The Saving results of the Death of Christ !

[Right Divider]

Water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism are two different things. Water baptism does not give new life, being born again by infilling the nature of Christ by Holy Spirit baptism is what saves sinners.

And Paul says that there is one baptism in the body of Christ. So water is not it!

 

[JudgeRightly]

Yes, "hope" means "hope".
And in 1 Thes 5:8 that hope is of salvation.
Why would he have us hoping for something we already had?

Again, "hope" today means something slightly different than "hope" in Paul's time. You're stuck on today's meaning. This is called a Historian's Fallacy.

You seem to have ignored literally everything I said about this. From a user named "Hoping," that's rather ironic... Just saying.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You may not realize it, but you have a doctrine that introduced sin into Christ.
That is not possible.

Saying it doesn't make it so, Hoping!

Make the argument!

 

[JudgeRightly]

Nothing except that that is when the body of Christ was told how to have their past sins remitted and how to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is called begging the question. It's a logical fallacy for a reason.

The only time the word "remission" is used in scripture, it's used in the Gospels (in which Jesus says He is come only for the lost sheep of the House of Israel), twice by Peter both times in Acts, and the author of Hebrews a few times.

It's NEVER used by Paul.

Do you see where this is going?

 

[Right Divider]

Paul preached the first step first, the gospel, before the second and third steps, repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

Regardless of the "number of steps", water baptism is NOT one of them.

Step one before anything else.

Regardless of the "number of steps", water baptism is NOT one of them.

Nothing except that that is when the body of Christ was told how to have their past sins remitted and how to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost .

The members of the body of Christ do not receive the Holy Ghost by getting wet.

If it can help me live without sin, it will be useful.

Only the SPIRIT of God can do that.

Hmmm.
What it did was deprive me of my baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins without providing any replacement.

That is no need to replace something that is useless and unneeded.

I don't want to keep walking around with all the old man's baggage.

You have plenty of baggage of your own.

 

[Hoping]

You need to stop now before you are called a heretic. You're darn close in my book.

?

The blood of Christ has cleansed us from all sin. True believers have the Jesus Christ IN US.

Agreed, but we are in Him too.

Who are you to dare question our Great God?

I have never questioned God.
How about if I say that now cleansed of all past sins, in Christ, with the Holy Ghost in me, reborn of God's seed, am perfect?
How about if I say that I am in Christ with sin on me?
Which statement can be true and which statement cannot be true?

 

[Hoping]

You don't even know what you're posting or what you're disagreeing with.
In fact, I said my God given conscience.
The Law is NOT written in my heart. I have the Holy Spirit and the love of God has been shed abroad on my heart.

Is God's command to not kill, lie, commit adultery, or steal in your conscience?
If it is, the Law of God is in your heart.
What is so hard to understand bout that?

No, you have no concept of what the light is.

1 John 1:5 says what the light is..."This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."
Those who walk in the light, walk in God.

Ah, you poor baby. You've suffered with Christ. How could our Lord ever made it without your help.

Yes, as it is written in Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
The Lord didn't need my help, but I sure needed His.

Now you're lying.
You don't keep either of those commandments.
If you did, you would not be preaching false doctrine and denying the Gospel of Salvation.

I preach a doctrine which glorifies God with the resulting of obedience to Him.
Don't you think men should obey God?
God sure does, as it is written..."But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy."
Would it be like God to leave us in bondage to sin after our conversion to Christianity?
I know He didn't.

Ah, so you think YOU have crucified the flesh.... You need to go back and start at the beginning.

I didn't do it, I just obeyed the commandments that allowed it to occur.

Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Can't you make the same claim as Paul?

 

[Hoping]

Well, you have a few verses there that you've mashed all together. Making a mockery of the Bible....

I can't agree that verses of the bible make a mockery of the bible.

You think Paul is saying something he isn't, and you claim John is speaking to you.

You will need to be more precise. ???

A piece of advice. Try reading Paul in context.
You'll find out that members of the body of Christ rely totally on the righteousness of Christ.
Our own "righteousness" will never get us saved.
In fact, our own "righteousness" will prevent us from being saved.

We must put our faith in the righteousness of Christ......salvation is not of ourselves lest anyone boast.

Amen to that, and the end product is not a man who continues to be unjust and wicked.

 

[Hoping]

I'm wondering where you got this doctrine.

As it is written..."Faith cometh by hearing..." (Rom 10:17)
I heard about it.

In the first place receiving the "gift of the Holy Ghost" is not the same as being indwelt and sealed with the Holy Spirit.

We don't agree on that.

The Holy Spirit came upon people even in the OT. THIS, however, is proof that God has purchased us with His own blood.

It is also proof of a real turn (repentance) from sin.
That is what Peter said in Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

A "baptism" done by men is works. There are works and there is grace. You cannot have both.

Sorry , but you are using one false doctrine to prop up a...mis-thought.
The only "works" Paul preached against were the works of the Mosaic Law, ie. circumcision, dietary laws, feast keeping etc.
Obeying an apostle's directions on being saved in not a work of the law.
By the grace of God we are equipt with all the things we need to do for salvation...Thanks be to God.

