall was blaming the Jews for their own demise. He made a valid point that they had capabilities. And, as you and I point out, many did resist and many left before The Holocaust itself.

Unborn babies have no such capability. That's a difference.

 

[King cobra]

Now, on abortion...I don't think an attempt is being made to kill all the unborn in the world.

An attempt is being made to kill all the "unwanted" unborn in the world.

I don't even think the sort of people who slaughter these innocents realize they're killing human beings...an evil law allows them a distance,

The ultrasound machine shortened that distance considerably for many. Some people need to be slapped with the truth to be sure.

a way of considering their right instead of the life they're taking. And it gives those who support them the same abstraction to hide behind.

Comparisons to The Holocaust need to be realized or we'll continue to ignore the rights of those taken.

Abortion is then a different sort of evil, less obvious because it relies on slight of hand.

The same slight of hand used when innocent victims are dehumanized?

We look at the individual exercising an alleged right and miss the individual being denied right.

PP and the SS both exercise/exercised their "alleged" rights...to the demise of millions.

 

[rocketman]

One would think abortion's bad enough in and of itself without having to resort to comparing it to the Final Solution. At best this is a lazy kind of button-pushing.

And the short answer is no, there's no comparing the two.

Nothing lazy about it, the two correlate perfectly, you like other Americans would just like to dismiss the fact that this country in concert with the willfully ignorant and knowingly depraved have been practicing a form of the same genocide that the Nazi's did. I would also assume that most Americans don't want the two compared because it shows this nation's apathy & culpability for the murders of millions of potential Americans, it is source of national disgrace & it should be...

 

[King cobra]

You folks get to the point where you rage, rage and rage and forget to have a sense of humor.

The fishing joke was a...JOKE. Anyone else would have seen it as not having a thing to do with anyone on this forum.

You made an immature response after having derided someone for making what you considered an immature response. You then asked to be made aware of your hypocrisy. I was merely being accommodating.

And I would hope you read my comments more carefully. Do you read the Bible the same way? I didn't say you personally "call human beings terrorists." Did I?

You attributed that notion to me via the quote box. You should apologize if it was an honest mistake and repent if it was purposeful.

 

[Granite]

Nothing lazy about it, the two correlate perfectly, you like other Americans would just like to dismiss the fact that this country in concert with the willfully ignorant and knowingly depraved have been practicing a form of the same genocide that the Nazi's did. I would also assume that most Americans don't want the two compared because it shows this nation's apathy & culpability for the murders of millions of potential Americans, it is source of national disgrace & it should be...

Nothing could be further from the truth. At all. Slapping "Well, Nazis" on a subject is sheer laziness and intellectually dishonest most of the time. Again: Any given tragedy should be able to stand on its own, with no comparison necessary.

Now, if

a) centuries-old antipathy against the unborn existed
b) based on irrational notions of race and religion
c) coupled with a uniquely nationalistic sense of destiny, purpose, superiority, and entitlement
d) which led to a fanatical hatred of the unborn
e) subsequently led to centuries of concerted persecution, ostracization, murder, mockery, and various forms of bigotry both petty and savage
f) which was engrained in the tapestry of the world's largest and most powerful religion
g) embedding itself further in the very nation which spawned the individual directly responsible for permanently fracturing christendom
h) an individual who specifically called for the persecution of his enemies, followed nearly to the letter four centuries later
i) and if assuming the above the persecution of the unborn was tacitly condoned if not taken for granted across continents
j) and if such a program of extermination was intended to permanently end the existence of this group once and for all

Then yeah, you'd have a leg to stand on.

Medically-induced abortion and the Shoah have nothing to do with one another in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Stripe]

As to total scale of the slaughter, there is no comparison.

It's not just the scale; it's that abortion targets people who have no chance to resist what is inflicted upon them. The tiniest of babies, those who should be afforded the most protection, are cast aside as if they were trash.

This is similar to the slaughter of the Jews on broad generalizations, but in reality, it is much, much worse.

 

[aikido7]

You made an immature response after having derided someone for making what you considered an immature response. You then asked to be made aware of your hypocrisy. I was merely being accommodating.

I still observe that you fail to see my "jerk at one end" a joke about fishing. I have no idea if you personally fish or not but if you still think it was a put down you are misinforming yourself to feel somehow victimized.

You attributed that notion to me via the quote box. You should apologize if it was an honest mistake and repent if it was purposeful.

Then I certainly apologize.You are right. If I indeed did that, it was sloppy and dimwitted.

And its effect was profoundly dishonest. There are not many careful readers on this website and someone who was not paying attention might have easily thought you had actually posted such a thing.

I can't help that, however.

But I don't know what would satisfy you since you seem to be bent on confronting me no matter what I post simply because you insist on clinging to your correctness on the question of abortion.

 

[King cobra]

Nothing could be further from the truth. At all. Slapping "Well, Nazis" on a subject is sheer laziness and intellectually dishonest most of the time. Again: Any given tragedy should be able to stand on its own, with no comparison necessary.

