ECT Why was the Sabbath made for man.

[God's Truth]

oh wow...oh my

John 14: 3 ​

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that when your body dies I made it possible you can join me as a spirit, so that where I am, there ye may be also.

Had to make some changes for it to say what you want it to say...you know add/subtract as you did to what actually was there

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Jesus had to die and rise again and go to heaven before we could receive his Spirit, at which time we are placed in him and get to go after dying in the flesh.

The amount of stumbling you cause around here is astounding...

Jesus is the Rock people stumble over. Thank you.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Jesus is the Rock people stumble over. Thank you.

So then why do you keep trying to take His place?

 

[God's Truth]

So then why do you keep trying to take His place?

1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

 

[JudgeRightly]

1 Peter 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Again, WHY DO YOU KEEP TRYING TO TAKE HIS PLACE?

 

[God's Truth]

Again, WHY DO YOU KEEP TRYING TO TAKE HIS PLACE?

Romans 6:6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,

 

[JudgeRightly]

Romans 6:6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,

So why do you keep trying to raise it back up?

 

[clefty]

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Jesus had to die

He HAD to? Why? just change the Law...I mean you insist it can be...

and rise again

well if the Law was abolished when He died...well maybe then that which secured HIS resurrection was also destroyed...His guarantee the LAW was broken...Just as you claimed His Sabbath was...which is a SIN...which would invalidate Him as perfect sacrifice...

and go to heaven before we could receive his Spirit,

say wut? Go to heaven when? As first fruits that following sunday or His ascension?

And to receive His Spirit...hmmm thought it was the Father’s or a trinitarian self existent one...you know the Helper the Comforter...Jesus did NOT say I will send you My Spirit...but you say now the Son has a spirit too...ok diversion maybe...

at which time we are placed in him

literally? like physically inside another Person...because that is the issue after death...where are we literally?

and get to go after dying in the flesh.

hmmm with physical bodies or just spirit...odd reward if just spirits...floating about not being able to hug or kiss in greeting or eat of the tree or pet the Lion...sounds horrible

Jesus is the Rock people stumble over. Thank you.

ummm nope...nobody thought He taught your at death we go to heaven as spirit nonsense...the fight amongst Jews was does resurrection actually happen at all...

IS WHY HE COMES BACK again HERE to receive us...we are not floating up there to ghost about mansions He has prepared for us...what good are physical buildings to spirits? LOL

So HE COMES BACK HERE TO RECEIVE US you know, at the LAST TRUMP...the second coming, the first resurrection...that we might be there where He is...physically literally with a new body having PUT ON immortality as we are STILL NOT IMMORTAL...

Nothing there at all about His coming back with our conscious spirits following Him to reanimate and reinsert into our bodies which rise from the ground...

Our SPIRITS are NOT IMMORTAL...another lie you add to His word...

He does NOT cause us that stumbling...but you and your idolatry does...

 

[God's Truth]

And to receive His Spirit...hmmm thought it was the Father’s or a trinitarian self existent one...you know the Helper the Comforter...Jesus did NOT say I will send you My Spirit...but you say now the Son has a spirit too...ok diversion maybe...

You don't believe Jesus has a Spirit?

Jesus is the Spirit. I gave you scripture.

IS WHY HE COMES BACK again HERE to receive us...we are not floating up there to ghost about mansions He has prepared for us...what good are physical buildings to spirits? LOL

Flesh and blood do not go to heaven. The saved go to heaven with Jesus after they die physically.

So HE COMES BACK HERE TO RECEIVE US you know, at the LAST TRUMP...the second coming, the first resurrection...that we might be there where He is...physically literally with a new body having PUT ON immortality as we are STILL NOT IMMORTAL...

When Jesus comes again it will be to raise the dead.

Nothing there at all about His coming back with our conscious spirits following Him to reanimate and reinsert into our bodies which rise from the ground...

Jesus brings the spirits of those who are with him in heaven and he raises them with new bodies..

1 Thessalonians 4
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


This scripture shows there are spirits in heaven.

Ephesians 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,


This scripture proves that the spirit of people are in heaven.

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,

Our SPIRITS are NOT IMMORTAL...another lie you add to His word...

Spirits don't die.


Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cane did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.

1 Peter 3:19-20 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

1 Peter 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

 

[clefty]

You don't believe Jesus has a Spirit?

given to Him by His Father...only His Father is Immortal is why the Son is begotten IN Spirit...the ONLY begotten..the rest was created by Spirit and then we were born...

Jesus is the Spirit. I gave you scripture.

has the Spirit to be given...”receive the Spirit” He breathed on them...

Flesh and blood do not go to heaven.

here you go again...1 Corinthians 15:50
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.” Obviously Paul was speaking on corrupted mortal flesh and blood not resurrected incorruptible flesh having put on immortality...

