Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

Ben Masada

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Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

1 - Many (most?) Jews (the word translated "Jews" in scripture is more accurately translated Judean)
2 - choose not to accept eternal life because they do not think themselves worthy of it.
3 - What then are the reasons many (most) Gentiles choose not to receive the gift of eternal life?
4 - Paul preached Christ crucified, which for Judeans is a stumbling block and for Gentiles foolishness. I Corinthians 1:24
5 - But for those who choose to believe God's calling, Christ is the power of God and the wisdom of God. I Corinthians 1:25
6 - Are you suggesting that the apostle Paul was wrong to make that statement?

1 - According to whom, you? Even a Jew you are not. Why should a Jew believe you?

2 - Jews choose not to speak about eternal life because they believe God's Word that man cannot live forever. (Gen. 3:22,23) We know much better than to talk about what does not exist.

3 - Probably because they have finally understood that to walk by faith is to walk in the dark while to walk by sight is to walk with understanding. (II Cor. 5:7)

4 - What could a "Christ" crucified do for his People? Nothing as we all know. Certainly Paul preached a "Christ" crucified to feed his policy of Replacement Theology.

5 - I do believe God's calling. Hence, He called Abraham and chose his descendants through Isaac and Jacob to make of them a Kingdom of priest and a holy nation. (Gen. 17:21; Exod. 19:6)

6 - Wrong is an understatement. Paul was a sociopath who didn't think twice when he wanted to lie.
 

aikido7

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Aikido7: John's gospel was written around the first century after Jesus's death. His community of believers were being kicked out of the synagogues and his gospel naturally reflects those conflicts between the Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah and those who did not.

Like you and me, John presented a Jesus that made sense to him. He wanted his readers to realize that his Jesus was on his side, not theirs.

Ben Masada: Sorry Aikido, but John never wrote a word in the NT, let alone a book. John was a Jew and a Jew would never write against his own Faith which was Judaism. Besides, Luke reports about Peter and John as taken by their listeners as two uneducated men. Therefore, how could John an illiterate man be able to write a book? IMHO, the gospel attributed to him was written by a Hellenist former disciple of Paul's.

I am confused. You assert that "John never wrote a word."
How do we know that? What evidence are you using for your claim that "John was illiterate"?


Jesus was a Jew that enlarged the meaning of Judaism. The early followers of Jesus were normative Jews. The difference was they saw Jesus as the messiah, or they believed he said he was divine and they took that erroneous declaration literally.

Scholars have said John's gospel has many features of Greek thought woven in and out of his gospel.

Christianity and Judaism as well did not form in a vacuum. They were aware of the many diverse movements and philosophies of their day and they added parts of them to their own beliefs as they saw fit.

The most notable theft from Greek philosophy and belief was the Christian notion of having both a perishable body and an imperishable soul.

Pure Judaism had no such belief.
 

Ben Masada

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1 - I am confused. You assert that "John never wrote a word."How do we know that? What evidence are you using for your claim that "John was illiterate"?

2 - Jesus was a Jew that enlarged the meaning of Judaism. The early followers of Jesus were normative Jews. The difference was they saw Jesus as the messiah, or they believed he said he was divine and they took that erroneous declaration literally.

3 - Scholars have said John's gospel has many features of Greek thought woven in and out of his gospel.

4 - Christianity and Judaism as well did not form in a vacuum. They were aware of the many diverse movements and philosophies of their day and they added parts of them to their own beliefs as they saw fit.

5 - The most notable theft from Greek philosophy and belief was the Christian notion of having both a perishable body and an imperishable soul. Pure Judaism had no such belief.

1 - Right Aikido, John never wrote a word of the NT. Read Acts 4:13. When Peter and John were preaching the gospel of Jesus in Jerusalem the assembly took them as two unlearned and ignorant men. What's the difference between "unlearned/ignorant men" from illiterate ones? So, unlearned, ignorant or illiterate men do not write books.

2 - No, they did not see Jesus as the Messiah. The idea that Jesus was the Messiah was fabricated by Paul about 30 years later when in a letter to Timothy, Paul revealed the secret that Jesus was of the lineage of David and that he had resurrected was of his - Paul's gospel - It means that there must have existed another gospel at the same time in whose agenda, Jesus was not preached as the Messiah neither that he had resurrected. And I became sure of it when I read II Cor. 11:4-6, 13. And the Pauline secret revealed to his disciple Timothy is in II Tim. 2:8. When the gospels were written, all these doctrines were already down in the letters of Paul to the churches.

