It does seem a bit much for roughly 85 years on earth.
Why would God need a hell?
- Thread starter Mickiel
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It does seem a bit much for roughly 85 years on earth.
Prizebeatz1
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You reason that there is a hell because you have already fallen into it. You are projecting it onto the world around you and trying to bring other people down with you. That is a classic symptom you are identified with the enemy. You have fallen into your own man-made trap "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword" (Matthew 26:52). You can't fool all the people all the time.
Mickiel
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Well it does Patrick, if one would remove the blinders from their common sense and evaluate it seriously. It would not be fair if we still lived as long as Adam did, 900 years.
Lets say 900 years of straight sinning;
Then sentenced to 999,999,888 billion years plus infinity of constant punishing!
Come on now; please. Lies just seem like perverted truth now.
Mickiel
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Why would God need a hell? You think he has a predestined quota to meet? You know, he needs to ship an amount of human meat to the misery market? Is he going to keep the meat on Ice to preserve it; you know, the hot Ice, that will last in the fire? Will he let them wear fire proof boots since they have to stand up for all eternity. Will they be allowed bathroom breaks, or must they urinate where they stand? Its going to get quite messy, so will angels be housekeepers in hell? Or will the human waste just be burnt and sterilized.
Will they be given water breaks to drink, or food to eat, or do we just starve them into a death life coma? Where the are conscious, but dying of thirst. But we can't let them die, so an angelic medical team has to be constantly employed; we can't have any of them dying on us, what fun is it torturing dead or sick people? So hell has to have a health plan.
These " Super Sufferers" are going to need special brains, so they won't go mad; special internal organs that need super qualities, their hearts, Lungs, kidneys and colons must be of the highest quality to last 99 trillion years and on into infinity. Their eyes have to be recreated and super designed to last in the lake. The ears and nose has to be extraordinary, so they can see the suffering, feel it and hear the others suffering.
You Christians better design this right.
Will they be given water breaks to drink, or food to eat, or do we just starve them into a death life coma? Where the are conscious, but dying of thirst. But we can't let them die, so an angelic medical team has to be constantly employed; we can't have any of them dying on us, what fun is it torturing dead or sick people? So hell has to have a health plan.
These " Super Sufferers" are going to need special brains, so they won't go mad; special internal organs that need super qualities, their hearts, Lungs, kidneys and colons must be of the highest quality to last 99 trillion years and on into infinity. Their eyes have to be recreated and super designed to last in the lake. The ears and nose has to be extraordinary, so they can see the suffering, feel it and hear the others suffering.
You Christians better design this right.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
High maintenance hell...........
High maintenance hell...........
I'll say this satire hits the spot as near comical, although there is nothing funny about the belief of eternal hellfire. Perhaps this will wake some folks up to the tyranny of it.
High maintenance hell...........
I'll say this satire hits the spot as near comical, although there is nothing funny about the belief of eternal hellfire. Perhaps this will wake some folks up to the tyranny of it.
The most effective comedy always has some well known truth behind what is either said or portrayed. By truth in this case I do not mean ECT but rather how he nailed the fact that just about everyone who believes in ECT always conjures up the mental imagery of literal physical bodies being cast into literal hell fire and then being consciously tormented in literal fiery flames for all eternity. This fact is shown true by nearly any and all artwork and imagery that may be found concerning the concept of hell. You will invariably see literal physical bodies of people either walking about in hell fire, swimming around in hell fire, or being cast into a gaping chasm of hell fire. This seems pretty much a dead giveaway that the mindset is completely carnal. Apparently some even think the condemned will still be fully clothed when the sentence is carried out.
http://www.christianmillennium.com/topics/fire_and_brimstone.html
Although in my quick search I did see some image files with skeletons walking around in hell fire torment, (with a "no swimming" sign posted in the foreground) so I guess they are not all completely "fleshly" minded after all. :crackup:
Ben Masada
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He doesn't but, it depends on the kind of hell you are talking about. If it is the Greek version of "Hades" which was copied by Christianity, only the Greek gods of the Olympian pantheon of Mythology needed it, and now Christianity to keep the Christian mind under control. Now, the Jewish Sheol version of hell is needed only so that we have a place to rest forever. That's what we call the grave.
Mickiel
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With Christianity the grave has morphed into a living pit of misery and super power. This new hell would no doubt be a very powerful place. The ground the fire comes out of must be a super combination of lighter fluid, fuel, dirt and some kind of combustion material. It has to be alive, because it self generates the flames forever! No fire could burn forever, unless it was alive forever, that is the only way it could not go out. It has to be a power unto itself.
Even our great sun will eventually burn out. To be an everlasting life fire, In my view, God must give it eternal life itself. God already has eternal flames on his throne, they are Holy; to then suggest that he will make the Christian hell fire eternal, is suggesting that he will make it Holy. To make a place of torment holy, is sheer blasphemy! A railing accusation against God. Anything everlasting has to have been created by Christ, who in Colossians created all things. Christianity is literally stunning the path to the truth, warping it masterfully and creating the greatest level of human condemnation possible, with their planet of pain. Their putting horns on God's head, making him the producer of mythical misery too horrid to imagine.
