Why men won't marry you

1PeaceMaker

New member
God does not tell us how to run every aspect of our life. He leaves us to figure things out. God doesn't tell us what age we have to be when we marry of fave babies because it is not important to our state of salvation. Besides, God knows that works for families 100, 500, 1000 or 2000 years ago is different from today. God hates divorce. Seems to me that if you love God you would want to avoid divorce. Marriages between people in their 20's and older have a better chance of avoiding divorce. Why wouldn't you want people to avoid something God clearly hates I favor of something that isn't even in scripture?

Marriages between godly people are 100% safe from divorce.

Also, if divorce is such an evil, and forsaking a child is an evil, then why is adoption a good thing?

Children aren't puppies. They all come with a family from the start. A family they will almost surely long for and seek out if snatched away from them at the start of life.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
None. IF it is a multi generational home.


It is their choice and I never said that I would force them to give up their child. If they want to raise their child, they will. Do I think its a good idea? Not generally. But I do say that putting a child up for adoption is a far better alternative than aborting it.

Abortion wasn't even on the table.

The question was would you let the pregnant teen marry, and the answer was more than no, it was she shouldn't be allowed to be a mother.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
You mean 15-25. You said not until the early to mid-twenties should they raise a child.
TH has linked to the statistics. How look at them.

Just because the love isn't artificial doesn't mean the situation is any less artificial. God put the baby in the womb of it's mother. Who would dare usurp what God has joined?

If I were given the opportunity to raise a child as an adoptive mother, I would not want to usurp the mother of my child. I would have to explain that God gave the child two sets of parents and that while tragedy kept them apart, as long as they are all alive, they are family and I wouldn't stop them from seeking out their mother when they were old enough, if I wasn't able to involve her or the father already, as much as I could.
I am not convinced that God will be mad at mother who gives her baby up girls adoption so that her baby has a better life.

What I do with my own kids is not the discussion. My kids aren't that precocious.

If I had a 15 year old, even if she wasn't mature enough to raise her kid until he was 5 or more because she went and got pregnant behind my back, I still wouldn't rip them apart. I would work with what I had. I could raise them both together until she grew into her role as a mother.
It is good you are willing to do that. Many teens do not have that same support making putting the baby up for adoption a far better option than the alternatives.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
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Marriages between godly people are 100% safe from divorce.
The real number is close to 48%. Unless you wish to roll out the No a True Scotsman fallacy.

Also, if divorce is such an evil, and forsaking a child is an evil, then why is adoption a good thing?
Why did the mother give up her baby when King Solomon threatened to cut it in half? A mother doing what she sees as best for her child by sending it to home that us better equiped to love and care for it in a way she cannot is not an evil act. It can be an ultimate act of sacrificial love.

Children aren't puppies. They all come with a family from the start. A family they will almost surely long for and seek out if snatched away from them at the start of life.
Let's see, I know at least five adopted children. They were adopted as babies and they know only one family, their adoptive family. They have a real family that love and care for them and that they love. None of the expressed any burning desire to find birth parents. They might in the future, but they are happy kids with a mom and dad that have always been their mom and dad.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Abortion wasn't even on the table.

The question was would you let the pregnant teen marry, and the answer was more than no, it was she shouldn't be allowed to be a mother.

I never said nor implied any such thing. You are tilting at windmills once again.
 

BOLCATS

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Given the statistics for failed marriages for young brides, it would have to be 100% or better. I would rather my daughters build a relationship based on love and friendship, mutual respect and trust rather than remote risks to health.

These marital traits are not likely in a very young couple? I agree in today's party hard youth culture, the likelihood of a happy lasting marriage is slim. The culture is unlikely to change as long as parents still encourage this hedonistic youth culture.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
TH has linked to the statistics. How look at them.

How (about you) use English....

And TH's point was about the prefrontal cortex, which is not the mind.

I am not convinced that God will be mad at mother who gives her baby up girls adoption so that her baby has a better life.

That's second-guessing God.

It is good you are willing to do that. Many teens do not have that same support making putting the baby up for adoption a far better option than the alternatives.

I thought you would have brought that up rather than pushing adoption.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
These marital traits are not likely in a very young couple? I agree in today's party hard youth culture, the likelihood of a happy lasting marriage is slim. The culture is unlikely to change as long as parents still encourage this hedonistic youth culture.

Good points.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
How (about you) use English....

And TH's point was about the prefrontal cortex, which is not the mind.



That's second-guessing God.



I thought you would have brought that up rather than pushing adoption.
Generally, for a 15 year old, I would still advocate adoption.

As I am not Calvinistic, I am not second guessing God. Besides, how do you know God didn't intend for the child to be adopted.
 

Town Heretic

Out of Order
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No matter the age there will be casualties of love.
Sure. And a disproportionate number of them will be needless, avoidable with a modest bit of waiting.

What doesn't make sense is the idea that we would be better off without those children of the young.
It doesn't make sense to suggest they can't have them at twenty five. And less sense to have them when you're mostly assuring they'll grow up in broken homes.

If you could go back in time and erase all the children and marriages starting before age 25, would we even have a human race?
I don't see how that impacts the here and now and what's demonstrably best, both for people and for kids. And what doesn't tend to be significantly more often than not.

