ECT WILL PENTECOSTALS TELL US WHY ??

[Totton Linnet]

Because I do not respond right away is because I'm not always able.

Prove you wrong? What does novice have to do with it. You DAN P need to admit you think the Pentecostals are whacked in the head, no nothing and are follows of the O/T law and practice foolishness.

You have a fight against the Pentecostals, and apparently have not read any of their statement of faith or articles of that statement of faith.

"People are fearful of they don't understand, and do much to disprove it." Nathaniel Van Cleave.

To you the upper room experience and subsequent N/T scriptures about Pentecost are just page filler; I'll put it this way at least you a yes or no, black and white, true or false person, I admire that in people. I like, "Let you yes be yes and your no be no" of what Jesus said. It's the best way to treat things, with no gray areas you then have the absolute truth, and that is what I believe in. I also gauge a person by their truth and experience in life, church, Bible knowledge, of course I'm a novice after these 58 years of being saved and daily Bible study.

Carry on :e4e:​

He is a failed Pentecostalist......he went to the front to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost and didn't so he supposes nobody else received it.

...I never went to the front [it is not biblical] but I as baptised in the Holy Ghost.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Hi and I do not mind in the LEAST to show why PENTECOSTALISM has to Believe in Circumcision as Peter preached Circumcision in Gal 2:7 , which is called " THE CIRCUMCISION " for those Novices .

So , when Peter is preaching Circumcision , you HAVE to practice Water Baptism , Sabbath Keeping , Temple Worship , sell all that you have and of Course , Animal Sacrifices AND Baptism for the Dead in 1 Cor 15:29 , but can not and are very Dis-honest !!:dizzy::dizzy:

Prove mr wrong NOVICE !!

dan p

The bible way is believe and recieve

 

[Psalmist]

The bible way is believe and recieve

Like old hymn "It's Real" states...

It's real, it's real,
Yes, I know it's real,
Praise God the doubts are canceled,
For I know, I know it's real.​

​

 

[Totton Linnet]

Like old hymn "It's Real" states...

It's real, it's real,
Yes, I know it's real,
Praise God the doubts are canceled,
For I know, I know it's real.​

​

Sure....DP argues like the atheists who say "I never got saved, must be there is no salvation." so he says "I never received the baptism of the Holy Ghost, must be there is no baptism"

 

[turbosixx]

Hi,

Look at all the instances of baptism in the NT. All are performed with at least one other person in attendance, after all you never read of anyone baptising themselves do you? Our Lord Himself said: "Whoever shall confess Me before men, him also will I confess before My Father which is in heaven." Matt. 10:32. This confession can be by word or by action or by both!

That's the whole point of baptism. Haven't you been baptised in water then?

Pete

Here is my problem with that logic, it's based on inference. Thanks to that logic and ignoring scriptures about baptism, many ideas abound about baptism, even to the point that it's of no use to us today. Why not use scriptures that actually talk about what baptism is or what baptism does. Like this:

1 Pt. 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

I'll believe plain words of scripture before I will believe inference.

Yes, I have been baptized.

 

[turbosixx]

dan p

Dan P

I want to clear something up. I'm not a pentecostal in the denominational sense. I do not believe that we have spiritual gifts, like tongues, today. I do believe the church/kingdom was established on the day of pentecost.

 

[Cross Reference]

Dan P

I want to clear something up. I'm not a pentecostal in the denominational sense. I do not believe that we have spiritual gifts, like tongues, today. I do believe the church/kingdom was established on the day of pentecost.

Obviously, you aren't a Pentecostal at all.

1. You are a cessationist.

2. Church and kingdom are two distinct organisms. One being in and of the Father with entry being of the new birth while the other originating on Earth by Jesus Christ that is invisible __ not to be confused with the visible one called, "Mother".

 

[turbosixx]

Obviously, you aren't a Pentecostal at all.

1. You are a cessationist.

2. Church and kingdom are two distinct organisms. One being in and of the Father with entry being of the new birth while the other originating on Earth by Jesus Christ that is invisible __ not to be confused with the visible one called, "Mother".

1. I'm a Christian.

2. Help me to understand this. Here is where I'm at now.

The Church:
Future tense: Matt. 16:18.... and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Past tense: Acts 20:28... Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Kingdom:
Future tense:
Matt. 10:7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’
Past tense:
Col. 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,

It looks like after Jesus' D,B & R, both were established. I'm not sure I understand how you see them different.

