ECT WHY THE VAIL ??

[Lazy afternoon]

You've never studied the Bible, so you do not know this:


The LORD Jesus came unto his own. Some received him, some did not. Those that received him abode in the Apostles doctrine, and have a spot in the New Jerusalem. Those that rejected the LORD were subject to God's wrath but instead of immediately casting them away he raised up Paul. It is to THESE Jews (and also Gentiles) that Paul was sent.

There were two groups at that time, with different doctrines, different purposes, different destinies, different paths into God's plan.

And, one more thing....put down the commentaries.

No.

There is only one olive tree.

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Gal 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

LA

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

There is only one olive tree.

Yep, and you were never graffed in.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

It is all fulfilled in Christ.

Even Zechariah 5, "this is wickedness"?

 

[Interplanner]

No.

There is only one olive tree.

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Gal 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

LA

Thx for the Ephesians quote. I don't think STP does Ephesians. He's working on that list of Hebrews verses that we are allowed to read. Working on it 3 months now I think.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I don't think STP does Ephesians.

It's perhaps my favorite letter, and it destroys your 1P1P.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Thx for the Ephesians quote. I don't think STP does Ephesians. He's working on that list of Hebrews verses that we are allowed to read. Working on it 3 months now I think.

STP thinks he knows if I am grafted in or not.

LA

 

[Danoh]

We are on the same team, Dan.

The Kingdom program had Jews and some Gentiles. The Body program has Gentiles and some Jews.
IP does not know what he's saying.

Lol - I doubt you and DanP are "on the same team."

Both his understanding of much in Acts and of Romans 16:25 are very different from your obvious Acts 9/Acts 28 Hybrid, bro.

It is why he cited Rm. 16:25 with double exclamation points

I called it right, bro - yours is the obvious result of an over reliance on words "about" by 9/28 Hybrid teachers :chuckle:

 

[Danoh]

Hi and did not , IP claim at one point to be a Dispensatioanait ??

Maybe it was all the College training and FAKE NEWS that turned him aside ??

We see in Acts 21:21 that Paul preached against the Law of Moses , what do you know ?

dan p

His is what happens when even any so called Dispy is "books" and or teachings of men "based."

Because such end up unable to solve for a thing for themselves, they either end up thinking they are able to solve for a thing from within their over reliance, or end up seeking out some other over reliance elsewhere.

 

[Danoh]

Correction - the glory that excelleth that Israel was kept from seeing back in Moses day had been the Shikinah Glory that had reflected from Moses' face.

Spoiler

When he was in the presence of God, he would remove the vail and God's Glory would shine on his face.

The result being kind of like how the Sun changes skin color.

Only in this case, his face would end up radiating the bright light of the Glory of the LORD.

When he was with Israel, he would cover his face with a vail.

The result being their not being able to see said Glory's radiance on his face.

His face was that radiant.

So brilliant they'd end up experiencing a kind of "deer in the head lights" shock, and would fear him.

Exodus 34:29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. 34:30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him. 34:31 And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them. 34:32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the LORD had spoken with him in mount Sinai. 34:33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face. 34:34 But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded. 34:35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

Later, as as they heard and or read the Law, from a heart attitude of unbelief, that coming "glory that should follow" that the Law had described, blinded them.

Talk about staring at too bright a light, not only too long, but unaware that doing so will result in major eidetic damage.

This blinding becoming the tradition they then handed down to the next generation.

Matthew 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying? 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. 15:15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable. 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding? 15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 15:20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

The blind...leading others...down their same blind path...

In every age, and regardless of its' developed gospel at that point in time (progressive revelation), unbelief (failure to simply take God at His Word) is seized on by the god of this world, to blind the mind, lest the light of said developed aspect of the glorious gospel of the Lord, within the particular age, should shine in unto men.

Ever since the first time that mankind failed to simply take God at His Word...

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

2 Corinthians 4:1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 4:2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[DAN P]

Lol - I doubt you and DanP are "on the same team."

Both his understanding of much in Acts and of Romans 16:25 are very different from your obvious Acts 9/Acts 28 Hybrid, bro.

It is why he cited Rm. 16:25 with double exclamation points

I called it right, bro - yours is the obvious result of an over reliance on words "about" by 9/28 Hybrid teachers :chuckle:

Hi and it like I have said , there are DISPENSATIONALIST and DISPENSATIONALISTS and Pauline truth is compromised , every where !!

And Acts 9:6 is a good start and the verb tenses has been a EYE OPENER for me !!

dan p

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

STP thinks he knows if I am grafted in or not.

LA

Yep, it's an impossibility.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Yep, it's an impossibility.

I realize you claim no grafting into the olive tree, nor being under any covenant.

Poor man.

LA

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I realize you claim no grafting into the olive tree, nor being under any covenant.

Poor man.

LA

You cannot get graffed in.
The Olive Tree was hewn down.
You are a fraud.

 

[Danoh]

You cannot get graffed in.
The Olive Tree was hewn down.
You are a fraud.

If Lazy is a fraud on that basis, then by your own words, so are you.

The Olive Tree was not hewn down.

Rather, those Unbelieving branches that had once had access to the generic place of blessing said Tree represents, were broken off because they never were of faith, to begin with.

Again, you are being too wooden in your literalness, bro.

Not to mention, your obvious failure to look at the thing from the various rules of grammar.

http://doctrine.org/the-olive-tree/

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You cannot get graffed in.
The Olive Tree was hewn down.
You are a fraud.

and you are no true Christian to deny the grafting in of all believers into the same olive tree filled with Christ.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

LA

 

[Interplanner]

and you are no true Christian to deny the grafting in of all believers into the same olive tree filled with Christ.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

LA

Put him on ignore, LA

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Put him on ignore, LA

You aren't graffed in, either.

 

[heir]

If Lazy is a fraud on that basis, then by your own words, so are you.

Brother SaulToPaul doesn't believe he is graffed in to anything, so who's the fraud? There is no olive tree to be graffed into today! Those who are in Christ today are identified by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV) having trusted the Lord believing the gospel of the grace of God (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV). Those who Paul was speaking of concerning the grafting in, "wert graffed in" prior to ever hearing Paul's gospel and needed to be established (continue in God's goodness) by Paul's "my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,..." or they too would be cut off!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Brother SaulToPaul doesn't believe he is graffed in to anything, so who's the fraud? There is no olive tree to be graffed into today! Those who are in Christ today are identified by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV) having trusted the Lord believing the gospel of the grace of God (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV). Those who Paul was speaking of concerning the grafting in, "wert graffed in" prior to ever hearing Paul's gospel and needed to be established (continue in God's goodness) by Paul's "my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,..." or they too would be cut off!

Fake news.

LA

 

[Danoh]

Brother SaulToPaul doesn't believe he is graffed in to anything, so who's the fraud? There is no olive tree to be graffed into today! Those who are in Christ today are identified by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV) having trusted the Lord believing the gospel of the grace of God (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV, Ephesians 1:13 KJV, Ephesians 3:6 KJV). Those who Paul was speaking of concerning the grafting in, "wert graffed in" prior to ever hearing Paul's gospel and needed to be established (continue in God's goodness) by Paul's "my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,..." or they too would be cut off!

Lol - more of your confused Hybrid in your incompetence: no wonder you deflected by pretending to take issue with Shawn; his valid 60 page, 15 throughly examined points on just some of yours errors, nailed the coffin shut on your pompous self-delusion :chuckle:

https://forwhatsaiththescriptures.wordpress.com/2015/10/25/acts-9-28-hybrid-theology/