The saved go to heaven with Jesus after they die physically.

is to be shown...you have not...you add that to the Word and omit much else from it...

When Jesus comes again it will be to raise the dead.

Why?...if they are already in heaven? Unburdened by flesh and blood...

Jesus brings the spirits of those who are with him in heaven and he raises them with new bodies..

1 Thessalonians 4
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

which others have NO HOPE...those that do not have a hope of resurrection...why sorrow if immediately they are in heaven...even pagans have that hope...ancestral worship was all the rage back then...

14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

as Yah brought His Son forth from the grave and to return Him to heaven so too will He bring the dead from the earth and to Him in Heaven...

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

of course not we cant prevent them to rise from the grave

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

big whoop if already conscious of their reward in spirit form...LOL as if Yah would award 1/2 prizes...LOL...”you can come up as spirits to watch your family struggle in sin...but the full reward comes later”...

17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

yup caught up in the air after the loud command voice arch angel trumpet call of Yah that is WHEN both dead in Him and alive will ascend...together...those falling asleep centuries ago having already been to heaven

This scripture shows there are spirits in heaven.

yes... I can see how you wish to ADD to the Word this idolatrous embellishment...

Ephesians 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

yup notice it is the whole family in heaven AND earth IS named...SINGULAR and NOT families in heaven...ARE named

ONE family on heaven and earth...not individual families of spirits floating about wondering when they can finally embrace and kiss each other physically...or eat of the tree of life or pet the lion...LOL

This scripture proves that the spirit of people are in heaven.

yup I can see how you wish to Add to the word and subtract from it elsewhere...

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven.

what is in Heaven the NAMES not their spirits...Notice the author did not state “names are written here in heaven” as they ARE NOT in heaven here.

You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,

this is comparative allegory: Mount ZION vs Mount Sinai the PHYSICAL mountain...this theme physical vs spiritual is continued as Mount Sinai was to perfect the flesh but Mt Zion contains the perfected spirits but NOT perfected bodies...they are perfected by the Mediator of verse 24...awaiting the final SHAKING...

The author of Hebrew warns dont refuse Him who speaks as they did at Sinai and did NOT escape 25“...much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks FROM heaven.”

Chapter 12 concludes with a judgement day shaking to separate verse 27 “things that are being shaken as of things that are made” defiled sinful carnal flesh “that the things which cannot be shaken may remain” undefiled righteous perfected by that Mediator of verse 24

28 “Therefore since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken let us have grace that we may serve Yah acceptably with reverence and boldly fear.

29 “For our God is a consuming fire” here on earth...

Yup not in heaven but spirits perfected by Him...still to be shaken free of their sinful bodies

Spirits don't die.

ONE is Immortal and upon death dust returns to the ground the spirit to Who gave it...Eccl 12:7

The soul = dust + spirit

And the soul that sins it shall die Ezekiel 18:4,20

Is why we fear the One which is is able to destroy body and soul Matt 10:28

 

[Ps82]

You said something at the very beginning that actually supports what I believe, but you don't realize it.

I was hoping that you would give up the false beliefs you have about God the Father and Jesus having two different bodies when the scriptures say one body.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;


It is easy, just believe what is written.

There is only one body.

So are you going to stop saying there are two bodies?

There is only one Spirit, so are you going to stop saying there are two?

I actually agree with your scripture quote: "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling."
I agree with your conclusion: "There is only one Spirit." In fact these two truths are the basis for my conclusions about the identity of the Father and the Son.

There is one Spirit: Yes! We refer to him as Elohiym or God in KJV. He is invisible and requires no body to live and move and work. Evidence found in Genesis 1. Yet, he chose to create one body due to his own desires and purposes. The leaders of Israel referred to it and it was said: " They saw the body of heaven in His clearness."
This body belonging to the ONE invisible Spirit can be considered to be the glory of God or God's glory. Especially when it appears powerfully in all his goodness and glory. After all this heavenly body can dwell within intense light and even in fiery furnaces and burning bushes.

Yes, yes, there is only ONE Spirit and ONE bodily form! But God could manifest this ONE bodily presence in multiple realms and intensities. Dreams, open eyed visions while seeing things in heavenly places or future events, and sometimes just out right and plainly. One culminating event was when the Spirit of God manifested his ONE image on earth having the essence of human flesh.

Who was this who was seen in human flesh? He was the ONE God! Isaiah 43:11 tells us that there is no Savior besides God. Without God personally coming in the form of his image named 'the LORD' there could be no Savior.

So how does this affect who is the Father and the Son?