3 - Pure fallacy to appeal to Christian scholars to establish a Christian position.

4 - I do not agree. Christianity was born as a result of Hellenistic minds as Paul was from birth the descendant of a well-to-do Hellenistic couple in the city of Tarsus in the Cilicia where he learned in the Platonic Stoic University of Tarsus. Hence he was expert enough to vandalize the Tanach by plagiarizing the Jewish text to enhance the Theology of his Church in Antioch. (Acts 11:26)

5 - Which, as you have mentioned above, it has nothing to do with Judaism. The Jewish truth about soul is taken from Gen. 2:7 when the Lord formed man from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man BECAME a living soul. Since to become is to be and not to have, we don't have souls; we are souls. At death, the body goes back to the dust and the breath of life aka spirit goes back to God Who gave it to man. (Eccles. 12:7) So, soul is simply a synonym with a person and not a different entity. Soul is only the combination of body with the breath of life. When that combination is undone with death, soul becomes as if it never existed.
 

aikido7

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1 - Right Aikido, John never wrote a word of the NT. Read Acts 4:13. When Peter and John were preaching the gospel of Jesus in Jerusalem the assembly took them as two unlearned and ignorant men. What's the difference between "unlearned/ignorant men" from illiterate ones? So, unlearned, ignorant or illiterate men do not write books.
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I am not sure what you are referring to? Is it Paul? Paul was obviously out-voted and was attacked by the Jerusalem church and by some of the communities he wrote letters to.

His pride--which seems considerable--was hurt. He refers to the “pillars” sarcastically as the “super apostles.” There is no indication from the evidence we have that the conflict was ever resolved in Paul’s lifetime. His letters present him, of course, in the best light possible. And there is a growing consensus that Acts is way more belief-based than referring to actual historical events. It serves as positive public relations for the early church.

2 - No, they did not see Jesus as the Messiah. The idea that Jesus was the Messiah was fabricated by Paul about 30 years later when in a letter to Timothy, Paul revealed the secret that Jesus was of the lineage of David and that he had resurrected was of his - Paul's gospel - It means that there must have existed another gospel at the same time in whose agenda, Jesus was not preached as the Messiah neither that he had resurrected. And I became sure of it when I read II Cor. 11:4-6, 13. And the Pauline secret revealed to his disciple Timothy is in II Tim. 2:8. When the gospels were written, all these doctrines were already down in the letters of Paul to the churches.
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It was impossible for the traditional Jewish messiah to be executed as a common criminal.

What is your opinion of the separation of Paul’s letters from his authentic ones and those most scholars consider forgeries?

3 - Pure fallacy to appeal to Christian scholars to establish a Christian position.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One of the areas evident in the new scholarship is a recognition and awareness that Jesus was a Jew and so were most of his followers.
Christian, Jewish, atheist, secular and even Muslim scholars are studying the authentic figure of Jesus.

The best scholars, in my opinion, put their methodology and conjectures up front for peer review and public view.

4 - I do not agree. Christianity was born as a result of Hellenistic minds as Paul was from birth the descendant of a well-to-do Hellenistic couple in the city of Tarsus in the Cilicia where he learned in the Platonic Stoic University of Tarsus. Hence he was expert enough to vandalize the Tanach by plagiarizing the Jewish text to enhance the Theology of his Church in Antioch. (Acts 11:26)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I am not aware of any textual mention of Paul’s family, his childhood or anything else. The Bible says he was a tentmaker and a student of the Torah who studied its precepts and applications “zealously.” But that is all be basically know.

5 - Which, as you have mentioned above, it has nothing to do with Judaism. The Jewish truth about soul is taken from Gen. 2:7 when the Lord formed man from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man BECAME a living soul. Since to become is to be and not to have, we don't have souls; we are souls. At death, the body goes back to the dust and the breath of life aka spirit goes back to God Who gave it to man. (Eccles. 12:7) So, soul is simply a synonym with a person and not a different entity. Soul is only the combination of body with the breath of life. When that combination is undone with death, soul becomes as if it never existed.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Genesis says nothing about a “living soul.” There may have been some midrashic theological overlays that were available to Jews.
I guess I still need some interpretative information that addresses the Greek (and our modern) concept of a “soul” in a corporeal body.
 