Now, if

a) centuries-old antipathy against the unborn existed
b) based on irrational notions of race and religion
c) coupled with a uniquely nationalistic sense of destiny, purpose, superiority, and entitlement
d) which led to a fanatical hatred of the unborn
e) subsequently led to centuries of concerted persecution, ostracization, murder, mockery, and various forms of bigotry both petty and savage
f) which was engrained in the tapestry of the world's largest and most powerful religion
g) embedding itself further in the very nation which spawned the individual directly responsible for permanently fracturing christendom
h) an individual who specifically called for the persecution of his enemies, followed nearly to the letter four centuries later
i) and if assuming the above the persecution of the unborn was tacitly condoned if not taken for granted across continents
j) and if such a program of extermination was intended to permanently end the existence of this group once and for all

a) Read history.
b) We are all one race (Human) and Humanism is a religion.
c) Abortion involves a humanistic sense of destiny, purpose, superiority, and entitlement.
d)“The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.”― Elie Wiesel
So describes abortion.
e) Centuries of concerted persecution, ostracization, murder, mockery, and various forms of bigotry both petty and savage led to The Holocaust. Likewise abortion.
f) /
g) /
h) /
i) The Catholic church got some things right, persecution of the Jews they got wrong. Martin Luther got some things right, persecution of the Jews he got wrong. Don’t know of anything that Maggot Sanger did right, persecution of the unborn she got wrong.
j) “We must not inflict life on children who will be resented; we must not inflict unwanted children on society.” - Anne Lamott
Sounds pretty permanent.

Then yeah, you'd have a leg to stand on.

The rebellion against God walks very steadily on the two legs of abortion and The Holocaust.

Medically-induced abortion and the Shoah have nothing to do with one another in any way, shape, or form.

And the unborn don’t speak Hebrew.

 

[Granite]

A thought: Insistence on saying abortion in America is just like the Holocaust almost strikes me as a case of Holocaust envy.

The uniquely terrible nature of one crime doesn't mean it can be compared to another calamity. Actually it means exactly the opposite.

 

[King cobra]

I still observe that you fail to see my "jerk at one end" a joke about fishing. I have no idea if you personally fish or not but if you still think it was a put down you are misinforming yourself to feel somehow victimized.

Didn’t mind the fishing joke. It was kind of funny.
But it “did not contribute anything to effective and mature communication skills.” Your words against Stripe for what, use of an emoticon?
You asked.

 

[King cobra]

A thought: Insistence on saying abortion in America is just like the Holocaust almost strikes me as a case of Holocaust envy.

The uniquely terrible nature of one crime doesn't mean it can be compared to another calamity. Actually it means exactly the opposite.

A thought: Insistence on saying abortion is nothing like The Holocaust definitely strikes me as a case of abortion approval.

The similar nature of both crimes means we should make the comparison so as to end the present calamity, and hopefully avoid future calamities...actually.

 

[Town Heretic]

An attempt is being made to kill all the "unwanted" unborn in the world.

Well, many of those go into orphanages. That's what I'm getting at, the point of abortion isn't to serve some genocidal end. It's not even that coherent as evils go.

Comparisons to The Holocaust need to be realized or we'll continue to ignore the rights of those taken.

I think using the Holocaust just invites a lot of confused side bar. So we'll disagree on this one. I'd say it's enough to cut through the distance created by a one sided concentration and consideration in right and dignity and focus instead on victim's rights and that essential human dignity being denied.

 

[Tambora]

The similar nature of both crimes means we should make the comparison so as to end the present calamity, and hopefully avoid future calamities...actually.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[gcthomas]

The similar nature of both crimes means we should make the comparison so as to end the present calamity, and hopefully avoid future calamities...actually.

What should we do to women who are caught after carrying out backstreet abortions on themselves? What should their punishment be?

 

[Stripe]

What should we do to women who are caught after carrying out backstreet abortions on themselves? What should their punishment be?

What do you think should happen to murderers?

 

[gcthomas]

What do you think should happen to murderers?

I asked you first.

 

[Stripe]

I asked you first.

And I asked you second.

You can try out these arguments from consequence when you have conceded that the baby is a person.

 

[csuguy]

There are numerous similarities between abortion and The Holocaust.

The dehumanization of human beings, the economic “justification,” the use of victims’ bodies for research, the incinerators, and on and on.

It would seem more economical then, to find differences.

So, can anyone offer a significant difference between the two?

Indeed, I've noted such similarities myself when I've discussed the topic. Nor is it limited to the Holocaust - it is the common strategy employed when one group of people decides that it would be beneficial for them to destroy/enslave/etc. another group.

Dehumanizing the "other," justifying their destruction/enslavement/abuse with promised benefits to society, etc. are all manifestations of a common class of sins. Namely: selfishness in its various forms (greed, envy, favoritism, etc). I think it a waste of time to attempt to correct such people by challenging their various justifications - for ultimately these are just tools for getting away with what they want. That's not to say that these shouldn't be addressed - but when you get down to it, it is this underlying selfishness/greed/envy/etc. that is driving them. Only by changing their heart so that they can put the well-being of others ahead of themselves will such atrocities be stopped.

 

[chrysostom]

the big difference
is
no one can plead ignorance

babies are being killed for convenience

you can't say you were not aware of this