The true image of heavenly fire is totally warped and misconceived. There is a lot of fire in heaven , and all of it is beautiful , powerful, Holy, beneficial, and justifying. I speculate that there are several different lakes of fire, and I think one of them is used to swim in, recreational. And one is used for the healing of humans as they are being : "Turned!"
You actually have this wrong.
Jesus didn't say "Unless you repent, you shall go to hell".
What Jesus actually said was "Unless you repent, you will likewise PERISH". The unrepentant will not be sent to hell where they will be tortured alive forever and ever. The unrepentant will perish just like Jesus said. You can read what Jesus said in Luke 13:3.
I'm here to help.
Mickiel
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I think when Jesus said " Perish", he meant they would be " Ruined"; but that's just my view of it. I don't personally have a taste for eternal punishing or perishing, that is not " In my conscious life", its not how I think, or how I am, and all that has a bearing on how we interpret the bible. In John 12:47 Jesus speaks, but no one listens to him; he teaches, " And if any man hears my words and does not believe in me, I am not going to judge him; because I did not come here to judge the world, I came to save the World!" Because of my personal life, what exist in my conscious mind, how I am, what I have experienced, all that comes into play when I look at scripture. A person can actually see what THEY want to see. They then think Jesus would do what they would do to unbelievers.
So the mindset of punishing them forever, or killing them, is a mind that would really do that, and they cannot see Jesus teaching that he would not do it. He said he did not come here to do that; he said he came here to save the WORLD! Not to punish or kill it. The world in that scripture is people! Why create billions of people, only to fashion a salvation that is a survival of the fittest program , and then expose them to a world of sin, only to punish them or kill them forever, just for not being able to stand up to the sin? Well a very harsh person would do that, could see that in scripture. And they think God is like that, a serious mistake in judging the ways and means of God.
God is not like that; don't you believe that about him.
Mickiel
New member
The first love that believers lost is love for people and the gospel that announced they are saved. 1 John 3:11, " For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another." Love does not preach a hell fire message. When you love, you forgive and help and support.
The scripture count in thread is 871.
The scripture count in thread is 871.
Prizebeatz1
New member
I think the problem lies in lack of self-love. One cannot love others if they cannot love themselves. This lack of self-love is projected by the personality because it's too painful and most people don't know it to be a problem in the first place. I used to be one those pretending that lack of self-love was not really the issue. I tried to block it out of my awareness by rationalizing that Jesus could take away my sins. That gave me the impression that I didn't have to worry about it. It's a very tricky thing. The personality blends well into the background and comes up with all kinds of excuses not to pay attention to its shame and guilt. Remember the beginning of the movie "Passion of Christ" where the devil is tempting Jesus saying the crucifixion will be too painful? This is what this points to. The personality doesn't believe in itself. It doesn't believe it is good enough to overcome its stuck-ness because it doesn't know the soul. So it stays attached to the image of itself as a helpless child. Or it will swing to the opposite extreme and attach itself to the image of being a strong powerful adult. Neither of them is really us. Who we really are is the soul. It's impossible to detect the falsehood of the personality without first realizing the true identity of the soul. This is how we know God and the soul are one. Because all things are possible with God.
Mickiel
New member
Well I think self love should be a scanned alter ego that we need, and need to keep a proper balance of it. We should love ourselves, God made our self. I think one of the sure tricks of satan is to get a human to hate themselves; and when you have a low opinion of yourself, its frightening easy to view others that way. It is a very tricky thing, because nothing is uglier than an over sized opinion of yourself.
I also think the personality comes into play as to how people interpret the bible; they bring their own life's mess into how they are reading a Holy word. They take a look at the bible, using their personality as a battery to puff up eternal hell, like they puff themselves up. And satan just sits there and thinks, " Right on for the Darkness!"
:yawn: Ac 20:20
:yawn: Love tells the truth (Jn 8:32). :juggle:
"1 Jn 3:11. the message—“announcement,” as of something good; not a mere command, as the law. The Gospel message of Him who loved us, announced by His servants, is, that we love the brethren; not here all mankind, but those who are our brethren in Christ, children of the same family of God, of whom we have been born anew.
12. who—not in the Greek.
of that wicked one—Translate, “evil one,” to accord with “Because his own works were evil.” Compare 1 Jn 3:8, “of the devil,” in contrast to “of God,” 1 Jn 3:10." Jamieson, R., Fausset, A. R., & Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (Vol. 2, p. 532). Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.
:yawn: We forgive men when they repent (Lk 17:3). God forgives when men when they repent (Mt 3:2, Ac 9:35).
See:
"Stop Me! Before I Forgive Again..." by Bob Enyart
:yawn: Ad infinitum Eph 4:14
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Elsewhere Jesus tells us to forgive, so that we may be forgiven. (There are no conditions implied). A person may not repent,....you are still to forgive them for your own benefit, so God may forgive you lest you close the door of freedom by unforgiveness. You do your part trying to reconcile, and then leave the rest to God.
Prizebeatz1
New member
Yes. That puffing up of the personality is the false version of self-worth. It comes from an imposter who is trying to emulate the feeling of true self-worth with a false version of the real thing. True self-worth cannot be replaced, however.
Mickiel
New member
Didn't you choose to live in filth your whole life, anyway? :Shimei: 2 Pe 2:22
I hope and pray, through Jesus Christ our Lord, that I never even say anything like this to another human being. I would not want a religion that motivated me to speak like that.
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