ONE: ONE Spirit of God had only ONE image. In the OT people saw the ONE image belonging to the invisible God and referred to it as LORD/YHWH/Jehovah/God Almighty for a few examples ...[BTW, I loved your references for me to his being called Father in the OT. I had not run across those.]

TWO: This heavenly form belonging to the ONE God is known as the Father LORD, BUT ... but who was simultaneously with the Father from the beginning? THE WORD! How do I describe 'the WORD' ? Well, the WORD was God but it was the audible voice of God. Sure God could speak to men by vibrating mountains or rocks or whatever, but often he spoke through the mouth of his heavenly body as well. It was by God's WORD that things were created.

THREE: When God came in flesh we are told that Jesus was also speaking the very words of God ... The WORD had come in flesh and he was with God in the beginning
and was God as well.

FOUR: Now for the conclusion. When anyone saw the Father in the OT they were seeing the form the WORD would have when he was manifested in earth!!! When they had seen the Father they had seen the pre-incarnate form of the Son! Why pre-incarnate? because no one had ever seen God the Son of flesh at that time. They had only seen the presence of God the Father. It took John the B to proclaim the arrival of God the Son. I can diagram the verse John 1:18 to show you how I know this is a fact.

Now, if the invisible but audible WORD was with God and was God and was present, even though he was hidden within that glorious image, when the Father appeared, then the Father might could have said: When you have seen me you have seen the presence of the Son. You future religious people, who say you know me, you will recognize me when I come as the Son of flesh. But if you have never seen my shape or heard my voice you will NOT recognize me. Is it any wonder that Jesus basically said this to religious leaders trying to persecute him: YOU, [religious leaders] have never seen my Father's shape or heard his voice. If you had you would have known who I AM!

WHY? Because Jesus had the same ONE image which God the Spirit had formed for the Father and now used a second time as God the Son!!! This makes so much sense to me because there is ONE Spirit and only ONE image would represent his oneness. The miracle/mystery is that the Spirit used the one image at least twice. To manifest the Father and the Son.

Now the prayer Jesus prayed in John 17 [ which I think he prayed aloud in the ears of his disciples for their and our personal enlightenment] was asking that the Father allow him to have the same glory he had once HAD OR SHARED WITH the Father before the world was. The WORD shared the one image of God with the Father from the start!

I believe that God has allowed the glory of the Father to remain and has allowed the Son to have that same glory for himself as well. This is why the Son can sit at the right hand of his Father in heavenly places. I think they will mostly look so much alike that I plan to remember that MY Lord is the one to the right of The LORD Father.

I know you can't forget the recount King David made which showed this sort dual personality/ or presence of the ONE God to be true. He said: The LORD said unto My Lord. And Moses, distinguishing between the two, made a reference to My Lord as well. Even Abraham must have gotten the idea for Jesus stated: Abraham saw [comprehended] my [future] day and rejoiced in it. For even before Abraham I AM.

You and I do agree so much. I think there is only some minor point that is a stumbling block between your thoughts and mine. Hope you come back and find this post. I still am so busy in life.

 

[God's Truth]

I actually agree with your scripture quote: "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling."
I agree with your conclusion: "There is only one Spirit." In fact these two truths are the basis for my conclusions about the identity of the Father and the Son.

There is one Spirit: Yes! We refer to him as Elohiym or God in KJV. He is invisible and requires no body to live and move and work. Evidence found in Genesis 1. Yet, he chose to create one body due to his own desires and purposes. The leaders of Israel referred to it and it was said: " They saw the body of heaven in His clearness."
This body belonging to the ONE invisible Spirit can be considered to be the glory of God or God's glory. Especially when it appears powerfully in all his goodness and glory. After all this heavenly body can dwell within intense light and even in fiery furnaces and burning bushes.

Yes, yes, there is only ONE Spirit and ONE bodily form! But God could manifest this ONE bodily presence in multiple realms and intensities. Dreams, open eyed visions while seeing things in heavenly places or future events, and sometimes just out right and plainly. One culminating event was when the Spirit of God manifested his ONE image on earth having the essence of human flesh.

Yes, good point, God showing Himself in flesh form, even before He came in the flesh.

Who was this who was seen in human flesh? He was the ONE God! Isaiah 43:11 tells us that there is no Savior besides God. Without God personally coming in the form of his image named 'the LORD' there could be no Savior.
So how does this affect who is the Father and the Son?

ONE: ONE Spirit of God had only ONE image. In the OT people saw the ONE image belonging to the invisible God and referred to it as LORD/YHWH/Jehovah/God Almighty for a few examples ...[BTW, I loved your references for me to his being called Father in the OT. I had not run across those.]

Thank you so much.

TWO: This heavenly form belonging to the ONE God is known as the Father LORD, BUT ... but who was simultaneously with the Father from the beginning?