 

[Cross Reference]

1. I'm a Christian.

I understsand and meant no offense but only to make a distinction as to what "kind"..

2. Help me to understand this. Here is where I'm at now.

The Church:
Future tense: Matt. 16:18.... and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
Past tense: Acts 20:28... Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Your "past" tense has never ended. It is still with us since Acts 2.

Kingdom:
Future tense:
Matt. 10:7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’

Only near and not yet established in the heart of man.

Past tense:
Col. 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,

Again, your "past" tense is ongoing __ for the Christian.

It looks like after Jesus' D,B & R, both were established. I'm not sure I understand how you see them different.

I see my understanding. Not so sure I grasp what you are asking.

 

[turbosixx]

I understsand and meant no offense but only to make a distinction as to what "kind"..



Your "past" tense has never ended. It is still with us since Acts 2.



Only near and not yet established in the heart of man.




Again, your "past" tense is ongoing __ for the Christian.



I see my understanding. Not so sure I grasp what you are asking.

No offense, I'm not easily offended. The only one to accomplish that so far is Nick M and that's because he posted a quote I never said. I've even been called me names by him and others but that doesn't bother me. It just shows me how good of Christians they are not.

Your right, past tense is going on now. What I was showing was that Jesus talked of establishing the church and the kingdom before he died. After his resurrection, we see them established. So what I'm trying to understand is, if they were both established at the same time, why are they different? I see the body called different things based on the audience but it's the same group of believers.

If you see them as different, I'm curious as to how.

 

[DAN P]

Your "past" tense has never ended. It is still with us since Acts 2.

Hi and you are dead wrong as the AORIST TENSE or Past Tense , means it has happened at a POINT in Past Time .

It is the Present Tense that is CONTINUOUS ACTION !!

Like " He has Purchased " is in the AOTIST TENSE or in English the Past tense and means that he has ONLY purchased us one time ONLY , so OSAS !!

Christ doe not Purchased , or Repurchase continually for His Body of Christ !!:bang::bang:

dan p

 

[turbosixx]

Hi and you are dead wrong as the AORIST TENSE or Past Tense , means it has happened at a POINT in Past Time .

It is the Present Tense that is CONTINUOUS ACTION !!

Like " He has Purchased " is in the AOTIST TENSE or in English the Past tense and means that he has ONLY purchased us one time ONLY , so OSAS !!

Christ doe not Purchased , or Repurchase continually for His Body of Christ !!:bang::bang:

dan p

I agree one time. What I meant was, before Jesus died the church was not built and the kingdom was at hand and after his resurrection, they were established. One time.

 

[Cross Reference]

Hi and you are dead wrong as the AORIST TENSE or Past Tense , means it has happened at a POINT in Past Time .

It is the Present Tense that is CONTINUOUS ACTION !!

Like " He has Purchased " is in the AOTIST TENSE or in English the Past tense and means that he has ONLY purchased us one time ONLY , so OSAS !!

Christ doe not Purchased , or Repurchase continually for His Body of Christ !!

dan p

Did any of that "head cheese" change anything I wrote?? NO!

 

[turbosixx]

I understsand and meant no offense but only to make a distinction as to what "kind"..

I personally do not believe there are different kinds. In my understanding, Jesus is not divided.

 

[Cross Reference]

I personally do not believe there are different kinds. In my understanding, Jesus is not divided.

. . . His church sure is.

 

[oatmeal]

How do you define a Pentecostal specifically?

I do not consider myself a Pentecostal.

Those that speak in tongues are speaking in tongues, but knowing of some of the ungodly actions and doctrines they add to and therefore queer that with, I would not lump myself with them

All things are to be done decently and in order. God is not the author of confusion but of peace. I Corinthians 14:33,40

Speaking in tongues is genuine and will not cease until we all see Jesus Christ face to face, I Corinthians 12:12, I John 3:1-2

 

[DAN P]

Did any of that "head cheese" change anything I wrote?? NO!

Hi and it means you have CONTEXT problem and do not know what the Tenses mean !!

Acts 20:28 has 2 Aorist Tenses and 2 Present Tenses !

#1 , The Verb " take heed " is in the Present , Active and in the Imperative Mood of COMMAND , to take heed !