Happiness being a coin toss at best - so we also must consider that there are other issues, like continuing the human race.
Which wouldn't be jeopardized by waiting until your mid twenties.

And the ones eager to marry are like the eager young soldier, giving their best years for the good of society.
But they aren't, either marrying for or providing a good given what I've related above.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
Sure. And a disproportionate number of them will be needless, avoidable with a modest bit of waiting.

What do you mean by needless? I don't think you understand the reason people are driven to marry. Granted, you may have understood your own reasons, but you haven't gone far enough, to assume that perhaps the same feelings you have may actually exist in a younger subset.

Take me, for example. The single life was slowly killing me. That's how it really felt. A slow war against my immune system was being waged. I was sad and lonely a lot. For a long time. It was taking a physical toll on me. I was not under someone's roof, I was out on my own doing my own thing. And I was, in a way, isolated.

I found somebody like me and it changed me. He restored my health and buffered my sanity from the stress of loneliness. I also felt a drive towards becoming a wife and mother. I felt the pull towards that life was draining me.

I know what it means to be ready for it. The fact that I was 18 didn't change how important marriage was to me. I'm glad it worked out, and that God picked my perfect and true soul mate but I had to try or pay the heavy price of a lonely, miserable life.


It doesn't make sense to suggest they can't have them at twenty five. And less sense to have them when you're mostly assuring they'll grow up in broken homes.

I'm glad my husband was born, even though the young marriage that made him fizzled all too soon. I don't think of that union as any kind of mistake or burden on society.

I don't see how that impacts the here and now and what's demonstrably best, both for people and for kids. And what doesn't tend to be significantly more often than not.

I think we know that isolation is a big emotional risk factor for young people and for some it's harder to avoid than for others. What is good for one person with one personality is not going to work out for others. Individualism allows everyone a fair chance to consider what's right for them and choose.

Which wouldn't be jeopardized by waiting until your mid twenties.

It's a lot harder to have 12 kids when you wait until your mid-twenties to start trying. So if you want to have a lot of kids then the sooner you can start the better. And for some women their fertility and/or health may be needlessly jeopardized by waiting. Everyone isn't exactly the same.


But they aren't, either marrying for or providing a good given what I've related above.

But in the example of myself, I was providing a good. The children I had in my late teens and early twenties are very important to me and everyone in their lives. I am still having children, and the goal, for me, is to have as many children as God sees fit to give me in my good health with my willing husband. I wouldn't want to cut off blessings by waiting and not having my first 4 children.

And the good it does (other than the children) is preventing an evil, namely the cruel misery of artificially imposed isolation via arbitrary one-size-fits all standards.

It's not the State's job to tweak divorce rates.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member
The real number is close to 48%. Unless you wish to roll out the No a True Scotsman fallacy.

I didn't say marriages between Christians - I said between godly people. Christians have to be cleansed of their sins, born again, etc. if they want a solid marriage.

Godly people don't have hard hearts or get divorced over sin.

Why did the mother give up her baby when King Solomon threatened to cut it in half? A mother doing what she sees as best for her child by sending it to home that us better equiped to love and care for it in a way she cannot is not an evil act. It can be an ultimate act of sacrificial love.

If the child will die, mercy says give it up. But you are acting like it's that serious if the 15 year old gets to be a mother. You not only wouldn't let her marry when the father wants to be a family and live with the baby and mother, you'd take the child and give it up for adoption. You didn't say you would support multi-generational raising until I prodded it out of you. You didn't give any special qualifiers.
 

BOLCATS

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I see such a huge gap in the philosophical directions different Christians take. This is a breathtaking change from much of what I see on this site which to me is indistinguishable from a secular mindset other than belief in deity.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
I didn't say marriages between Christians - I said between godly people. Christians have to be cleansed of their sins, born again, etc. if they want a solid marriage.

Godly people don't have hard hearts or get divorced over sin.[/qiote] And there it is, the no true Scott man's fallacy. Godly people's do get divorced because they are human and they fail.


If the child will die, mercy says give it up. But you are acting like it's that serious if the 15 year old gets to be a mother. You not only wouldn't let her marry when the father wants to be a family and live with the baby and mother, you'd take the child and give it up for adoption. You didn't say you would support multi-generational raising until I prodded it out of you. You didn't give any special qualifiers.

A 15 year old child in this day and age is not equipped to care for a baby. Nothing you have said causes me to rethink that. Even you agree that she can't do it on her own.
 

1PeaceMaker

New member

If she gets pregnant at age fifteen, should she get married?

No. She should give the child up for adoption.
Don't you think that's cruel?

What about if the teen was raped? Would you also take her child? Trouble on top of trouble!

Don't you think one parent is better than none, and don't you think, if rape is not a factor, that the two parents should unite and raise the child with grandparental supervision until they reach their early to mid twenties? No?

You picked a very surprising reaction to the situation.

I stand by it. Children having and raising children is not a good thing.

So now a rapist can hurt two people in your world, more than he ever dreamed because now you would insist on fracturing the mother-child bond if the mother is too young, even if the situation was brought on through no fault of her own.
 
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