musterion
Well-known member
And do violence to the Word of God. Now that your knowledge and respect for the Bible is clear for all to see, you're on ignore.
ECT Why preterism can never be taken seriously by Bible believers
- Thread starter musterion
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And do violence to the Word of God. Now that your knowledge and respect for the Bible is clear for all to see, you're on ignore.
Wick Stick
Well-known member
I don't suppose you'll see the reply, but I have done the verse no violence.
The verb 'believe' is one of Greek's middle voice verbs, which makes the actor also the recipient of the action. This necessitates that anyone or anything believed be rendered in a prepositional phrase. To that I would add that 'epi' is best translated 'on' rather than 'in.'
The most literal possible rendering is 'believe yourself upon the Lord Jesus Christ,' signifying that one should establish himself upon Christ.
Kinda like the people who believe in Darby's rapture.
Kinda like wimps, man pleasers, like you, who believe in:
... a flat earth, that Jesus Christ is not a man, that everyone is saved, murder,rape, stealing,....are not sins, as "the law was nailed to the cross," and the "appointed times...feasts," are errors in the bible,that signs are invisible, Russell's Roman army is the second coming invention/theory, the resurrection/redemption of the body is not physical,Preterists/AD 70 followers follow infallible men, including Christ rejector Josephus, Genesis 1:1 KJV ff is not literal, all churches are "man made," and thus not scriptural, the cross was "man made," and thus not scriptural, and is not literal, right, little arms devil boy?
Let me guess the habitual liar of TOL's, "response:" I never said....(fill in the blank)," even though I did, you meanie dispie's...You misquoted me...Darby...You are in denial....Darby...."
You pathetic fraud.
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SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
There are a plethora of scriptures concerning the LORD's return.
Test a few of them against 70ad, see how it fails.
HisServant
New member
The Word refers to Jesus... not the Bible. Unless you believe that the Bible existed at and participated in Creation.
The Word is Jesus.
It doesn't fail. What fails is your claim that "the coming of the Lord" refers to two completly different events (rapture & Second Coming).
1 & 2 Thessalonians proves you wrong, and proves Christ Jesus only returned one time, not two like you Dispies claim.
Nowhere in the NT does Jesus, Peter, Paul, Matthew, John, Mark, Luke, the writer of Hebrews, or anyone else even hint that Christ Jesus returns two times like you claim.
This false theory that Christ Jesus returns two times didn't exist before the teenage girl Margaret McDonald had a "vision" that Jesus returned two times.
McDonald told her "vision" to John Nelson Darby, and that's how Dispensationalism began.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
iamaberean
New member
At one time I was like you, couldn't see forest because of the trees. I'm telling you that it is very hard to go against what you think to be true. what is needed is a paradigm shift. I will also tell you that if you can't honestly tell God "I want to have the truth and what ever you show me I will accept it." That is the only way, and don't try to find loop holes.
Oh, that is rich, devil boy...No, what "fails," which has caused you to suffer another fatal death knell, is this "man made" made up jazz, "invention," "theory," concocted by "fallable men:"
"Jesus never physically returned, and never will physically return to planet earth after He ascended to Heaven"-Preterist deceiver Tellalie
vs.
“And that is what happened. The Lord came in a way that everyone could see Him. However, He never touched planet earth, and when this event was over, He then sat on the throne in Heaven NOT on planet earth.”-Tet.
"Everyone" that saw Him, according to Craigie, was Josephus, and Wikipedia. Wait....According to Craigie the Clown, he did not return physically, but all of Jerusalem saw him.. And, according to Craigie the Clown, signs are invisible...
Wait...
Vs.
"Tet is a preterist that believes Christ already returned in 70 AD via the Roman Army."-Tambora, on another TOL thread
"Correct, and thanks for making it clear that it was the Roman army that was His return."-stupid Craigie
"The Roman army destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD. That is what Jesus meant when He said He will return."-Gomer Tet.
Hebrews 9:28 KJV
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Craigie the Clown: The Roman army was looking for him-that is the "them" above. My infallible AD 70/Pteterist "teachers" taught me,like Hank Hanegraaf, from whom I copy'npaste/spam.
Made up, and you again plagiarized that "invention/"theory," and that has been refuted, over, and over, silly, weasel boy, but your pappy devil keeps telling you to spam/deny away.
You're in denial.
Now, devil boy, as you have been asked, for years:
Identify this alleged "everyone," that witnessed/saw this alleged "un physical" Saviour return in AD 70, signs being invisible, and all, according to your AD 70/Preterist "fallable men" "invention"/"theory."
Do be a dear.
The punk won't, as all he will do is mumble, grumble, and bumble, "Darby....Not one person in the history of the world can answer me...Darby...You are in denial...Darby..."
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I admit that you will never convince me that a Roman army matches the many descriptions of the LORD's GLORIOUS RETURN. I know better.
musterion
Well-known member
Who needs Bible when the mind is made up?
Interplanner
Well-known member
To STP and Musterion,
If I recall rightly, D'ism wants people to see complexity, for ex., in splitting up the 70 weeks of years.
There is something admittedly complex about the 'either/or' principle of Mt24A being about 1st century Judaism while B is about the world wide judgement (ie, that the material is either about one setting OR the other) but it is a more organic thing to deal with than a surprise interruption and interjection of a totally different plan, which Eph 3:5 says was not mysterious at all.
In your case, you are saying that the use of the Roman army for judgement upon Israel is the ONLY thing that indicates the return of the Lord. At least that is your impression of Tet. It certainly was an act of judgement on Israel, and any attempt to deviate from that raises huge suspicions about your ability to read the text in their historical setting.
The complexity is that a delay was also mentioned in 2 Pet 3, Mt 24B and Mk 13 (in terms of the master's 4 possible return times).
At the end of the day, the complexity of breaking up the 70 weeks is unsatisfactory, while the delay is the only conclusion that is balanced.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
If one day is a thousand years, add in the standard deviation, carry the one, and adjust by 2%....figurative.
The "delay" was 40 years, not 2,000 years (and still counting)
Here is what Peter said in 2 Peter 3:
(2 Peter 3:3) Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
A few years later, Jude quotes what Peter said:
(Jude 18-19) They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” 19 These are the people who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.
As we see above, "the last days" that Peter spoke of in 2 Peter 3, were taking place when Jude wrote his epistle.
(Isaiah 19:1) See, the Lord rides on a swift cloud
and is coming to Egypt....
STP: "you will never be able to convince me that the Assyrian army matches the description of the Lord coming to Egypt".
History: it was the Assyrian army that was the Lord's coming to Egypt.
When did the Lord come to Egypt ? Teach us Tet
More hypocrisy.
You claim "these last days" means 2,000 years and still counting.
(Heb 1:2) but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.