Why would God need a hell?

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Mickiel

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Thank you. Okay, just from your list, let me ask you something. Humans have a body and a consciousness, which of those verses show both being killed forever? Mind you, I do not believe in eternal punishing, nor do I believe in eternity of a fleshly body. But neither do I believe in eternal death for a human.



I ask you this for a reason, there is only one biblical scripture that I know of where the body and the consciousness is mentioned in same sentence, Matt. 10:28, Christ said to fear him who " Is ABLE" to kill BOTH the body and the consciousness of a man, but it never states that he ever did or would do it. That is destroy BOTH.
 

Mickiel

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I've found the moral of the story is that Satan is the part of us that tricks us into feeling separate from God. I think this is another lesson we tend to overlook in favor of something more convenient. I was too proud to admit that I was actively identifying with the personality and that Satan was actually a part of me. The personality unconsciously tricked me into believing I was separate from God. I find Satan to be symbolic of the personality although this also has to do with a collective consciousness too. But once I knew my true identity I no longer had to feel so attached to the personality. I knew I was one with something much bigger and better. "Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house." Matthew 12:29 So it was the soul that broke the bonds and the personality did not unconsciously run my life to such a degree that I was running away from what is eternal and infinite by holding on to beliefs. The personality becomes a slave to something more powerful than itself. "The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." Psalm 110:1

Well I think we are separate from God; this life we all now live certainly is no example of being in unity with God. Having the gift of life, we are not separated from God there; having a consciousness, we share that with God, but in all other areas, in my view, we are separate from God. In 1 John 1:5, God is light, in him is no darkness. To be combined with God in unison , the darkness would have to be removed from the human. I know of no such human.
 

Apple7

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Exactly. Eternal Life is Conditional on having the Son. The unrighteous will not have eternal life, they will not be alive forever in hell being tormented alive forever while they are dead. They do not have eternal life at all.

Scripture seems to indicate, however, that the unrighteous are conscious of their predicament of eternal death (i.e. separation from God).
 

Apple7

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I've found the moral of the story is that Satan is the part of us that tricks us into feeling separate from God. I think this is another lesson we tend to overlook in favor of something more convenient. I was too proud to admit that I was actively identifying with the personality and that Satan was actually a part of me. The personality unconsciously tricked me into believing I was separate from God. I find Satan to be symbolic of the personality although this also has to do with a collective consciousness too. But once I knew my true identity I no longer had to feel so attached to the personality. I knew I was one with something much bigger and better. "Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house." Matthew 12:29 So it was the soul that broke the bonds and the personality did not unconsciously run my life to such a degree that I was running away from what is eternal and infinite by holding on to beliefs. The personality becomes a slave to something more powerful than itself. "The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." Psalm 110:1


Satan was bound at The Cross - thus, he has no direct, personal control over anyone at this time.

Satan's 'power' today is through his minions, the demons.
 

Mickiel

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Sin is the only civil reason why a human could be denied a life in God's Kingdom, or to be killed for eternity. Sin has been removed! 1 John 2:2, Jesus has all sin covered.

Hello!
 

Prizebeatz1

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Scripture?

Its funny you should bring that up:

The stone that the builders rejected has now become the cornerstone. Psalm 118:22. And why is the soul not included in the Trinity? I guess someone didn't think the divinity within was important enough, huh?

What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Mark 8:36
 

Apple7

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Its funny you should bring that up:

The stone that the builders rejected has now become the cornerstone. Psalm 118:22.

And?

God The Father is also referred to as a stumbling stone (Isa 8.14, etc,).



And why is the soul not included in the Trinity?
I guess someone didn't think the divinity within was important enough, huh?

What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Mark 8:36

Define 'soul'.
 

Mickiel

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I kind of enjoy the word of God and dissecting it; lets look at Matt. 24:21 and examine it much closer; " For then shall be Great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of time, no, nor shall ever be again!" Here Jesus completely destroys the concept of eternal hell punishing, and yet its hardly noticed. According to Jesus, this coming period of tribulation will be the worse thing humanity has ever faced, or ever will! Now common sense tells us that if the Christian version of eternal hell punishing were true, NOTHING could ever compare to it; not even come close! So either Jesus did not know what he was talking about, or the Christians don't know.

Its academic!
 

patrick jane

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I kind of enjoy the word of God and dissecting it; lets look at Matt. 24:21 and examine it much closer; " For then shall be Great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of time, no, nor shall ever be again!" Here Jesus completely destroys the concept of eternal hell punishing, and yet its hardly noticed. According to Jesus, this coming period of tribulation will be the worse thing humanity has ever faced, or ever will! Now common sense tells us that if the Christian version of eternal hell punishing were true, NOTHING could ever compare to it; not even come close! So either Jesus did not know what he was talking about, or the Christians don't know.

Its academic!

Then you really believe there's not much of a hell, or no hell at all.
 

Apple7

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Apple7: ‘Why not defend anything you post?’

Mickiel: ‘Me mission is to post 6,000 verses.’