Eph. 1:13-14
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Do you consider "trusting" and "believing" to be "works" that can't exist alongside grace?

 

[Hoping]

Why do you refuse to put your faith in the finished work of the cross?

If I actually refused to put my faith in Him and His works, I would still be a sinner and without hope in this wicked world.
I would still be a servant of sin and free of the truth.

It is God who has begun a good work in us....and it is HE that will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.
Philipians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
You need to realize the we are God's workmanship. Stop trying to steal glory for yourself by twisting scripture.

If obeying Jesus, and His apostles, is "glorifying myself", what are the folks who disobey Him doing?

 

[Hoping]

Water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism are two different things.

Agreed.

Water baptism does not give new life, being born again by infilling the nature of Christ by Holy Spirit baptism is what saves sinners.

You will need to stack that belief alongside the words of Rom 6:4..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Newness of life, after our death and burial with Christ.
It is, however, the Holy Spirit that "quickens" the raised man to walk in newness of life.
Rom 8:11..."But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
I don't feel we can separate one manifestation of God's grace from the other.

 

[Hoping]

This is called begging the question. It's a logical fallacy for a reason.

The only time the word "remission" is used in scripture, it's used in the Gospels (in which Jesus says He is come only for the lost sheep of the House of Israel), twice by Peter both times in Acts, and the author of Hebrews a few times.

It's NEVER used by Paul.

Do you see where this is going?

I believe it means, according to you or your teachers, that anything said to the Jews doesn't apply to Gentiles.
I can't agree, as Jesus tore down the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile.
It is written..."For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"
Gentile and Jew are one, now."

All the apostles were Jews.
The first members of the body of Christ were Jews.
The Gentiles were taught by Jews.
The entire NT is the fulfillment of the OT.
The entire bible was written by Jews.
They are inseparable.

Ever asked yourself why your teachers want to deep-six all that was taught by Jews to us?

 

[Hoping]

Regardless of the "number of steps", water baptism is NOT one of them.
Regardless of the "number of steps", water baptism is NOT one of them.
The members of the body of Christ do not receive the Holy Ghost by getting wet.
Only the SPIRIT of God can do that.
That is no need to replace something that is useless and unneeded.
You have plenty of baggage of your own.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

 

[Right Divider]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

You cannot handle the truth. You should feel sorry for yourself.

 

[Hoping]

You cannot handle the truth. You should feel sorry for yourself.

Would that be the truth Jesus said could free me from committing sin?
John 8:32-34..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."

Or is that truth just for the Jews?

 

[Right Divider]

Would that be the truth Jesus said could free me from committing sin?
John 8:32-34..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin."

Or is that truth just for the Jews?

Since you just post idiotic nonsense, welcome to my ignore list.

 

[marke]

Agreed.

You will need to stack that belief alongside the words of Rom 6:4..."Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Newness of life, after our death and burial with Christ.
It is, however, the Holy Spirit that "quickens" the raised man to walk in newness of life.
Rom 8:11..."But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
I don't feel we can separate one manifestation of God's grace from the other.

You missed the part that said we should walk in newness of life, not that every Christian would walk in newness of life. All Christians have been baptized in Jesus but not all Christians walk pleasing to God.

 

[glorydaz]

I have never questioned God.
How about if I say that now cleansed of all past sins, in Christ, with the Holy Ghost in me, reborn of God's seed, am perfect?

The remission of all past sins is referring to sins committed before Christ died on the cross.

Paul goes on to declare AT THIS TIME the righteousness of God through faith. So the PAST sins have nothing to do with you.

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

How about if I say that I am in Christ with sin on me?

Those who are saved are forgiven of all sin.

Which statement can be true and which statement cannot be true?

My answer has to be that neither of your statements are true.

 

[glorydaz]

Is God's command to not kill, lie, commit adultery, or steal in your conscience?
If it is, the Law of God is in your heart.
What is so hard to understand bout that?

I understand the conscience, that's why I brought it up.

I thought you were talking about this, and it's is not talking about our conscience. This is talking about the millenium Kingdom.

• Hebrews 8:10
  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
  I
• Hebrews 10:16
  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

So when you say the law is written in your heart, you're saying you're just like the heathen who also have a conscience.

I preach a doctrine which glorifies God with the resulting of obedience to Him.
Don't you think men should obey God?
God sure does, as it is written..."But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy."
Would it be like God to leave us in bondage to sin after our conversion to Christianity?
I know He didn't.

I didn't do it, I just obeyed the commandments that allowed it to occur.

There you go boasting in your own obedience.

Can't you make the same claim as Paul?

You'd be wise to ask yourself that question.

In fact, you need to think about your questions before you put them in print.
First you have to understand what Paul is saying before you can ask others if they can make the same claim as Paul.

 

[glorydaz]

I can't agree that verses of the bible make a mockery of the bible.

When you post contradicting verses in an attempt to preach a false doctrine, that is exactly what you're doing. Making a mockery of the Bible.

Amen to that, and the end product is not a man who continues to be unjust and wicked.

And who are you to say what God's workmanship looks like?