Why men won't marry you

[1PeaceMaker]

I didn't say marriages between Christians - I said between godly people. Christians have to be cleansed of their sins, born again, etc. if they want a solid marriage.

Godly people don't have hard hearts or get divorced over sin.

And there it is, the no true Scott man's fallacy. Godly people's do get divorced because they are human and they fail.

That's misuse of the fallacy term on your part.

A person safe from sin won't divorce and the Bible says there is a way to live safe from sin.

Sorry you don't see that. Most Christians don't see that, and that's why fornication, adultery and pedophilia are laced throughout most churches.

A 15 year old child in this day and age is not equipped to care for a baby. Nothing you have said causes me to rethink that. Even you agree that she can't do it on her own.

Nobody today is equipped to get along without collective support. Even your food and gas are subsidized.

Society then should step up and make their relationship possible. After all, God did his part to join them together as family. Now it's our turn.

 

[Rusha]

So now a rapist can hurt two people in your world, more than he ever dreamed because now you would insist on fracturing the mother-child bond if the mother is too young, even if the situation was brought on through no fault of her own.

Why would you assume the mother in question does not WANT to put her child up for adoption? Would you try to convince her to not adopt? IF you force her to marry the father, will you also force her to stay with him regardless of his treatment of her and the child?

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Why would you assume the mother in question does not WANT to put her child up for adoption? Would you try to convince her to not adopt? IF you force her to marry the father, will you also force her to stay with him regardless of his treatment of her and the child?

I would never force marriage. That would be like forcing sex and it's actually far less actionable.

The question posed to CM was not "does she want to put the child up for adoption?" It was, should she marry?

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Let's see what Cabinet Maker says to this:

If I'm 25, single, and oops, get pregnant with a boyfriend, would you say I should get married?

 

[CabinetMaker]

That's misuse of the fallacy term on your part.

No, it is a perfect example of the No True Scotsman Fallacy. <-- That's a link. Read it.

A person safe from sin won't divorce and the Bible says there is a way to live safe from sin.

Sorry you don't see that. Most Christians don't see that, and that's why fornication, adultery and pedophilia are laced throughout most churches.

Christians, true Christians do get divorces. Not all of us are as perfect as you. We can't count on our perfection like you can so we count on God's grace and mercy instead.

Nobody today is equipped to get along without collective support. Even your food and gas are subsidized.

Those subsidies are available to all and control prices. I can purchase all the food and gas my family needs. I can pay for our house and our cars and feed our horses. I can help my kids get through college and get established in their lives. I can do all this because I waited to get married and have children until my wife and I were in a position to support ourselves. Neither of us felt that we should depend on our parents for stuff.

Society then should step up and make their relationship possible. After all, God did his part to join them together as family. Now it's our turn.

I am surprised you support welfare.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Let's see what Cabinet Maker says to this:

If I'm 25, single, and oops, get pregnant with a boyfriend, would you say I should get married?

If you are having sex with your boyfriend, he should already be your husband. Godly people don't have oopses.

 

[CabinetMaker]

I would never force marriage. That would be like forcing sex and it's actually far less actionable.

The question posed to CM was not "does she want to put the child up for adoption?" It was, should she marry?

Let me be a little more clear for you, not only should she not get married, she should consider putting the baby up for adoption.

 

[Rusha]

I would never force marriage. That would be like forcing sex and it's actually far less actionable.

The question posed to CM was not "does she want to put the child up for adoption?" It was, should she marry?

Considering the emotional immaturity and unreliability of most teens, no. Are there exceptions to the rule? Certainly. Very few.

Marriage is for adults. Not children.

 

[Rusha]

Let me be a little more clear for you, not only should she not get married, she should consider putting the baby up for adoption.

^ This. The child should be the FIRST priority. Being adopted into a loving, stable home is superior to a scared, young and possibly resentful teenager being forced by her parents to raise the child herself.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

No, it is a perfect example of the No True Scotsman Fallacy. <-- That's a link. Read it.

OK, I understand why you say this. You think I'm coming up with careless ad hoc. That's not what is happening.

This is a situation where our theologies widely differ. No one kept from sin by God sins.

You don't believe God keeps anyone from sinning, hence you don't believe I could have confidence in God to keep my marriage or anyone else's safe.

Christians, true Christians do get divorces.

I guess they didn't let the Lord build the house they call home. Or the marriage.

If a true Christian can have a hard heart than a good tree can bear bad fruit.

Not all of us are as perfect as you. We can't count on our perfection like you can so we count on God's grace and mercy instead.

You don't count on it if you consider marriage to be a coin toss away from divorce.

Those subsidies are available to all and control prices. I can purchase all the food and gas my family needs. I can pay for our house and our cars and feed our horses. I can help my kids get through college and get established in their lives. I can do all this because I waited to get married and have children until my wife and I were in a position to support ourselves. Neither of us felt that we should depend on our parents for stuff.

You mean you don't use welfare so you feel good about using the generalized welfare of a subsidy.

I am surprised you support welfare.

Married couples don't get welfare.