Yes, it is what I believe. However, still only called the Father because He did not yet come as the Son, the Son yet not revealed.

THE WORD! How do I describe 'the WORD' ? Well, the WORD was God but it was the audible voice of God. Sure God could speak to men by vibrating mountains or rocks or whatever, but often he spoke through the mouth of his heavenly body as well. It was by God's WORD that things were created.

Right; and, this body in which all things were created was the immortal physical body that Jesus would return to heaven to receive again; the type of body we all will receive at the resurrection of the dead.

THREE: When God came in flesh we are told that Jesus was also speaking the very words of God ... The WORD had come in flesh and he was with God in the beginning
and was God as well.

Right: and remember the scriptures that says God, the Father, the one and only God.

So since Jesus is the Word of God, and is God, then he must also be God the Father the one and only God come in the flesh as a man.

FOUR: Now for the conclusion. When anyone saw the Father in the OT they were seeing the form the WORD would have when he was manifested in earth!!!

Yes, because Jesus is the Word of God and was God and there is only one God, not three different making one; but, rather, one God showing Himself to us in three--as the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.

When they had seen the Father they had seen the pre-incarnate form of the Son! Why pre-incarnate? because no one had ever seen God the Son of flesh at that time. They had only seen the presence of God the Father. It took John the B to proclaim the arrival of God the Son. I can diagram the verse John 1:18 to show you how I know this is a fact.

Now, if the invisible but audible WORD was with God and was God and was present, even though he was hidden within that glorious image, when the Father appeared, then the Father might could have said: When you have seen me you have seen the presence of the Son. You future religious people, who say you know me, you will recognize me when I come as the Son of flesh. But if you have never seen my shape or heard my voice you will NOT recognize me.


Is it any wonder that Jesus basically said this to religious leaders trying to persecute him: YOU, [religious leaders] have never seen my Father's shape or heard his voice. If you had you would have known who I AM!

WHY? Because Jesus had the same ONE image which God the Spirit had formed for the Father and now used a second time as God the Son!!! This makes so much sense to me because there is ONE Spirit and only ONE image would represent his oneness. The miracle/mystery is that the Spirit used the one image at least twice. To manifest the Father and the Son.



Now the prayer Jesus prayed in John 17 [ which I think he prayed aloud in the ears of his disciples for their and our personal enlightenment] was asking that the Father allow him to have the same glory he had once HAD OR SHARED WITH the Father before the world was. The WORD shared the one image of God with the Father from the start!

I believe that God has allowed the glory of the Father to remain and has allowed the Son to have that same glory for himself as well. This is why the Son can sit at the right hand of his Father in heavenly places. I think they will mostly look so much alike that I plan to remember that MY Lord is the one to the right of The LORD Father.

Is this where we slightly separate on our revelation; or, are you saying that the Spirit of the Father is just being seen, as I believe? Whenever God the Father showed Himself in bodily form, it was always Jesus' body, later known as Jesus' body. So then, just as a spirit can sometimes be seen by some people, God the Father's Spirit, invisible, was seen, according to that scripture, and, God the Father's body with His Spirit in His body, Jesus Christ, is also seen, and therefore can be said to be sitting at the right hand of the Father.

I know you can't forget the recount King David made which showed this sort dual personality/ or presence of the ONE God to be true. He said: The LORD said unto My Lord. And Moses, distinguishing between the two, made a reference to My Lord as well. Even Abraham must have gotten the idea for Jesus stated: Abraham saw [comprehended] my [future] day and rejoiced in it. For even before Abraham I AM.

You and I do agree so much. I think there is only some minor point that is a stumbling block between your thoughts and mine. Hope you come back and find this post. I still am so busy in life.

It is so nice to meet you. We do agree so much. I am glad we keep finding each other's posts, and hope to hear again from you soon.

 

[Ps82]

Hi God's Truth,

You wrote: "Yes, good point, God showing Himself in flesh form, even before He came in the flesh."

My response: Actually, I did not insinuate that. I basically said this: God created an image for himself and used it to appear as a super natural presence. The children called this image - 'The body of heaven in HIS clearness.' This means that it was not a body of flesh but his body did look what we know as a humanoid presence. The Bible tells us that God's male presence was the original predecessor of our later humanoid presence. HIS image was of a super-natural/heavenly essence where mankind's image was of the natural essence formed of the elements of the ground of this world. Yet, Jesus could say his fleshly bodily form looked like his Father's form ... just missing the glory of the super-natural.

 

[Ps82]

Hello God's Truth,
You wrote: "Yes, it is what I believe. However, still only called the Father because He did not yet come as the Son, the Son yet not revealed."