SabathMoon

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4 - Who was ordained to eternal life? Eternal life is a Divine attribute that belongs with HaShem only and could never be shared with man. That's the reason why Adam & Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden; to prevent them from eating from the tree of life and live forever. Who said that the Lord changed His mind, Paul?
I wouldn't be surprised. Paul had too much power. The power to make of Jesus the Messiah, the son of God and that he had resurrected. (II Tim. 2:8; and Acts 9:20)
Eternal life is ascension without death: Enoch style. Why is it difficult for you to believe God raised Abel for a corpse into a different bodily entity?
 
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SabathMoon

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1 - According to whom, you? Even a Jew you are not. Why should a Jew believe you?
Because that is the way it is. Your stupid religion doesn't call itself Israelism. Who has the more accurate history?

2 - Jews choose not to speak about eternal life because they believe God's Word that man cannot live forever. (Gen. 3:22,23) We know much better than to talk about what does not exist.
But you are saying it is impossible or immoral for God to have a mankind live forever, with or without punishment.

4 - What could a "Christ" crucified do for his People? Nothing as we all know. Certainly Paul preached a "Christ" crucified to feed his policy of Replacement Theology.
What did a christ crucified not do? Your lame "foreseen" messiah king won't even rise from the dead. His credentials are total crap. Go and read them.

6 - Wrong is an understatement. Paul was a sociopath who didn't think twice when he wanted to lie.
You don't know enough Greek/Koine to substantiate that.
 

SabathMoon

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The immortal soul was stolen form Greek philosophy by both Judaism and Christianity. NEITHER SIDE BELIEVED IN A BODILY AFTERLIFE. There is no such thing as a bodily spirit. Ben Masada doesn't believe in reincarnation either; he believes YHWH to be god of dead things. Christianity made the mistake believing the human breathe to if, contains the mind. So did the Jews of Bar Kochba. But they believe it mortal. Human breathe was mysterious and reincarnated thru theatrics and vantrilloquism.
 

aikido7

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...Jewish truth

As a Christian, I have always consider Jesus's "truth" when he said the best way to regard God is to love him and love one's neighbor.

As a Jew who was pushing the envelope of his faith tradition, Jesus seems to have summed up Judaism pretty thoroughly.

Do you consider that to be the "soul" of Jewish truth as well?
 

Ben Masada

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Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

1 - Right Aikido, John never wrote a word of the NT. Read Acts 4:13. When Peter and John were preaching the gospel of Jesus in Jerusalem the assembly took them as two unlearned and ignorant men. What's the difference between "unlearned/ignorant men" from illiterate ones? So, unlearned, ignorant or illiterate men do not write books.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I am not sure what you are referring to? Is it Paul? Paul was obviously out-voted and was attacked by the Jerusalem church and by some of the communities he wrote letters to.

Oh gosh! I can't believe it! I have just written above and you don't know what I am referring to! I said, "When Peter and John were preaching the gospel of Jesus... I was referring to Peter and John and not Paul. I couldn't refer to Paul, who probably had a degree from the Stoic University of Tarsus. How could he be illiterate? Read again Acts 4:13.

His pride--which seems considerable--was hurt. He refers to the “pillars” sarcastically as the “super apostles.” There is no indication from the evidence we have that the conflict was ever resolved in Paul’s lifetime. His letters present him, of course, in the best light possible. And there is a growing consensus that Acts is way more belief-based than referring to actual historical events. It serves as positive public relations for the early church.

So, the early Church was based on unhistorical facts! Well, you are not too far from the truth.

2 - No, they did not see Jesus as the Messiah. The idea that Jesus was the Messiah was fabricated by Paul about 30 years later when in a letter to Timothy, Paul revealed the secret that Jesus was of the lineage of David and that he had resurrected was of his - Paul's gospel - It means that there must have existed another gospel at the same time in whose agenda, Jesus was not preached as the Messiah neither that he had resurrected. And I became sure of it when I read II Cor. 11:4-6, 13. And the Pauline secret revealed to his disciple Timothy is in II Tim. 2:8. When the gospels were written, all these doctrines were already down in the letters of Paul to the churches.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It was impossible for the traditional Jewish messiah to be executed as a common criminal.