 

[shagster01]

Considering the emotional immaturity and unreliability of most teens, no. Are there exceptions to the rule? Certainly. Very few.

Marriage is for adults. Not children.

What is an adult? Not that long ago 13 year olds were essentially considered adults. Then it was around 16. Both of my grandmas got married at 16. Then 18. Then it was more like 21. Now it's pretty much mid-20's after college.

Why do we keep letting people be children longer?

 

[CabinetMaker]

OK, I understand why you say this. You think I'm coming up with careless ad hoc. That's not what is happening.

This is a situation where our theologies widely differ. No one kept from sin by God sins.

You don't believe God keeps anyone from sinning, hence you don't believe I could have confidence in God to keep my marriage or anyone else's safe.

I believe that there is no sin apart from the law and that Christ completed the law with His death. The law no longer condemns me, but it is my teacher. I don't believe God keeps anybody from sinning, He leaves that to our choice. Which is a very scary thought.

I guess they didn't let the Lord build the house they call home. Or the marriage.

If a true Christian can have a hard heart than a good tree can bear bad fruit.

A failed marriage does not make for a heart hard against God. Your logic fails miserably.

You don't count on it if you consider marriage to be a coin toss away from divorce.

Interesting given that a couple of pages ago in this very thread you said that young brides have the freedom to get out of a bad marriage. You are the one advocating divorce, I am advocating waiting until you are mature enough to build a strong marriage that can weather life's storms.

You mean you don't use welfare so you feel good about using the generalized welfare of a subsidy.

Government subsidies are in place and open to all so I don't see them as welfare in the conventional use of the term. The point is, I can provide for my family whether certain products are subsidized or not. A 15 year old wife and a 16 year old husband can't.

Married couples don't get welfare.

Yet that is what society offers. I would be reluctant to set up a system where young people feel they can get married to get money. The current welfare system has created a couple of generations where young girls start having babies so that they can start collecting their checks. Babies=money. It is all they have ever known in life and it is normal to them so that is how they live. My wife witnessed this first hand when she worked at a pharmacy near the projects in Denver. By age 10 the kids were saying they couldn't wait to have their first baby so they could start collecting their check. And between age 13 and 16, most of these girls were pregnant. Do you think that is what God had in mind? Young girls having multiple babies with multiple men just so they can get money? Do you think welfare for married couples would fare any better.

You argue from the view point of the world you wish we lived in. You ignore the world we actually live in. If you are going to serve Jesus you must learn to meet people where they are in life. It can be messy and ugly and even a little depressing but that is where the need is.

 

[CabinetMaker]

What is an adult? Not that long ago 13 year olds were essentially considered adults. Then it was around 16. Both of my grandmas got married at 16. Then 18. Then it was more like 21. Now it's pretty much mid-20's after college.

Why do we keep letting people be children longer?

Two words: Life Expectancy

 

[shagster01]

Two words: Life Expectancy

Life expectancy makes you mature slower?

 

[Rusha]

What is an adult? Not that long ago 13 year olds were essentially considered adults. Then it was around 16. Both of my grandmas got married at 16. Then 18. Then it was more like 21. Now it's pretty much mid-20's after college.

Why do we keep letting people be children longer?

Different time, different standard. The best way to prepare for a family is to be as stable as possible. At a minimum, that means finishing high school.

I would encourage parents to have their teenagers find part time work after school or on weekends as long as school is their first priority.

Also, I don't see prepping children to marry and have families as the equivalent of preparing them to be adults. One should be capable of living on their own and supporting themselves PRIOR to having dependents who will also need their support and care.

Seriously ... what's the hurry? Outside of the bragging rights to state "I am such a hip, young grandparent", how is it beneficial for children to be ushered out of the home before they are ready?

 

[CabinetMaker]

Life expectancy makes you mature slower?

In a way, yes. There is more to learn and master to make your way in life today than there was in days gone by.

 

[shagster01]

In a way, yes. There is more to learn and master to make your way in life today than there was in days gone by.

There is plenty of time to learn all you need to by 18. All you need to do is put down the TV or playstation remote and learn it.

 

[CabinetMaker]

There is plenty of time to learn all you need to by 18. All you need to do is put down the TV or playstation remote and learn it.

Depends on the career you want. For most jobs, you are right. Engineers, Doctors, Nurses, Pharmacists and other professions cannot be learned by age 18 (except for the very very few gifted souls in our works.) When going into the trades you cannot be a master tradesman ready to start your business by age 18. It takes years to master a trade. And there is even time along the way to play a little play station or watch a movie.

 

[BOLCATS]

Considering the emotional immaturity and unreliability of most teens, no. Are there exceptions to the rule? Certainly. Very few.

Marriage is for adults. Not children.

Children.......you use that word a lot. What is a child in your mind? It seems to be defined by age.

 

[BOLCATS]

What is an adult? Not that long ago 13 year olds were essentially considered adults. Then it was around 16. Both of my grandmas got married at 16. Then 18. Then it was more like 21. Now it's pretty much mid-20's after college.

Why do we keep letting people be children longer?

Someone gets it.