So, you like Numbers?
Why I do not fear the end time
- Thread starter iouae
- Start date
iouae
Well-known member
Yes, it has talking donkeys, like Shrek (Numbers 22:28)
Greetings again iouae,
Kind regards
Trevor
I could agree with the concept that “the Lord’s day” here is the future Kingdom, but this would not exclude the prophecies being from the time of John the Apostle unto the day of Jesus’ Apocalypse, that is when he returns from heaven to establish his Kingdom. It is in the same sense that we will understand the details of prophecies after they are fulfilled.
History and prophecy go together. The prophecy about Bethlehem in Micah 5:1-2 and the few hints in Micah concerning a humble birth finds its fulfilment in a remarkable way in the events of the birth of Jesus. We would be very poor if we did not have the history of these events concerning the humble birth of Jesus.
Some things are future, but I consider it very sad if we did not have encouragement and warning if necessary for the last 2000 years.
I imagine that there are many fanciful interpretations. Could I suggest that I am not sure that your interpretation or anticipation fits the details of Revelation 17.
We need to make our own choices on the basis of our environment, background and reasoning. I choose the continuous historical approach.
I cannot see that I will ever reverse my present understanding of Daniel. I certainly have a lot more to learn, but what I said about Daniel 8 and the 2300 days has been a thorough-going conviction for a long time. Other explanations of the 2300, especially futuristic seem fanciful to me.
Kind regards
Trevor
iouae
Well-known member
How was the sanctuary cleansed in 1967?
Dan 8:13
Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
Especially as Gabriel says this is for the end time.
Dan 8:17
So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
I presume you are going to point to the 6 day war, and Jerusalem retaken.
I don't consider this to be the sanctuary cleansed. Especially as the Dome of the Rock still sits on the temple mount, and there is no sanctuary.
If it were fulfilled in 1967, I would be disappointed.
Last edited:
Greetings again iouae,
The principal event or vision of Daniel 8 is the overthrow of the Persian Ram by the Grecian Goat. This occurred in BC334-333. The significance of the change was a shift from the Persians who supported the Jews in their return and their worship, to a Gentile power which was at times antagonistic to the Jews and their religion. The Romans, successors to the Greeks, also were at times antagonistic. The expression used is “Trodden down” and this expresses military subjugation, and this is usually followed by political and sometimes religious subjugation. We have yet to see the full outworking of a reversal of political and religious subjugation.
Jesus alludes to Daniel 8:13-14 in the following, setting a correct understanding of Daniel’s prophecy.
Luke 21:20-24 (KJV): 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
The Persians did not tread down Jerusalem, but supported the Temple restoration. Thus the 2300 commences with Alexander the Great. Jesus mentions a longer period than the 2300 years. The times of the Gentiles commenced with the Babylonian captivity, and will not be complete until the King of the North is defeated Ezekiel 38, Daniel 11:40-45. I believe that we are already in the “end times”, and 1967 is one of the steps. It is significant that the world is focussing on Jerusalem, and the events of 1967 were instrumental in creating the situation where now the nations seek to become involved in the status of Jerusalem, especially the Old City where Jesus was crucified. The city belongs to Jesus Matthew 5:35.
Kind regards
Trevor
I appreciate the invitation to comment on Daniel 8 and the 2300 days. It would take too much to explain every aspect, but the following is a start. Yes Jerusalem was militarily retaken in 1967. This was a reversal to some extent of the events of AD70 when Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed and the people taken into captivity.
The principal event or vision of Daniel 8 is the overthrow of the Persian Ram by the Grecian Goat. This occurred in BC334-333. The significance of the change was a shift from the Persians who supported the Jews in their return and their worship, to a Gentile power which was at times antagonistic to the Jews and their religion. The Romans, successors to the Greeks, also were at times antagonistic. The expression used is “Trodden down” and this expresses military subjugation, and this is usually followed by political and sometimes religious subjugation. We have yet to see the full outworking of a reversal of political and religious subjugation.
Jesus alludes to Daniel 8:13-14 in the following, setting a correct understanding of Daniel’s prophecy.
