You do not go to Heaven or to Hell, when you die..

Hobie

BANNED
Banned
Scripture says it plainly, you dont go to Hell or Heaven, you go back to dust in the grave, nothing more.

"19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” Genesis 3:19.

"21 Why then do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be." Job 7:21.

"10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?..12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job 14:10&12.

"17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence." Psalm 115:17.

"4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish." Psalm 146:4.

"19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again." Ecclesiastes 3:19-20.



This tells us that what happens to man and what happens to the beasts is the same, as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts. They all go to one place, which is the same. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. Solomon decleares in Ecclesiastes:

"5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." Ecclesiastes 9:5-6.


Over and over again the Bible says that the dead know nothing. These are only a few examples. The dead don’t think. They don’t praise the Lord. They have no consciousness. They return to the earth, as dust. The dead are in a completely unconscious state without thought or feeling, just as they would be if they were asleep.

Once people die, it’s like if they were to fall into a deep coma or sleep. They aren’t aware of anything at all, or passage of time in any form or communicating with those they left behind. If they return to dust as scripture says, its clear that the dead aren’t taken straight to Heaven, or to Hell for that matter. If they were with God as soon as they died, there would be no need for a Savior or Christs death at the cross. And if they went straight to Hell, there would be no need for the Second Death at the Lake of Fire as the scripture clearly shows us.

"15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15.

The wicked are not found in the book of life and only at the lake of fire at the end do they find their punishment.

"18 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8.


Referring to death as a sleep is what we find throughout the Bible and when someone falls asleep, eventually they wake up again. So, what does it say in scripture as if the Bible describes death like a sleep, like something temporary, we can deduce that there must be some way to come back from death, to ‘“wake up,” as it were. But how does one “wake up” from death?

"14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." Luke 14:14.


The idea of resurrection, of someone “waking up” from the dead, is throughout the Bible. Elijah and Elisha, through the power of God, raised people from the dead. Jesus did the same during his time on earth, bringing back a widow’s son, a young girl, and his dear friend Lazarus, proving that God’s power is greater than death. He can get us out of this first death, from this deep coma or sleep in the grave, to life everlasting.

"24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day." John 11:24.


Its called the resurrection of the just which scripture tells us will happen at the Second Coming for saints and Christ has the power and has promised to call us from the grave like Lazarus and take us to heaven to be with Him in His Heavenly Kingdom.

"15 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:" John 11:25.
 
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Bradley D

Well-known member
"...and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it" (Eccl. 12:7).

"...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body" (1 Cor. 15:44).
 

DAN P

Well-known member
Scripture says it plainly, you dont go to Hell or Heaven, you go back to dust in the grave, nothing more.

"19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” Genesis 3:19.

"21 Why then do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be." Job 7:21.

"10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?..12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job 14:10&12.

"17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence." Psalm 115:17.

"4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish." Psalm 146:4.

"19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again." Ecclesiastes 3:19-20.



This tells us that what happens to man and what happens to the beasts is the same, as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts. They all go to one place, which is the same. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. Solomon decleares in Ecclesiastes:

"5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." Ecclesiastes 9:5-6.


Over and over again the Bible says that the dead know nothing. These are only a few examples. The dead don’t think. They don’t praise the Lord. They have no consciousness. They return to the earth, as dust. The dead are in a completely unconscious state without thought or feeling, just as they would be if they were asleep.

Once people die, it’s like if they were to fall into a deep coma or sleep. They aren’t aware of anything at all, or passage of time in any form or communicating with those they left behind. If they return to dust as scripture says, its clear that the dead aren’t taken straight to Heaven, or to Hell for that matter. If they were with God as soon as they died, there would be no need for a Savior or Christs death at the cross. And if they went straight to Hell, there would be no need for the Second Death at the Lake of Fire as the scripture clearly shows us.

"15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15.

The wicked are not found in the book of life and only at the lake of fire at the end do they find their punishment.

"18 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8.


Referring to death as a sleep is what we find throughout the Bible and when someone falls asleep, eventually they wake up again. So, what does it say in scripture as if the Bible describes death like a sleep, like something temporary, we can deduce that there must be some way to come back from death, to ‘“wake up,” as it were. But how does one “wake up” from death?

"14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." Luke 14:14.


The idea of resurrection, of someone “waking up” from the dead, is throughout the Bible. Elijah and Elisha, through the power of God, raised people from the dead. Jesus did the same during his time on earth, bringing back a widow’s son, a young girl, and his dear friend Lazarus, proving that God’s power is greater than death. He can get us out of this first death, from this deep coma or sleep in the grave, to life everlasting.

"24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day." John 11:24.


