ECT Why preterism can never be taken seriously by Bible believers

musterion

Well-known member
Preterism is a system of Bible interpretation with two main forks. One fork teaches that some or most Bible prophecy - including prophecies regarding the return of Christ - have been fulfilled. The other says all Bible prophecy has been fulfilled. This is the main identifying feature of preterism. As far as Bible believers are concerned, it should also be seen as preterism's fatal weakness.

The writers of the Bible are held by Bible believers to have spoken the very Words of God. Israel's prophets spoke as they were moved by the Spirit of God (Luke 1:70; 2 Pet 1:21). The disciples were eyewitnesses who attested to Christ's ministry, His death and His resurrection (1 Jn 1:2-3; Acts 1:1-2; 4:20). The apostle Paul was singularly chosen by the ascended Christ as the administrator of the dispensation of grace (Gal 1:11-12; 1 Cor 9:1; Eph 3:2). John was taken in the Spirit to see and describe the events of the Day of the Lord (Rev 1:10). The Bible believer is convinced the Bible is trustworthy because its writers spoke the Word of God by the Spirit of God, the God who cannot lie (Titus 1:2). He has adequately covered in Scripture the entire span of human history by the mouths and pens of His inspired prophets and apostles. From beginning to end, everything He saw fit to reveal to us He has revealed. So we believe it.

However, preterism's main distinguishing feature and doctrinal pillar is that one of the most important events in prophesied world history -- the return of Christ -- came and went in 70 AD with no inspired witness to attest to the fact. Indeed, there is no contemporary source writing of the events of 70 AD that suggests the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome was in reality the wrathful return of Christ, as preterists claim it was. Yet this is a preterist article of faith -- because it IS taken on faith -- that was superimposed upon 70 AD centuries later by both Catholic and protestant theologians who back-read the prophecies of Christ's return into Jerusalem's destruction.

Unlike consistent dispensationalism, no convincing case for preterism can be made from the Bible alone because preterism's key event lacks inspired witness. The few contemporary witnesses preterists do call to testify on preterism's behalf make no direct connection whatsoever between the destruction of Jerusalem and the prophecies regarding the return of Christ. Instead, such connections are purely speculative, provided solely by preterists relying on eisegesis and appeals to mere human writers, many of whom did not know Christ as Savior.

Preterism's complete absence of inspired witness also forces them to resort to desperate speculations. The worst offense is when preterists present their proof-quotes mined from uninspired, nonbiblical sources as being just as authoritative as Scripture itself, and then berate those who refuse to accept these sources as such (a common feature among all cults where the Bible is forced to harmonize with unbiblical sources to prove a false but unquestioned assumptions).

Preterism is a vain philosophy, unsupported and unsupportable by Scripture and indeed doing violence to the Scripture by equating it with uninspired, often lost writers. Preterism is fundamentally false and should be rejected as such.
 
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tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
(Matt 16:28) Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

(Luke 21:32) “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

(Mark 14:62) "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."


Preterism teaches that Jesus meant what He said.

Secular history teaches us that the Romans surrounded Jerusalem, the Jewish Christians fled to the mountains, and then Jerusalem was destroyed, just like Jesus said.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER

(Matt 16:28) Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

(Luke 21:32) “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

(Mark 14:62) "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."


The fact that I have been given SEVEN different explanations just for Luke 21:32, pretty much tells me you Darby followers cannot reconcile the above verses with your Dispensationaism, and prove Preterism wrong.

Not to mention you flip flopped at least once trying to explain "this generation".
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
:chuckle:

70ad- Jerusalem is destroyed
2nd coming- the LORD prevents Jerusalem from being destroyed

(Luke 21:21-22) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

The Jewish Christians left Jerusalem, and fled to the hills between 66AD - 70AD.

Afterwards (as we see in verse 22) the punishment began, which was the fulfillment of all that had been written.

Yet, Darby followers claim it wasn't fulfilled.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
(Luke 21:21-22) Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

The Jewish Christians left Jerusalem, and fled to the hills between 66AD - 70AD.

Afterwards (as we see in verse 22) the punishment began, which was the fulfillment of all that had been written.