Luke 21:20-24 (KJV): 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
The Persians did not tread down Jerusalem, but supported the Temple restoration. Thus the 2300 commences with Alexander the Great. Jesus mentions a longer period than the 2300 years. The times of the Gentiles commenced with the Babylonian captivity, and will not be complete until the King of the North is defeated Ezekiel 38, Daniel 11:40-45. I believe that we are already in the “end times”, and 1967 is one of the steps. It is significant that the world is focussing on Jerusalem, and the events of 1967 were instrumental in creating the situation where now the nations seek to become involved in the status of Jerusalem, especially the Old City where Jesus was crucified. The city belongs to Jesus Matthew 5:35.
Kind regards
Trevor
iouae
Well-known member
Trevor, I am looking into what you say, but it will take some time since I am not used to looking at it your way. In the meantime, I believe the 2300 start when the man of sin is revealed, and ends when he is killed.
2Th 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed [START], whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming[END OF 2300]:
2Th 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.
But I am not even sure what I believe since it has been so long. But I am very inclined to the KISS principle of keeping things simple.
iouae
Well-known member
There is a new date for the end time floating around and that is 2022-2029.
I have not read the argument for this date, and I don't need to. Its garbage. All date setting is nonsense.
Revelation and Matt 24 give us the countdown to liftoff to the end times.
This is so clear and so indisputable that you are not going to need a date to know the end time. The signs will be there. What are they?
1) Religious deception (Matt 24:4, white horse, 1st seal) - not the end time
2) War (Matt 24:6, red horse, 2nd seal) - still not the end time.
3) Famine (Matt 24:7, black horse, 3rd seal) - still not the end time
4) Great dying of 1/4 of the world from pestilence or 1.5 billion people (Matt 24:7-8, pale horse, 4th seal) - beginning of the end time, but still not the end time.
5) Persecution of Christians or Great Tribulation by Mr. 666 (Matt 24:9, 5th seal) - we are into the end time the moment Mr. 666 arrives on the scene and begins persecuting Christians, enforcing his mark, nobody able to buy or sell without it).
Now how could one miss the above?
I have not read the argument for this date, and I don't need to. Its garbage. All date setting is nonsense.
Revelation and Matt 24 give us the countdown to liftoff to the end times.
This is so clear and so indisputable that you are not going to need a date to know the end time. The signs will be there. What are they?
1) Religious deception (Matt 24:4, white horse, 1st seal) - not the end time
2) War (Matt 24:6, red horse, 2nd seal) - still not the end time.
3) Famine (Matt 24:7, black horse, 3rd seal) - still not the end time
4) Great dying of 1/4 of the world from pestilence or 1.5 billion people (Matt 24:7-8, pale horse, 4th seal) - beginning of the end time, but still not the end time.
5) Persecution of Christians or Great Tribulation by Mr. 666 (Matt 24:9, 5th seal) - we are into the end time the moment Mr. 666 arrives on the scene and begins persecuting Christians, enforcing his mark, nobody able to buy or sell without it).
Now how could one miss the above?
Greetings again iouae,
As far as knowing events beforehand, one prophetic commentator in the late 1800s based upon the 2300 of Daniel 8 stated that the Jews would capture Jerusalem in the spring of 1967. To reveal my age, I also attended a Bible Class in 1965 where the dates BC334-331 were connected to the 2300 to state that great things would soon happen in the Holy Land, and the period 1966-1969 was stated. I still have my pencil notes in my Bible margin. Also one of our pamphlets issued in December 1966 had a pictorial representation, stating that the focus of attention should be on the Holy Land, and not Vietnam, and the writer was drawing attention to the final conflict from Ezekiel 38. The world did shift some of its attention to the Holy Land for a short while. Jerusalem is now in the news again, but most probably it will settle down, as Ezekiel 38 and Daniel 11:40-45 have a few more details yet to develop before it can be fulfilled. We will need to patient, watching and waiting for the Lord’s return as Revelation 16:15 indicates that Jesus will come to his household before the full development of Armageddon.