Its called the resurrection of the just which scripture tells us will happen at the Second Coming for saints and Christ has the power and has promised to call us from the grave like Lazarus and take us to heaven to be with Him in His Heavenly Kingdom.

"15 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:" John 11:25.
And when reading Luke 16:19-31 the verses talk about ( hell ) and that Abraham and Lazarus are there .

And when a grace believer dies he goes to heaven and present with the Lord , 2 Cor 5:8 .

dan p
 

Derf

Well-known member
And when reading Luke 16:19-31 the verses talk about ( hell ) and that Abraham and Lazarus are there .

And when a grace believer dies he goes to heaven and present with the Lord , 2 Cor 5:8 .

dan p
Luke 16 doesn't actually say Lazarus and Abraham are in hell/hades. Go read it again.
 

Derf

Well-known member
"...and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it" (Eccl. 12:7).
The spirit returning to God can't be the person's soul, or else all people would be with God after they die, even the rich man who went to hell.
"...it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body" (1 Cor. 15:44).
This is specifically talking about the resurrection, and what that will look like. So it actually reinforces what @Hobie is saying.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Luke 16 doesn't actually say Lazarus and Abraham are in hell/hades. Go read it again.

it says the richman is in hades
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
 

Derf

Well-known member
it says the richman is in hades
Luk 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried,
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
Right. A and L were "far off" from Hades where RM was.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Scripture says it plainly, you dont go to Hell or Heaven, you go back to dust in the grave, nothing more.

"19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return.” Genesis 3:19.

"21 Why then do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust; And You will seek me, but I will not be." Job 7:21.

"10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?..12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job 14:10&12.

"17 The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence." Psalm 115:17.

"4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish." Psalm 146:4.

"19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again." Ecclesiastes 3:19-20.



This tells us that what happens to man and what happens to the beasts is the same, as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts. They all go to one place, which is the same. All are from the dust, and to dust all return. Solomon decleares in Ecclesiastes:

"5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun." Ecclesiastes 9:5-6.


Over and over again the Bible says that the dead know nothing. These are only a few examples. The dead don’t think. They don’t praise the Lord. They have no consciousness. They return to the earth, as dust. The dead are in a completely unconscious state without thought or feeling, just as they would be if they were asleep.

Once people die, it’s like if they were to fall into a deep coma or sleep. They aren’t aware of anything at all, or passage of time in any form or communicating with those they left behind. If they return to dust as scripture says, its clear that the dead aren’t taken straight to Heaven, or to Hell for that matter. If they were with God as soon as they died, there would be no need for a Savior or Christs death at the cross. And if they went straight to Hell, there would be no need for the Second Death at the Lake of Fire as the scripture clearly shows us.

"15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15.

The wicked are not found in the book of life and only at the lake of fire at the end do they find their punishment.

"18 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8.


Referring to death as a sleep is what we find throughout the Bible and when someone falls asleep, eventually they wake up again. So, what does it say in scripture as if the Bible describes death like a sleep, like something temporary, we can deduce that there must be some way to come back from death, to ‘“wake up,” as it were. But how does one “wake up” from death?

"14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." Luke 14:14.


The idea of resurrection, of someone “waking up” from the dead, is throughout the Bible. Elijah and Elisha, through the power of God, raised people from the dead. Jesus did the same during his time on earth, bringing back a widow’s son, a young girl, and his dear friend Lazarus, proving that God’s power is greater than death. He can get us out of this first death, from this deep coma or sleep in the grave, to life everlasting.

"24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day." John 11:24.


Its called the resurrection of the just which scripture tells us will happen at the Second Coming for saints and Christ has the power and has promised to call us from the grave like Lazarus and take us to heaven to be with Him in His Heavenly Kingdom.

"15 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:" John 11:25.
Yet another self important fool who just wants to waste bandwidth expressing his opinion without any inclination, desire or intent of responding to anyone who disagrees, no matter how substantive the argument presented against his entirely unorthodox beliefs.
 

Derf

Well-known member
Please quote the scripture so that we can accurately discuss it.
Matthew 10:15 (KJV) Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Hebrews 6:2 (KJV)
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

2 Peter 2:9 (KJV)
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Jude 1:6 (KJV)
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Romans 5:18 (KJV)
Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life.

Romans 14:10 (KJV)
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

2 Corinthians 5:10 (KJV) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 Thessalonians 1:5 (KJV)
[Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

2 Timothy 4:1 (KJV)
I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
 

Right Divider

Body part
Why then is the judgment normally talked about as occurring when Christ returns?
OK, there are lots of verses about judgment. How do you relate any of the ones that you just quoted as "occurring when Christ returns"?

Most of those occur at least 1000 years after Christ returns. Certainly eternal judgement is after the millennial kingdom.
 
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