Jesus was not the Jewish Messiah. If you read Prophet Habakkuk 3:13 "The Lord goes forth to save His People; to save His anointed one." That's what the Messiah is, the anointed one of the Lord, aka Israel His People.

What is your opinion of the separation of Paul’s letters from his authentic ones and those most scholars consider forgeries?

No need of such a separation when 80% of the NT is a paraphrase of forgeries.

3 - Pure fallacy to appeal to Christian scholars to establish a Christian position.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One of the areas evident in the new scholarship is a recognition and awareness that Jesus was a Jew and so were most of his followers. Christian, Jewish, atheist, secular and even Muslim scholars are studying the authentic figure of Jesus.

ALL Jesus' followers were Jews. Gentiles he even forbade his disciples to take the gospel of salvation to them, especially Samaritans which I find weird because the Jews had been assigned as light unto the Gentiles. (Isa. 42:6; and Mat. 10:5,6)

The best scholars, in my opinion, put their methodology and conjectures up front for peer review and public view.

4 - I do not agree. Christianity was born as a result of Hellenistic minds as Paul was from birth the descendant of a well-to-do Hellenistic couple in the city of Tarsus in the Cilicia where he learned in the Platonic Stoic University of Tarsus. Hence he was expert enough to vandalize the Tanach by plagiarizing the Jewish text to enhance the Theology of his Church in Antioch. (Acts 11:26)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I am not aware of any textual mention of Paul’s family, his childhood or anything else. The Bible says he was a tentmaker and a student of the Torah who studied its precepts and applications “zealously.” But that is all be basically know.

No, I did not read that view about his family in the NT but, if I don't make a mistake, in the Catholic Encyclopedia. under "Paul and the NT."

5 - Which, as you have mentioned above, it has nothing to do with Judaism. The Jewish truth about soul is taken from Gen. 2:7 when the Lord formed man from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man BECAME a living soul. Since to become is to be and not to have, we don't have souls; we are souls. At death, the body goes back to the dust and the breath of life aka spirit goes back to God Who gave it to man. (Eccles. 12:7) So, soul is simply a synonym with a person and not a different entity. Soul is only the combination of body with the breath of life. When that combination is undone with death, soul becomes as if it never existed.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Genesis says nothing about a “living soul.” There may have been some midrashic theological overlays that were available to Jews. I guess I still need some interpretative information that addresses the Greek (and our modern) concept of a “soul” in a corporeal body.

Please, don't do that! I see that you are answering our posts without checking for the quotations. I gave the quotation in Gen. 2:7 and you say there is nothing in there about a living soul! At least, read the quote when you are not sure. "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; AND MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL." Now, see if that's not written in Gen. 2:7.
 
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Ben Masada

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Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

Eternal life is ascension without death: Enoch style. Why is it difficult for you to believe God raised Abel for a corpse into a different bodily entity?

Not according to the Tanach. You are asking me to believe the opposite of what is written in the Scriptures? If you read Gen. 3:22,23, man could not live forever. That's the reason presented for banning Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden, and the Lord is not like a man to change His mind.
 

intojoy

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Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus


An answer to Christian missionaries

We do; only that we accept him for what he really was and not for what the NT describes him to have been. The question is, why Christians don't accept the real Jesus of Nazareth. Probably because they prefer to walk by faith and not by sight. (II Cor. 5:7) If by sight is to walk with understanding, it is only obvious that by faith is to leave the understanding with Paul.

Ariel.org

Jews for Jesus

Chosen People Ministries

And more!
 

Ben Masada

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1 - Because that is the way it is. Your stupid religion doesn't call itself Israelism. Who has the more accurate history?

2 - But you are saying it is impossible or immoral for God to have a mankind live forever, with or without punishment.

3 - What did a christ crucified not do? Your lame "foreseen" messiah king won't even rise from the dead. His credentials are total crap. Go and read them.

4 - You don't know enough Greek/Koine to substantiate that.

1 - Now, you are showing either a racist personality or an anti-Semitic one, which is the same. I don't think this is allowed in this forum.

2 - I said nothing of that sort. You are adding words to my mouth which were not in my mind. If you want to know where in the Tanach one cannot live forever, read Gen. 3:22,23.

