With Men This is Impossible

[daqq]

Before you pose as a Greek expert you should first understand what is said in the English versions of the Bible.

I quoted the ASV as one of the many renderings which say the same:

You did not pay close enough attention to the context of my remarks:

Romans 5:13 ASV
13 for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Perhaps that is why the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah does not lead anyone to Messiah.

It is you who started with the Greek Jerryatrics by claiming the ASV is wrong:

Here is the correct translation:

"...for until law sin was in the world; but sin is not put to account when there is no law" (Ro.5:12-13; DBY).
​

There is no definite article preceding the Greek word translated "law."

If the correct translation is "the law" then we must believe that no one prior to the law of Moses had their sins imputed to them. However, we know that is not true:

"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire" (Jude 7).
​

Then I quoted a link to a whole slew of translations that say the same:

So according to you most all of these renderings are incorrect:
http://biblehub.com/romans/5-13.htm

And you deny all of those renderings because they do not agree with one of your pet doctrines. It is you who is playing Greek expert, (lol). In addition you have completely ignored the context from that passage which clearly spells out that Paul is speaking of the Torah:

Romans 5:12-14 ASV
12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:—
13 for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.

Death reigned from Adam until Moses: not from Adam until Messiah, but from Adam until MOSES, (and therefore until the giving of the Torah), and therefore the context that I also spoke of earlier, (which you neither understood then nor understand now), is intact and is correctly understood and applied concerning why this all came about to begin with. However you never understood what I was saying to begin with so now you are lost in your own rabbit trail of your own doing. You would have been much better off just to believe what the scripture statement says in almost every English translation rather than trying to apply your own Jerryatrics so as to figit and twist what it says to suit your privately held dogmas. This is not a free ride; you will answer for your doings in the end, and you are twisting the writings of Paul to your own destruction just as Peter says.

 

[Nanja]

Prior to being given a new spiritual life, can the man, by nature, do what is right?

Those in the flesh / carnal cannot please God by anything they do Rom. 8:8.


However, those whom Christ Died for, He also Lived for, so in God's eyes they are already perfectly Righteous Rom. 4:6-8 and shall be Given New Spiritual Life in time as evidence of their Righteousness in Christ Heb. 7:22; 13:20; Rom. 5:9-10; Is. 53:6 given them according to God's Purpose and Grace before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9

Rom. 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

But all the rest He did not live and die for, they are unrighteous, and will remain in a lost state regardless of what they do or do not do Eph. 2:9.


Pops

So these verses not show that it is possible for man, by God given nature, to submit to the things of GOD, and seek out HIS mercy?

Nope. Remember that before New Birth nothing a person does can please God Rom. 8:8, and that includes their own efforts of obeying, submitting, seeking, etc. For scripture declares:

Rom. 3:11-12
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

They can only seek the god of their own understanding Eph. 4:18, but not the True God!


Those Christ did not live and die for shall permanently remain in a state of unrighteousness:

1 Cor. 6:9
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

For if Christ died for these, God could not declare them to be unrighteous!


Also, God's Mercy is for none other than His Vessels of Mercy!

Rom. 9:22-23
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the Vessels of Mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

So, according to God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph. 3:11, He made some to be His vessels of mercy;

They were "afore prepared" [Gr. proetoimazo; predestine] By Predestination!

Eph. 2:10
For we [the Saints, the Faithful In Christ Jesus Eph. 1:1; Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


But all others are vessels of wrath God created to be destroyed Rom. 9:22, so there's no hope of salvation for them.

Rev. 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[popsthebuilder]

Those in the flesh / carnal cannot please God by anything they do Rom. 8:8.


However, those whom Christ Died for, He also Lived for, so in God's eyes they are already perfectly Righteous Rom. 4:6-8 and shall be Given New Spiritual Life in time as evidence of their Righteousness in Christ Heb. 7:22; 13:20; Rom. 5:9-10; Is. 53:6 given them according to God's Purpose and Grace before the World began 2 Tim. 1:9

Rom. 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

But all the rest He did not live and die for, they are unrighteous, and will remain in a lost state regardless of what they do or do not do Eph. 2:9.


Pops



Nope. Remember that before New Birth nothing a person does can please God Rom. 8:8, and that includes their own efforts of obeying, submitting, seeking, etc. For scripture declares:

Rom. 3:11-12
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

They can only seek the god of their own understanding Eph. 4:18, but not the True God!


Those Christ did not live and die for shall permanently remain in a state of unrighteousness:

1 Cor. 6:9
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

For if Christ died for these, God could not declare them to be unrighteous!


Also, God's Mercy is for none other than His Vessels of Mercy!

Rom. 9:22-23
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the Vessels of Mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

So, according to God's Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph. 3:11, He made some to be His vessels of mercy;

They were "afore prepared" [Gr. proetoimazo; predestine] By Predestination!

Eph. 2:10
For we [the Saints, the Faithful In Christ Jesus Eph. 1:1; Vessels of Mercy Rom. 9:23] are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


But all others are vessels of wrath God created to be destroyed Rom. 9:22, so there's no hope of salvation for them.

Rev. 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

No, you seem to be confating carnal/ flesh(greed) with nature.

I gave the verses.

peace

Sent from my Alcatel_6055U using Tapatalk

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It is you who started with the Greek Jerryatrics by claiming the ASV is wrong:

If the translation is correct then please answer this question:

In your opinion were men's sins imputed to them before the law of Moses came into being?

Just a simple "yes" or "no" will do just fine.