My response: I agree. Most people can understand that the one who precedes a son is the father. Well, God the spirit appearing with an image, which was also the predecessor of the appearance of the Son, knew from the beginning HE was the Father of a future Son. But I take it one step further. Where was the Son? Answer: The Son was some how with God and was God simultaneously. My only way to explain this is: The Son was there with his Father as the WORD of God. The WORD was invisible; yet, heard as a voice in the ears of men. The manifested presence of the Father only spoke the words of the Spirit/God ... and later Jesus said he only spoke the words of the Father. IOW They speak the same words of God because their words come directly from the ONE Spirit we call elohiym/God. This is how the Father and the Son are ONE ... and one way they are ONE with and as the Spiritual God.

 

[Ps82]

Hello again God's Truth. I only have a few more minutes to write but here goes an attempt to make this reply.

You wrote: Is this where we slightly separate on our revelation; or, are you saying that the Spirit of the Father is just being seen, as I believe? Whenever God the Father showed Himself in bodily form, it was always Jesus' body, later known as Jesus' body. So then, just as a spirit can sometimes be seen by some people, God the Father's Spirit, invisible, was seen, according to that scripture, and, God the Father's body with His Spirit in His body, Jesus Christ, is also seen, and therefore can be said to be sitting at the right hand of the Father.

My response: I have a question for you to consider. Who is the Spirit of the Father? My thoughts are these.
1.) The Spirit is the ONE elohym/God.
2.) The Father is the combination of the invisible living Spirit associated with a physical super-natural visible bodily form. This combination made God a living SOUL. Did you know God speaks of HIS SOUL? Leviticus 26:11-12 And I [God] will set my tabernacle among you: and MY SOUL shall not abhor you. 12 I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
Do you comprehend this according to my conclusions? The word soul in Lev. 26, while speaking of the Father, is the same word used for soul in Gen.2 when speaking of Adam. After the body for Adam had been formed God then breathed the Spirit into that body and male and female became A living soul. Adam was a singular living and appearing soul because Woman had not yet been brought forth. In a similar way The Father in the same manner was a singular-living-appearing-super-natural soul because the Son had not yet been brought forth.
3.) Yes I believe when people saw the visage of the Father they were seeing the likeness of his future Son. This ONE image created by the Spirit was used twice! Once to be seen as a super-natural predecessor Father. Second to be seen as the fleshly Son. The only difference in their visage was that flesh diminished the glory of the Father's presence.
4.) A pure Spirit cannot be seen by human beings. We don't have created eyes created which can see a spirit. Gen. 1:1-3 gives us clues to what the Spirit of God is like. The Spirit resides in deep darkness moving like water within infinity.
5.) This same Spirit, to which the soul of the Father had complete access, is the same Spirit to which the soul of the Son had access. John 3:34-35 For he [Jesus] whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
6.) Who was the Father of the Son? Answer: God
7.) Who was the Son of the Father? Answer: God

I find this insight of how God the Spirit accomplished things and worked through the Father and the Son very helpful when I'm reading scripture.

Must go for now.

 

[God's Truth]

Hi God's Truth,

You wrote: "Yes, good point, God showing Himself in flesh form, even before He came in the flesh."

My response: Actually, I did not insinuate that. I basically said this: God created an image for himself and used it to appear as a super natural presence. The children called this image - 'The body of heaven in HIS clearness.' This means that it was not a body of flesh but his body did look what we know as a humanoid presence. The Bible tells us that God's male presence was the original predecessor of our later humanoid presence. HIS image was of a super-natural/heavenly essence where mankind's image was of the natural essence formed of the elements of the ground of this world. Yet, Jesus could say his fleshly bodily form looked like his Father's form ... just missing the glory of the super-natural.

The Bible says God is an invisible Spirit and made a body, the body of Christ, not yet known as Christ, and then God the Father made everything through that body. The body seen in the Old Testament was Jesus' body which is the Father's body.

One God, one Spirit, one body.

 

[God's Truth]

Hello God's Truth,
You wrote: "Yes, it is what I believe. However, still only called the Father because He did not yet come as the Son, the Son yet not revealed."

My response: I agree. Most people can understand that the one who precedes a son is the father. Well, God the spirit appearing with an image, which was also the predecessor of the appearance of the Son, knew from the beginning HE was the Father of a future Son. But I take it one step further. Where was the Son? Answer: The Son was some how with God and was God simultaneously. My only way to explain this is: The Son was there with his Father as the WORD of God. The WORD was invisible; yet, heard as a voice in the ears of men. The manifested presence of the Father only spoke the words of the Spirit/God ... and later Jesus said he only spoke the words of the Father. IOW They speak the same words of God because their words come directly from the ONE Spirit we call elohiym/God. This is how the Father and the Son are ONE ... and one way they are ONE with and as the Spiritual God.

