Why would God need a hell?

[Mickiel]

In Eph. 4:10, " He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all heavens, that he might fill ALL things!" And human salvation is the most important of those All things. Our future is very important to God, and he is smart enough to know how to save us all. He is loving enough for all of us to make it. He is merciful enough, graceful enough, in all things required for universal salvation, God and Christ are enough.

 

[Mickiel]

Right here...

http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4565679&postcount=425

Now...

Continue to post scripture that you don't believe in as evidence for a hell that you don't believe in...


:cigar:

I did not say everyone is wrong but me in that post ; come now, let us reason together, you falsely accused me, now you can't back it up, nor can you admit you were wrong. This is showing me things about you, I wish you would consider being more honest about your behavior.

 

[KingdomRose]

You reject the Biblical God....so why would you think that this pertains to YOU?

Start using your head...

Why direct a criticism directly AT Mikiel? Isn't it good manners to analyze what he said in a respectful manner? Aren't we here to discuss, and not throw barbs?

:sigh:

 

[Mickiel]

Why direct a criticism directly AT Mikiel? Isn't it good manners to analyze what he said in a respectful manner? Aren't we here to discuss, and not throw barbs?

:sigh:

I think disrespect is his way of communicating , it seems to be his strength. I have seen this before in people , they actually need to do it in order to view themselves as being strong; also, sarcasm has become a mainstay in these kinds of conversations. But I understand; I am putting a lot of pressure on Christianity , and some of them are going to respond to that in anger.

 

[Apple7]

Why direct a criticism directly AT Mikiel? Isn't it good manners to analyze what he said in a respectful manner? Aren't we here to discuss, and not throw barbs?

:sigh:

Your buddy does not believe in Biblical scripture...and yet, he posts random verses in hopes of negating a 'hell' that he does not believe even exists....

This is kind of like JW's...spending vast amounts of time and energy into 'proving' something which they do not believe even exists...

Laughable, at best...

 

[KingdomRose]

Greetings Apple7,

Did you know that the truth is getting scarce? I was looking at something God once said in Amos 8:11, " Behold, the days come, says the Lord, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread and water, but of hearing the word of the Lord."

Here God reveals that he himself will blind humans to spiritual knowledge, close their ears to the truth. So God is also behind the reason why people are unbelievers, another reason he would not condemn them.

I truly think that the understanding of that verse in Amos is that He will ALLOW a famine in the land "of hearing the word of the LORD." He doesn't cause this famine of truth. Why would He ever say something like that when He wants everyone to come to a knowledge of the truth? Jesus hand-picked Paul to speak for Him, and what does Paul say to the Philippians? "And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment." (Philippians 1:9, NASB) That reflects how Jesus and Jehovah feel.

 

[Mickiel]

Doctrines like punishing humans forever, need to be pressured, because it places more darkness on a gift that is pure light. A gift of love given by God is being systematically tainted by this giant religion.

 

[Totton Linnet]

Doctrines like punishing humans forever, need to be pressured, because it places more darkness on a gift that is pure light. A gift of love given by God is being systematically tainted by this giant religion.

You cain't force people to accept love, when they saw God's love in Christ they nailed Him to a tree.

They hate God, they hate His love.

 

[Mickiel]

I truly think that the understanding of that verse in Amos is that He will ALLOW a famine in the land "of hearing the word of the LORD." He doesn't cause this famine of truth. Why would He ever say something like that when He wants everyone to come to a knowledge of the truth? Jesus hand-picked Paul to speak for Him, and what does Paul say to the Philippians? "And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in real knowledge and all discernment." (Philippians 1:9, NASB) That reflects how Jesus and Jehovah feel.

God wants everyone to come to the knowledge of the truth, just not yet. And God most certainly will blind humans to the truth, and only he can open a human to see the truth. In Romans 11:32, God blinds all humans in unbelief, only that he can " Later" show mercy to them all. This is WHY humans do not believe the things in scripture that they should; they just can't see it; and God is involved in that.

 

[KingdomRose]

Is 48:22

But God IS a Being of peace. That is what He wants for humans. The Scripture you cite is speaking about the WICKED. It is good that God will not let the wicked have peace, because they cause all of the problems in this world. They have to be removed before there can be any real peace!

Jehovah has already planned for a peaceful world, and it will come about.

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on his shoulders....There will be no end to the increase of his government or of peace." (Isaiah 9:6,7, NASB)

 

[Mickiel]

You cain't force people to accept love, when they saw God's love in Christ they nailed Him to a tree.

They hate God, they hate His love.

Yes you can force people to accept love ; and that is exactly what God will do to this planet when he returns, and the book of Revelations is full of the force God will use. God is going to kill one third of the humans on this planet and one third of all the animals, Rev. 8 and 9th chapters. That's a lot of killing, an incredible amount of force. And that force will open the hearts of humanity.

 

[bsmitts]

Excuse me. Haven't you heard? The story of Jesus is symbolism for the soul. It's not literal. The Father and the Son are one because the soul is one with God. This is the message of the Gospels but man has interpreted it to mean something else. It's profitable for those in power and it's easy, convenient and more palatable to the masses who don't want to do the necessary inner work to understand and connect with the soul. There's nothing that can replace the source of our infinite self-worth. All substitutes leave a gaping hole which can be felt as the fear of letting go of whatever we are holding onto to avoid feelings of worthlessness. Holding onto a belief is evidence that we feel worthless. For example, we hang on for dear life and won't let go because we think we are nothing without Jesus. It's just the opposite.