#2 , The verb " hath made " is a S. Aorist tense , Middle Voice and in the Indicative Mood of a FACT !!

#3 , The verb " to feed " is also in the Present tense which a Continuous action , Active Voice and an Infinivate !

#4 , The verb " He hath Purchased " is also Aorist Tense and looks back to a FINISHED ACTION !!

Point #4 shows why you are Dead Wrong and is a FINI8SHED ACTION some 2000 years ago !!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

dan p

 

[revpete]

Here is my problem with that logic, it's based on inference. Thanks to that logic and ignoring scriptures about baptism, many ideas abound about baptism, even to the point that it's of no use to us today. Why not use scriptures that actually talk about what baptism is or what baptism does. Like this:



1 Pt. 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,



I'll believe plain words of scripture before I will believe inference.



Yes, I have been baptized.

This is not inference, if the scriptures are read in context it is perfectly logical and makes sense. The point that Peter was making is that the waters of Noah's flood prefigured baptism. The verse does not directly talk of baptism but is typology.

As I stated previously all the scriptures that do talk of baptism do so as a public witness of an inner conversion. I don't think there's any confusion over baptism at all, not if the relevant verses are read in context and are allowed to speak for themselves.

Anyway, this discussion will go on and on. Let's prayerfully go to the scriptures about it and follow what we believe is the leading of The Holy Spirit on the matter.

Blessings: Pete

 

[Psalmist]

We haven't read... (yet)

That's not what God meant
That's not what God said
Paul nor Peter didn't understand what they was writing
(but they were living it at the time)

While fault and error can be found in any denomination because they don't agree with me...
You cannot and will not find fault in with God inspired His chosen writer's to write -- 2 Tim. 3:16 "Scripture is given by inspiration of God..."

We'll not stand at the Judgment Seat of Christ (the Bema) and say to the "Great Judge" on that day, "Lord that's not not what you meant in verse so and so, I need to prove these fellow believer's wrong" Sure we will.

Why not call God or Jesus out and challenge Him, after all one is the Creator and and the other is the author and and finisher of our faith. Neither one is a kindergartner or a Johnny come lately. No they are not.

I think the problem is us, as we do not give due diligence in studying the Scriptures, when we do it's to nit pic and find a translation that says what we want it to say. That would be like "Lucky Bible Dip" in finding what we want the Scriptures to help us.

Serious Bible study is important as we see how the language and mean of the verse, it's when we become like restless natives and and begin to strike each other in a way that would make even Jesus think, "Are these people saved?"

I know I need to examine myself as my attitude, and the way I respond, apologetics is important, but in the simplest terms we or I can turn it into cat fight.

Lord forgive us, forgive me, it like were are trying to tear the witters of Scripture from limb to limb, and make Jesus out as a good old boy -- Jesus forgive me for such trivial handling of the Word and You, Amen!​

 

[turbosixx]

This is not inference, if the scriptures are read in context it is perfectly logical and makes sense.

Ok, how is it not inference, because nowhere in scripture does it say anything about being a public profession. Here is my proof, from scripture, that proves it is NOT a public profession.

The people in Ephesus were taught the gospel and water baptized but it wasn't "correct" water baptism. If water baptism is ONLY a public profession, how can it be done incorrectly?

Acts 18:24 Now a Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures. 25This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John;

So when Paul rolls into town he asked if they had received the Holy Spirit when they believed. When he finds out they haven't, he doesn't ask them a single thing about what they were taught or if they truly believed, he asks them about their baptism. Why would Paul ask about baptism? He didn't question their belief and he knew they had been baptized. When he finds out about their baptism, the problem wasn't that is wasn't done in public or they had baptized themselves. It was water baptism done in public but it was not the correct baptism. When he discovers this is the problem, he baptizes them again with the correct baptism.

Acts 19:1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." 4Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

The point that Peter was making is that the waters of Noah's flood prefigured baptism.

That's right, bible says saved through water. God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,
21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you

The verse does not directly talk of baptism but is typology.
Blessings: Pete ��

I disagree. It says baptism is "a pledge of a good conscience toward God" and "not the removal of dirt". He is clearly talking of baptism, why else would he lead of with "saved through water"? 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

As I stated previously all the scriptures that do talk of baptism do so as a public witness of an inner conversion.

Please show me.