Well the son was the Father in the Old Testament.

Anytime God's Word is spoken, it is spoken out of God the Father with a body. Jesus is God the Father with a body.

 

[God's Truth]

Hello again God's Truth. I only have a few more minutes to write but here goes an attempt to make this reply.

You wrote: Is this where we slightly separate on our revelation; or, are you saying that the Spirit of the Father is just being seen, as I believe? Whenever God the Father showed Himself in bodily form, it was always Jesus' body, later known as Jesus' body. So then, just as a spirit can sometimes be seen by some people, God the Father's Spirit, invisible, was seen, according to that scripture, and, God the Father's body with His Spirit in His body, Jesus Christ, is also seen, and therefore can be said to be sitting at the right hand of the Father.

My response: I have a question for you to consider. Who is the Spirit of the Father? My thoughts are these.
1.) The Spirit is the ONE elohym/God.
2.) The Father is the combination of the invisible living Spirit associated with a physical super-natural visible bodily form. This combination made God a living SOUL. Did you know God speaks of HIS SOUL? Leviticus 26:11-12 And I [God] will set my tabernacle among you: and MY SOUL shall not abhor you.

Yes, I know the scriptures of God saying He has a soul. The 'soul' is Jesus' body, not yet known as Jesus.

12 I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
Do you comprehend this according to my conclusions? The word soul in Lev. 26, while speaking of the Father, is the same word used for soul in Gen.2 when speaking of Adam. After the body for Adam had been formed God then breathed the Spirit into that body and male and female became A living soul. Adam was a singular living and appearing soul because Woman had not yet been brought forth. In a similar way The Father in the same manner was a singular-living-appearing-super-natural soul because the Son had not yet been brought forth.

God the Father is invisible, without a body, just a Spirit. God the Father made Himself a body---that body is the body of the immortal body of Jesus Christ, the First and the Last--the body God had before coming to earth in the flesh, and the body He received back after rising from the dead and ascending to heaven.
When the invisible God the Father made Himself a body, He still lived in unapproachable light AND now too in the body that He made.

So now you see two, but still the one and only God, now with a soul.

3.) Yes I believe when people saw the visage of the Father they were seeing the likeness of his future Son.


This ONE image created by the Spirit was used twice! Once to be seen as a super-natural predecessor Father. Second to be seen as the fleshly Son.

Well I believe the Father...the Son, gave up that Immortal body in heaven and came in the flesh as the son of God, and then died, raised again, and then ascended to heaven and received that Immortal body he had before coming to earth...the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. We will receive a body like that when we are raised at the resurrection.

The only difference in their visage was that flesh diminished the glory of the Father's presence.
4.) A pure Spirit cannot be seen by human beings. We don't have created eyes created which can see a spirit.

People can see spirits. There are scriptures that tell us that ghosts can be seen.

Gen. 1:1-3 gives us clues to what the Spirit of God is like. The Spirit resides in deep darkness moving like water within infinity.

I do not agree with your beliefs on that. God's Spirit doesn't live in deep darkness.

God's Spirit lives in unapproachable light.

5.) This same Spirit, to which the soul of the Father had complete access,

A soul is a body made alive by a spirit. A soul without a spirit is dead.

So in my beliefs, you said that backwards.

is the same Spirit to which the soul of the Son had access.

The son is God the Father's Spirit with a body.. The Spirit makes the body a living soul.

John 3:34-35 For he [Jesus] whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
6.) Who was the Father of the Son? Answer: God
7.) Who was the Son of the Father? Answer: God

I find this insight of how God the Spirit accomplished things and worked through the Father and the Son very helpful when I'm reading scripture.

I believe that when God the Father came to earth in the flesh---it was HIS SPIRIT in the baby Jesus come as a human in the flesh. As to Jesus' body of flesh, he got that from Mary's side, and as to his Spirit, it is God's Spirit.
Jesus is God the Father made visible---God the Father with a body.

Must go for now.

I hope to hear from you again soon.

 

[Ps82]

The Bible says God is an invisible Spirit and made a body, the body of Christ, not yet known as Christ, and then God the Father made everything through that body. The body seen in the Old Testament was Jesus' body which is the Father's body.

One God, one Spirit, one body.