I connect 2 Thessalonians 2:7-9 with Daniel 7, not Daniel 8. It speaks of the falling away that started in the times of the Apostles, but did not fully develop because of the defense of the Truth by the Apostles and some of their immediate successors. The other restraining force was the Pagan Roman Empire, but once overcome by Constantine, the Man of Sin, the Papacy was fully developed and revealed. After Armageddon Revelation 16:12-16, the Papacy will not repent Revelation 16:21, nor will he submit to Christ, and the Man of Sin, the Pope at that time, will oppose Christ as depicted in Revelation 17:12-14. So at this time I will leave you with your end-time predictions and futurism. My impression is that many with these views will side with the Papacy against Christ.
All of the above is why I do not fear the end times, but my only fear is whether I will be found worthy at that time, because of my many failings. On the other hand I have been greatly encouraged by the gentle hand of my God, the Father and His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, in my life.
Kind regards
Trevor
I appreciate your response. For my part I see a difference between Daniel 7 and 8. Daniel 7 describes more the Western aspect of the Roman Empire and the little horn is the Papacy. The emphasis then is more on the religious aspect. Daniel 8 starts with the conflict between Greece and Persia, but then progresses to the Roman Empire, but this describes more the Eastern aspect of the Roman Empire. The emphasis then in Daniel 8 is more on the military aspect. You may object, but I parallel the latter verses of Daniel 8 with Daniel 11:40-45. I see this initial invasion of the Holy Land as preceding the final revelation of the Man of Sin. He will be revealed after Armageddon, after Jesus has defeated the King of the North. Another reinforcement of my understanding of Daniel 8 is the emphasis of the speed, persistence and success of Alexander's conquest. The aspects of the speed, persistence and success of the start of the 2300, can be compared to the same with the war, the end of the 2300 and the reversal of the events in BC334-333, that is now known as the Six Day War.
As far as knowing events beforehand, one prophetic commentator in the late 1800s based upon the 2300 of Daniel 8 stated that the Jews would capture Jerusalem in the spring of 1967. To reveal my age, I also attended a Bible Class in 1965 where the dates BC334-331 were connected to the 2300 to state that great things would soon happen in the Holy Land, and the period 1966-1969 was stated. I still have my pencil notes in my Bible margin. Also one of our pamphlets issued in December 1966 had a pictorial representation, stating that the focus of attention should be on the Holy Land, and not Vietnam, and the writer was drawing attention to the final conflict from Ezekiel 38. The world did shift some of its attention to the Holy Land for a short while. Jerusalem is now in the news again, but most probably it will settle down, as Ezekiel 38 and Daniel 11:40-45 have a few more details yet to develop before it can be fulfilled. We will need to patient, watching and waiting for the Lord’s return as Revelation 16:15 indicates that Jesus will come to his household before the full development of Armageddon.
I connect 2 Thessalonians 2:7-9 with Daniel 7, not Daniel 8. It speaks of the falling away that started in the times of the Apostles, but did not fully develop because of the defense of the Truth by the Apostles and some of their immediate successors. The other restraining force was the Pagan Roman Empire, but once overcome by Constantine, the Man of Sin, the Papacy was fully developed and revealed. After Armageddon Revelation 16:12-16, the Papacy will not repent Revelation 16:21, nor will he submit to Christ, and the Man of Sin, the Pope at that time, will oppose Christ as depicted in Revelation 17:12-14. So at this time I will leave you with your end-time predictions and futurism. My impression is that many with these views will side with the Papacy against Christ.
All of the above is why I do not fear the end times, but my only fear is whether I will be found worthy at that time, because of my many failings. On the other hand I have been greatly encouraged by the gentle hand of my God, the Father and His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, in my life.
Kind regards
Trevor
iouae
Well-known member
Trevor
Try something out if you don't mind. Wherever you see "he" or "him" substitute (Mr.666).
Does this sound reasonable now?
And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him(Mr.666): and the king of the north shall come against him(Mr.666) like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he(Mr.666) shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

Dan 11:41
He(Mr.666) shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his(Mr.666) hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Dan 11:42
He(Mr.666) shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.

Dan 11:43
But he(Mr.666) shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his(Mr.666) steps.