Your deceived

 

[KingdomRose]

Why would God need the Christian hell? That would be a credit card for eternal darkness. Jesus is the light, and I bear witness that light is for all of humanity. John 1:7, " The same came as a witness, to bear witness of the light, that ALL men through him may believe." Notice again the scriptures speaking in terms of " All"; including those that Christianity excludes.

They MAY believe, Mikiel, if they CHOOSE to. The light is there to be had, and men must decide for themselves if they want it. It has always been so. Jehovah said to the Israelites:

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live." (Deuteronomy 30:19, NASB)

 

[KingdomRose]

Why would a God need a religious constructed hell? Why would sinful humanity need a gospel that preached this sadistic doom? Why would a religion expose their children to that abuse?

I tell you, the sick concept of eternal hell punishing is evidence that satan has deceived the world.

Well, that is certainly true! (I John 5:19; Revelation 12:9) And doesn't the spurious idea of hell-fire blend right in with Satan's personality? Roasting people is not part of Jehovah's way of doing things at all. Things like that don't cross His mind. (Jeremiah 7:31)

 

[KingdomRose]

Greetings Apple 7, I hold no interest in responding with insults to your insults, I have moved pass that in my maturity, and my conversation holds its own strength, I do not need to insult people in order to be strong in my views. I wish you well in your attempts to communicate with others.

Why would God need a hell? And why would he pick the Christian hell out from all the other hells?

He doesn't need a "hell," and the so-called Christian hell is actually gotten FROM "all the other hells," which are purely pagan.

 

[Mickiel]

They MAY believe, Mikiel, if they CHOOSE to. The light is there to be had, and men must decide for themselves if they want it. It has always been so. Jehovah said to the Israelites:

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live." (Deuteronomy 30:19, NASB)

I don't believe that God gives salvation based on human choice, or leaves it all up to us, no. No, no, that is not the way of God. Its not in man to make the right choice and walk the right path, Jer. 10:23, Prov. 20:24. A human could not even believe in God, if God did not give them that mindset. Phil. 2:13, " For it is God which works in you BOTH to will and do his good pleasure." Its God that manipulates the human will to choose right, we do NOT do that on our own. In him we live, move and have our being; its all on him. No human can take credit for their salvation; but this free will choice teaching is trying to teach believers that they can take credit for " Making the right choice."

 

[Apple7]

But God IS a Being of peace. That is what He wants for humans. The Scripture you cite is speaking about the WICKED. It is good that God will not let the wicked have peace, because they cause all of the problems in this world. They have to be removed before there can be any real peace!

Jehovah has already planned for a peaceful world, and it will come about.

"For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; and the government will rest on his shoulders....There will be no end to the increase of his government or of peace." (Isaiah 9:6,7, NASB)

Why did you truncate the verse, sister?!

The part that you willfully ignored states that The Son is the Mighty God!

Yes...run from it sister.....run...

 

[KingdomRose]

I guess this means you are not willing to admit I never said what you claimed I did. In this conversation, I am requesting that you do not accuse me of saying things that I have not; I will treat you the same way.

That being said, why would a being like God, need a pain pit for humans in eternity? And why has the religions who have this surreal doctrine of hell, gotten away with this insult and fantasy for so long?

Because the religions that teach hell-fire are in thick with the political elements of this world. They scratch each others' backs. In fact, the world empire of false religion is pictured as riding on the back of these political elements, in Revelation. Religion keeps people scared by teaching them this ****-a-mamie doctrine of hell-fire, and they have achieved a great deal of control over people because of the fear. The political heads of state love this because Religion is their buddy, and when Religion has control there is more of a pacifism within the populations toward their governments. Religion says: we'll calm the people.....you give us privileges and perks.

So the people keep giving their money to the churches to get out of purgatory, and they feel safe with their priests telling them they're OK as long as they keep filling the coffers. Nobody realizes it's all a big charade to keep them under control.

:devil:

 

[Mickiel]

Because the religions that teach hell-fire are in thick with the political elements of this world. They scratch each others' backs. In fact, the world empire of false religion is pictured as riding on the back of these political elements, in Revelation. Religion keeps people scared by teaching them this ****-a-mamie doctrine of hell-fire, and they have achieved a great deal of control over people because of the fear. The political heads of state love this because Religion is their buddy, and when Religion has control there is more of a pacifism within the populations toward their governments. Religion says: we'll calm the people.....you give us privileges and perks.

So the people keep giving their money to the churches to get out of purgatory, and they feel safe with their priests telling them they're OK as long as they keep filling the coffers. Nobody realizes it's all a big charade to keep them under control.

:devil:

I think Christianity is the biggest part of this giant false religion, they are a church of God in deception. They came from the first church in Rome, and Christianity now, looks nothing like it did back then.

 

[KingdomRose]

In Eph. 4:10, " He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all heavens, that he might fill ALL things!" And human salvation is the most important of those All things. Our future is very important to God, and he is smart enough to know how to save us all. He is loving enough for all of us to make it. He is merciful enough, graceful enough, in all things required for universal salvation, God and Christ are enough.

Yes they are, but they don't force anyone to love them. There will be people who will not change.

"Yet a little while and the wicked man will be no more; and you will look carefully for his place and he will not be there...The wicked plots against the righteous and gnashes at him with his teeth. The Lord laughs at him, for He sees his day coming." (Psalm 37:10,12,13, NASB)

"Though the wicked is shown favor, he does not learn righteousness; he deals unjustly in the land of uprightness, and does not perceive the majesty of the LORD." (Isaiah 26:10, NASB)

So even if the wicked were given a chance to live in the paradise earth that is foretold, he will not be good. He will continue to "deal unjustly."