We are so close to saying the same thing.
You wrote: The Bible says God is an invisible Spirit and made a body ...
My response: Yes


You wrote: The Bible says God is an invisible Spirit and made a body, the body of Christ ...
My response: Yes, in a manner of speaking. God created ONE image and used it twice. That is why God said: Let US make man after OUR image. Plural pronouns mean plural individuals while singular word 'image' means only one image. The one bodily image ,which God created, was to represent the Father and the Son. The image was first super-natural in essence/a body of heaven so to speak. It represented God the Father and yet the future God the Son was only there in the form of God's WORD. The spiritual God created all things by his WORD. It was this living WORD about which John 1:1-3 wrote. He was God and was with God. This living WORD became known as My Lord Jesus the begotten Son of God ... our Messiah. No one had ever seen God the WORD manifested as the fleshly Son until the days when John the Baptist revealed his identity to society. Yet, the Son did look like the Father!


Jesus could rightly say: When you have SEEN ME you have SEEN the Father. They each bore the same bodily image.
In this case the Father could have rightly said: When you have SEEN ME you have SEEN the Son. For we each will bear the same bodily image created by the one Spiritual God. There will be only one difference. I as the Father had/has an eternal heavenly super-natural visage of Glory that dwells within the Light while my Son will have a mortal humanoid visage with the glory hidden by flesh. The Father and the Son are the US and OUR mentioned in Genesis 1:27-27. The singular image mentioned in the same verses is the image which the Spiritual God used twice to represent Himself. The two are the ONE spiritual God who had made a way for himself to be seen visually within creation.

I hope you can see our agreement here. the body God created was the same bodily image that would be used for the Father and the Christ. Just the human flesh made a huge difference.


You wrote: and then God the Father made everything through that body. The body seen in the Old Testament was Jesus' body which is the Father's body.
My response: I would say things in these ways -
1.) Then God the Spirit stopped his work and brought forth the things he had created on the seventh day through the works of The visible living LORD, who appeared within creation bearing the the image which was actually the first creature ever created. [I believe this created creature or image was mentioned in Colossains 1:15 ... the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature. Verses 1-15 lets us know that Jesus also bore that firstborn/first created image.

2.) Abiding with The [visible] LORD God of Genesis 2 was the [invisible audible] WORD of God. They were working together in one accord as God. Though spoken of as two individuals by the use of the plural pronouns US and OUR, they were the ONE God.

Yes, the body seen in the Old Testament, and referred to as The Father, would one day be the body of Jesus as well, BUT the Father did not disappear because the Son was manifested in flesh. In fact, the Father still has his eternal glorious presence to preserve his identity. This is why our risen glorified Lord Jesus was or is able to sit on His right side in heavenly places. I'm figuring they will look a lot alike in all their glorification. I plan to remember My Lord is the one on the right of The LORD.

So much to say with SO MANY words. It can be difficult even then to be perfectly clear when sharing insights! Sigh

 

[Ps82]

Hi God's Truth,
You wrote: God the Father is invisible, without a body, just a Spirit. God the Father made Himself a body---that body is the body of the immortal body of Jesus Christ, the First and the Last--the body God had before coming to earth in the flesh, and the body He received back after rising from the dead and ascending to heaven.
When the invisible God the Father made Himself a body, He still lived in unapproachable light AND now too in the body that He made.

So now you see two, but still the one and only God, now with a soul.

My response: This may be where we differ in our conclusions.
You said God the Father is invisible.
I say God the Spirit is invisible but God the Father is visible. He was even given a name. This name was finally revealed to Moses who wrote the first five books of the Bible. Before the days of Moses God the visible Father was only known as God Almighty ... but His chosen name was ultimately revealed. Some say LORD, some YHWH, and others Jehovah but we see in Exodus that God had a special name chosen for his visible presence.

Exodus 6:2-3 Moses wrote:
2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I AM the LORD. And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty; but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

When God informed Moses of this then he was able to insert God's chosen name in the correct places as he recorded the history in his five books. Watch what appears when you insert the name LORD in a verse while you understand when this name is used it means God has manifested his visible bodily form.

Exodus 3:2,6
2 And the angel [presence] of the LORD appeared unto him [Moses] in a flame of the fire out of the midst of a bush; and he [Moses] looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
6 Moreover he said, I AM the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.

Plain Truth, did you see the LORD Father appear in the flame as did Moses? Moses did not just see a burning bush that didn't burn. He saw God's bodily form in the flames.

It reminds me of the one seen in the fiery furnace ... The king saw a visage of a male person, like a fourth man, who also looked like a son of God, within the flames. This super-natural one was equally able to prevent the three children of Israel from being consumed by the fire. Do you now know who the fourth man who looked like a Son of God was?

The one who appeared in the flames of the bush and in the flames of the furnace was the living image created before all other creatures and chosen by God to represent himself visually within creation. Yes, this special super-natural one was the Father's presence but remember the WORD was with the Father from the beginning while his ultimate visage would remain hidden in the Father for yet a long time until it was to be manifested on earth in human form.