Dan 11:44
But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him(Mr.666): therefore he(Mr.666) shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.

Dan 11:45
And he(Mr.666) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he(Mr.666) shall come to his end, and none shall help him(Mr.666).
If this is the correct interpretation, what do you learn from this?
I feel you are quite right about the importance of Alexander the Great.
My belief is that the same demon spirit that was in Alexander, will be in Mr. 666.
This spirit, called "the beast" is currently locked away underground. Hence this spirit WAS, IS (locked away), and IS TO COME (out of the pit, with attitude, and recommissioned to do what Alexander did back then).
Greetings again iouae,
Kind regards
Trevor
I do not accept this as the correct interpretation, as I do not believe that the King of the North is Mr.666. As stated I believe that the King of the North will be mainly a military power, identified in location north of Israel, similar to the Eastern Roman Empire. When defeated I believe that Mr.666 will appear, mainly a religious power and is identified with the Western Roman Empire, similar to the 10 horn locations after the decline of the Roman Empire.
I find these comments fanciful, and far outside the way I view these things.
Kind regards
Trevor
Jared Kushner's building is 666 Fifth Avenue
iouae
Well-known member
Its a consistent way to interpret "he".
And when one does, it tells one who Mr. 666 is.
Mr 666 fights the N, the S, worries about the E making him the W.
The West is what supports Mr. 666 and includes all we call the West today, including all the old Roman empire, and the USA.
I think you guys are scaredy cats of the end of days. You might take the mark to get a bowl of soup.
iouae
Well-known member
When I read the "faith chapter" or Hebrews 11, it describes the exploits of the faithful men of old.
It ends with ...
Heb 11:37
They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38
(Of whom the world was not worthy) : they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth
I can recognise who the rest of Hebrews 11 is speaking about, but searching my memory, I cannot think of OT folks who fit the highlighted description.
I am thus convinced that it is a prophecy for the end time.
Those who would escape the mark of the Beast will have to flee to the mountains, dens, caves where they will (future) be in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Thus, I have prepared mentally for life in a cave.
I have watched Doomsday Preppers and have copied their technique of making fire using a bow drill and I can make rope and cordage from the plants in my garden.
If I was a serious prepper, I would prepare a cave or underground bunker and stock it with provisions so that instead of having "sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;" I could "bug out" with tinned beans and antibiotics as well.
We are even told when to flee to our "bug out" cave...
Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains
The persecution and Great Tribulation will begin in Jerusalem and spread around the globe. All those not accepting Mr. 666's mark will be enslaved and killed. The only place they can try to escape Mr. 666 is in the mountains and wilderness, off the grid, away from other humans.
It ends with ...
Heb 11:37
They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Heb 11:38
(Of whom the world was not worthy) : they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth
I can recognise who the rest of Hebrews 11 is speaking about, but searching my memory, I cannot think of OT folks who fit the highlighted description.
I am thus convinced that it is a prophecy for the end time.
Those who would escape the mark of the Beast will have to flee to the mountains, dens, caves where they will (future) be in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
Thus, I have prepared mentally for life in a cave.
I have watched Doomsday Preppers and have copied their technique of making fire using a bow drill and I can make rope and cordage from the plants in my garden.
If I was a serious prepper, I would prepare a cave or underground bunker and stock it with provisions so that instead of having "sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;" I could "bug out" with tinned beans and antibiotics as well.
We are even told when to flee to our "bug out" cave...
Mat 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
Mat 24:16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains
The persecution and Great Tribulation will begin in Jerusalem and spread around the globe. All those not accepting Mr. 666's mark will be enslaved and killed. The only place they can try to escape Mr. 666 is in the mountains and wilderness, off the grid, away from other humans.
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
What is the longest you've gone without food?
iouae
Well-known member
48 hours. Why?
WatchmanOnTheWall
Well-known member
Wow that's much more than me. I don't think I've gone a day without. i just ask because this is one of things that I would/will not like about it, as most people will likely experienced extreme hunger. It can drive people insane. Included with this is the distinct possibility that clean water will also become scarce.