Apple7: ‘Can you at least defend one verse that you post from your Trinitarian rendering?’

Mickiel: ‘No. Me mission is to post 6,000 verses, and that is all.’
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
God rules out of his divine nature which is love, by divine wisdom. Therefore his judgments are wholly fair, equitable, balancing justice with mercy....and don't forget that justice is tempered by mercy, since Love's will is that all be saved. You discount the love and mercy of God which is INFINITE, and you deny the law of progress as well, since all potentials are to ultimately be fulfilled in the divine plan of creation, unless something could thwart or sabotage the divine will (in this case, either free will, or if a soul suffers the 'second death' {disintegration/ eternal 'death'} ).
your god of karma but not the real God

Luk 12:5 But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!
Luk_19:27 But those who are my enemies, who did not desire that I should reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me.

Num 16:33 So they and all that belonged to them went down alive into Sheol, and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly.

Because assuming that God is going to condemn me or anyone else to an 'eternity of punishment' is asinine. Clear enough? I've already refuted your translations and interpretations of Matt. 25:46
you tried and failed to refute Matt. 25:46

if karma were true Jesus would not have had to die

God was crucified for our sins
which was the only way to pay for sins
that deserve eternal punishment

(and elsewhere) on a textual-criticism level alone, besides expounding on the moral and philosophical problems with ECT. It doesn't hold, it makes 'God' into a morbid spectacle of the grossest injustice because God's will which is born out of his very nature (remember He is Love) is not fulfilled and unsatisfied by condemning a soul to ECT, it makes no sense whatsoever, and makes 'God' out to be an indifferent heinous callous unforgiving unloving Being. This traditional concept of eternal hellfire/punishment has done more HARM than good over the centuries,...its indignant. As a person of decency and trusting that 'God' has given me a conscience, intelligence and his own Spirit for discerning, I cannot accept your insidious doctrine which defames Love.

you don't have God's Holy spirit
your all about interpreting the bible by karma
I will mock karma as it leads people to hell

Pro_14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.
 

WeberHome

New member
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Christ spoke of earthly circumstances in the 24th of Matthew, rather than
circumstances in the afterlife. Ergo: his statement in verse 21 contains no
comparisons to circumstances in hell.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
I am curious, how many other people have you sent to your hell?
zero
Also, do you get any pleasure out of pronouncing people into your hell?
Rev_6:10 They cried out with a loud voice, "O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"
 

Mickiel

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Then you really believe there's not much of a hell, or no hell at all.



Well I believe the hell mentioned in the bible so few times, is simply the physical grave. Hell is mentioned only 31 times in the OT, each of those times its the Hebrew word " Sheol", and no one is ever threatened with eternal hell punishing in the entire OT.

Hell is only mentioned 23 times in the NT; 12 of those times its" Gehanna" a physical valley outside of Jerusalem where they burnt refuse all the time. 10 times its " Hades', still the physical grave. Only one time in the entire bible is hell ever mentioned and compared to a place of torment, and that is 2 Pet. 2:4, the hell there is " Tartaros", and it clearly is only for demons.

Hell has SERIOUSLY been " Mistranslated" in scripture. In fact, most modern bibles totally exclude the term altogether, notice;

http://www.thehypertexts.com/How many tines is hell mentioned in the Bible.htm
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Well I believe the hell mentioned in the bible so few times, is simply the physical grave. Hell is mentioned only 31 times in the OT, each of those times its the Hebrew word " Sheol", and no one is ever threatened with eternal hell punishing in the entire OT.

Hell is only mentioned 23 times in the NT; 12 of those times its" Gehanna" a physical valley outside of Jerusalem where they burnt refuse all the time. 10 times its " Hades', still the physical grave. Only one time in the entire bible is hell ever mentioned and compared to a place of torment, and that is 2 Pet. 2:4, the hell there is " Tartaros", and it clearly is only for demons.

Hell has SERIOUSLY been " Mistranslated" in scripture. In fact, most modern bibles totally exclude the term altogether, notice;

Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
 

Mickiel

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Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

But none to everlasting punishing or death. Unless one wishes to add to that scripture , which is what religion has done; its added to it.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
But none to everlasting punishing or death. Unless one wishes to add to that scripture , which is what religion has done; its added to it.

we know it's everlasting punishment because
Jesus said everlasting punishment not religion

everlasting contempt same thing just different way of saying it
 

Mickiel

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we know it's everlasting punishment because
Jesus said everlasting punishment not religion

everlasting contempt same thing just different way of saying it



Oh no Christian, its not the same thing; contempt just means disgrace, punishment is a penalty inflicted for an offense.

And religion is stressing everlasting punishing, not punishment! Big difference.
 

way 2 go

Well-known member
Oh no Christian, its not the same thing; contempt just means disgrace, punishment is a penalty inflicted for an offense.

And religion is stressing everlasting punishing, not punishment! Big difference.

punishment is what they get

Mat 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

shame & everlasting contempt is what they feel

Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
 
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