3 - Open your NT and show me an eyewitness that Jesus rose from the dead. Watch for the word "eyewitness" not simply witness. Witness could be from hear-say.

4 - My Bible is not Greek but Hebrew. There is an enormous difference between the NT and the Tanach.
 

Ben Masada

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Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

1 - The immortal soul was stolen form Greek philosophy by both Judaism and Christianity.
2 - NEITHER SIDE BELIEVED IN A BODILY AFTERLIFE.
3 - There is no such thing as a bodily spirit.
4 - Ben Masada doesn't believe in reincarnation either; he believes YHWH to be god of dead things.
5 - Christianity made the mistake believing the human breathe to if, contains the mind. So did the Jews of Bar Kochba. But they believe it mortal. Human breathe was mysterious and reincarnated thru theatrics and vantrilloquism.

1 - Wrong again! There is no such a thing as immortal soul in Judaism.

2 - True! There is no such a thing as bodily afterlife.

3 - Bodily spirit is a paradox. It makes no sense at all.

4 - I have said here more than several times that HaShem is not the God of the dead but of the living only. Read Mark. 12:27)

5 - Now, nothing makes sense to me. Neither grammatically nor historically. Review your post before you send it.
 

Ben Masada

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Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus?

1 - As a Christian, I have always consider Jesus's "truth" when he said the best way to regard God is to love him and love one's neighbor.

2 - As a Jew who was pushing the envelope of his faith tradition, Jesus seems to have summed up Judaism pretty thoroughly.

3 - Do you consider that to be the "soul" of Jewish truth as well?

1 - Do you think Jesus loved the Pharisees when he cursed them 15 times only in Mat. 23:13-33? I don't think so. Unless the guy who wrote the book attributed to Matthew was lying.

2 - Show me what Jesus did which was not proper of a Jew to behave according to his Faith which was Judaism and I'll tell you that it was not Jesus.

3 - Well, Jesus declared that he had come to fulfill and confirm Judaism down to the letter if you read Mat. 5:17-19. Was he wrong?
 

jzeidler

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Why Jews Don't Accept Jesus





An answer to Christian missionaries



We do; only that we accept him for what he really was and not for what the NT describes him to have been. The question is, why Christians don't accept the real Jesus of Nazareth. Probably because they prefer to walk by faith and not by sight. (II Cor. 5:7) If by sight is to walk with understanding, it is only obvious that by faith is to leave the understanding with Paul.


If the New Testament was a bunch of lies about Jesus why did it survive? The New Testament was written while people who met Jesus were still alive and could challenge it. It would be like writing lies about Ronald Reagan, the writings wouldn't survive and definitely wouldn't impact billions of people.
 

egyptianmuslim

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Hey there. _ I was wondering if the Idea that a _ MAN - is prophesied to be coming to Save the Hebrew / jEWISH is really an Old Testament Prophecy / or Idea.

And is there any Scriptures that suggest that God Himself will come and Save them someday. Like in Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of olives.

I support Israel and will always. I love Israel.


At the end

Victory will be with Jews/Judaism

Muslims and Christians will go with wind
 

SabathMoon

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Not according to the Tanach. You are asking me to believe the opposite of what is written in the Scriptures? If you read Gen. 3:22,23, man could not live forever. That's the reason presented for banning Adam & Eve from the Garden of Eden, and the Lord is not like a man to change His mind.
According to the Tenach, Abel was awakened after having been beaten to death. You are most wrong here.
 

SabathMoon

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1 - Wrong again! There is no such a thing as immortal soul in Judaism.
Wrong, some Jews believen in reincarnation. Why do you misrepresent your fellow Jews?

2 - True! There is no such a thing as bodily afterlife.
A pagan Hellenistic Greek idea with no basis, or possibility in fact.

3 - Bodily spirit is a paradox. It makes no sense at all.

4 - I have said here more than several times that HaShem is not the God of the dead but of the living only. Read Mark. 12:27)
Thou still believes him to be a god of dead spirits. Future resurrections are about death, and a lame promise of resurrection.

5 - Now, nothing makes sense to me. Neither grammatically nor historically. Review your post before you send it.
During the Bar Kochbar era, passages about the afterlife were expunged from the Tenach. However, if Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are dead, then YHWH the God wouldn't their god.
 
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