Yet, Darby followers claim it wasn't fulfilled.

:chuckle:

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

It was prophesied, and had to happen. It does not match what the prophets said about the second coming.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
I'm the dummy here.

Yes, we know.

I'm trying to help you though.

Would you mind posting the prophecies where Christ Himself destroys Jerusalem?

No one ever said Christ Himself destroyed Jerusalem. The Roman army was used to destroy Jerusalem.

You should try reading the OT. Every time judgement came from God upon a nation, the Lord used an army from another country to do it, yet it was always called "the day of the Lord".
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Would you mind posting the prophecies where Christ Himself destroys Jerusalem?

Like I said earlier, Christ Himself didn't literally destroy Jerusalem, He used the Roman army to do it.

Here is a prophecy from Christ Jesus about the destruction to Jerusalem that would come from the Roman army:

(Luke 19:43-44) The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”
 

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Preterism is a system of Bible interpretation with two main forks. One fork teaches that some or most Bible prophecy - including prophecies regarding the return of Christ - have been fulfilled. The other says all Bible prophecy has been fulfilled. This is the main identifying feature of preterism. As far as Bible believers are concerned, it should also be seen as preterism's fatal weakness.

The writers of the Bible are held by Bible believers to have spoken the very Words of God. Israel's prophets spoke as they were moved by the Spirit of God (Luke 1:70; 2 Pet 1:21). The disciples were eyewitnesses who attested to Christ's ministry, His death and His resurrection (1 Jn 1:2-3; Acts 1:1-2; 4:20). The apostle Paul was singularly chosen by the ascended Christ as the administrator of the dispensation of grace (Gal 1:11-12; 1 Cor 9:1; Eph 3:2). John was taken in the Spirit to see and describe the events of the Day of the Lord (Rev 1:10). The Bible believer is convinced the Bible is trustworthy because its writers spoke the Word of God by the Spirit of God, the God who cannot lie (Titus 1:2). He has adequately covered in Scripture the entire span of human history by the mouths and pens of His inspired prophets and apostles. From beginning to end, everything He saw fit to reveal to us He has revealed. So we believe it.

However, preterism's main distinguishing feature and doctrinal pillar is that one of the most important events in prophesied world history -- the return of Christ -- came and went in 70 AD with no inspired witness to attest to the fact. Indeed, there is no contemporary source writing of the events of 70 AD that suggests the destruction of Jerusalem by Rome was in reality the wrathful return of Christ, as preterists claim it was. Yet this is a preterist article of faith -- because it IS taken on faith -- that was superimposed upon 70 AD centuries later by both Catholic and protestant theologians who back-read the prophecies of Christ's return into Jerusalem's destruction.

Unlike consistent dispensationalism, no convincing case for preterism can be made from the Bible alone because preterism's key event lacks inspired witness. The few contemporary witnesses preterists do call to testify on preterism's behalf make no direct connection whatsoever between the destruction of Jerusalem and the prophecies regarding the return of Christ. Instead, such connections are purely speculative, provided solely by preterists relying on eisegesis and appeals to mere human writers, many of whom did not know Christ as Savior.

Preterism's complete absence of inspired witness also forces them to resort to desperate speculations. The worst offense is when preterists present their proof-quotes mined from uninspired, nonbiblical sources as being just as authoritative as Scripture itself, and then berate those who refuse to accept these sources as such (a common feature among all cults where the Bible is forced to harmonize with unbiblical sources to prove a false but unquestioned assumptions).

Preterism is a vain philosophy, unsupported and unsupportable by Scripture and indeed doing violence to the Scripture by equating it with uninspired, often lost writers. Preterism is fundamentally false and should be rejected as such.

Good Post M
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Like I said earlier, Christ Himself didn't literally destroy Jerusalem, He used the Roman army to do it.

Here is a prophecy from Christ Jesus about the destruction to Jerusalem that would come from the Roman army:

(Luke 19:43-44) The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

Versus

Zech 14
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ***, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness Unto The Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.
 

tetelestai

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Versus

Zech 14
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ***, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness Unto The Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.

All fulfilled in Christ Jesus


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