Do many of the things said in the Bible about the LORD Father seem to also be referring, like foreshadows, to the Son? Yes. Why? Because, according to Jesus he, being the WORD of God, and the Father are ONE.

Who is the Son? He is God the Spirit, God the LORD Father, and God the Savior appearing as the begotten Son. Isaiah 43:11 says: I [God the Spirit], even I AM the LORD, beside ME there is no Savior. Here you have a picture of the one God which we describe as the Trinity.

Tired ... will try to find my place so I can discuss some of your points no yet covered. Have a good evening. Thanks for taking time to read my responses.

 

[God's Truth]

We are so close to saying the same thing.
You wrote: The Bible says God is an invisible Spirit and made a body ...
My response: Yes


You wrote: The Bible says God is an invisible Spirit and made a body, the body of Christ ...
My response: Yes, in a manner of speaking. God created ONE image and used it twice. That is why God said: Let US make man after OUR image.

'Our' image doesn't have to mean it was used twice.

Plural pronouns mean plural individuals

A person can be a father and a son.

while singular word 'image' means only one image. The one bodily image ,which God created,

There is only one God and He is the Father.

Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.


Since Jesus is God, he must be that one God the Father come as a son.

was to represent the Father and the Son. The image was first super-natural in essence/a body of heaven so to speak.

The essence is Spirit.

It represented God the Father and yet the future God the Son was only there in the form of God's WORD.

The Word was God. There is only one God, and He is the Father.

The words of God come out of the mouth of the body, the body is the image and is God the Father made visible and is the resurrected body of Christ made first.

The spiritual God created all things by his WORD. It was this living WORD about which John 1:1-3 wrote. He was God and was with God. This living WORD became known as My Lord Jesus the begotten Son of God ... our Messiah. No one had ever seen God the WORD manifested as the fleshly Son until the days when John the Baptist revealed his identity to society. Yet, the Son did look like the Father!

The Son's body is God the Father's body, and that is why when you see the Son you see the Father.

Jesus could rightly say: When you have SEEN ME you have SEEN the Father. They each bore the same bodily image.

They aren't sharing the body. God the Father is just also come as a Son.

In this case the Father could have rightly said: When you have SEEN ME you have SEEN the Son. For we each will bear the same bodily image created by the one Spiritual God.

God is not a separate being from the Father and the Son. God is the Father and the Son.

There will be only one difference. I as the Father had/has an eternal heavenly super-natural visage of Glory that dwells within the Light while my Son will have a mortal humanoid visage with the glory hidden by flesh.

The Bible says both are light.

This is about Jesus.

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.


Jesus is what God the Father did for us. He came as a lamb. What God did for us through Jesus is the who and what we have to go through to get to the Father, to get saved.

The Father and the Son are the US and OUR mentioned in Genesis 1:27-27. The singular image mentioned in the same verses is the image which the Spiritual God used twice to represent Himself. The two are the ONE spiritual God who had made a way for himself to be seen visually within creation.

I hope you can see our agreement here. the body God created was the same bodily image that would be used for the Father and the Christ. Just the human flesh made a huge difference.

When you say it just like that, then we are in agreement; it is just a little different when we explain it. I hope that you can tell me why or why not you don't agree.

You wrote: and then God the Father made everything through that body. The body seen in the Old Testament was Jesus' body which is the Father's body.
My response: I would say things in these ways -
1.) Then God the Spirit stopped his work and brought forth the things he had created on the seventh day through the works of The visible living LORD, who appeared within creation bearing the the image which was actually the first creature ever created. [I believe this created creature or image was mentioned in Colossains 1:15 ... the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature. Verses 1-15 lets us know that Jesus also bore that firstborn/first created image.

And there too, I think we have agreement.

2.) Abiding with The [visible] LORD God of Genesis 2 was the [invisible audible] WORD of God.

I just don't see it that way. The Word is Jesus and Jesus is God made visible. We are our words formed by out physical mouths. Jesus is God the Father made visible with a body.

They were working together in one accord as God. Though spoken of as two individuals by the use of the plural pronouns US and OUR, they were the ONE God.

Yes, the body seen in the Old Testament, and referred to as The Father, would one day be the body of Jesus as well, BUT the Father did not disappear because the Son was manifested in flesh. In fact, the Father still has his eternal glorious presence to preserve his identity. This is why our risen glorified Lord Jesus was or is able to sit on His right side in heavenly places. I'm figuring they will look a lot alike in all their glorification. I plan to remember My Lord is the one on the right of The LORD.

So much to say with SO MANY words. It can be difficult even then to be perfectly clear when sharing insights! Sigh

This is a rare chance for me to get to discuss this so deeply with another person, and such a kind person. It would be good if you could tell me more of what you think about this and what I said.